Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[yorksrob]

I was referring as to how they might have got rid of the small 155 fleet not a comment on Northern's overall fleet capacity.

This thread seems to have degenerated into a discussion about Pacers, OK I know some people seem to like them but I will be glad to see them go and perhaps we could get back on topic with regard to Northern Refurbishments which doesn't include Pacers.

Yes, but you can't very well increase capacity if you're getting of rolling stock before you've sourced enough to cover it and provide for the increase.

 

[driver_m]

Are those two 319s at Crewe coming to Northern? (Assuming they're still there)

Presumably the plain white sets have to go back for finishing off.

 

[DJH1971]

Are those two 319s at Crewe coming to Northern? (Assuming they're still there)

Presumably the plain white sets have to go back for finishing off.

Noticed them as well.

Just about to ask the same thing.

 

[northwichcat]

The stock is life expired ,

I notice you've removed the claim about the cost and timescale for refurbishing Pacers, probably just as well considering Sprinters are requiring a lot of time consuming anti-corrosion work to be done to them.

What needs to be remembered is a certain former Porterbrook worker writes for Modern Railways and wrote an article saying how it was viable for 143s and 144s to be reformed in to 4 car units but at the same time claimed VivaRail's proposal for D-Trains was a 'late April's fool joke.'

 

[northwichcat]

Northern are repeating their claim that the Chapman seats on the ex-FNW 150s are new on Twitter, so I've just submitted a complaint to the ASA.

 

[Loop & Link]

What an exciting life you must lead

 

[Bantamzen]

Northern are repeating their claim that the Chapman seats on the ex-FNW 150s are new on Twitter, so I've just submitted a complaint to the ASA.

I don't wish to be the pedant here, but is Northern's Twitter feed really covered by ASA?

 

[northwichcat]

I don't wish to be the pedant here, but is Northern's Twitter feed really covered by ASA?

ASA say they cover social media.

 

[Bantamzen]

ASA say they cover social media.

OK fair enough, although I looking briefly at their FAQs it does seem to suggest that they might not cover all aspects:

https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/remit-social-media.html

While the Code covers some material on a company’s own social media channels it doesn’t necessarily cover everything in such space. The main principles for determining whether specific material on a company’s own social media channel falls within the scope of the code are the same as for a company’s own website, i.e. is the material directly connected to the supply or transfer of goods, services, opportunities or gifts or a direct solicitation of donations

As to whether the new 150 seats can be considered "new", well the user interface, i.e. covers certainly are and they at least look a lot better than the older ones (I saw them on 150 142 when it was parked in P4 Leeds the other day), and if I'm honest as a passenger I wouldn't feel cheated if they turned up on a unit I was on. But I guess its all subjective.

 

[northwichcat]

Northern have repeatedly claimed they have modernised the train by giving it new seats. The seats are 18 years old and weren't fitted by or on behalf of Northern or Arriva.

 

[Bantamzen]

Northern have repeatedly claimed they have modernised the train by giving it new seats. The seats are 18 years old and weren't fitted by or on behalf of Northern or Arriva.

Well good luck with the complaint, I'm not sure there is much ASA can or will do other than ask Northern to change the wording from "new seats" to "new covers", and I'm even less sure than other than here it will make any great difference in the big scheme of things.

 

[Halish Railway]

Are there any 319's left in Northern Electrics livery? Also how is the FCC seat situation going?

 

[Loop & Link]

None left now.

361 have gone to Wolverton for refresh/repaint into Northern livery

 

[Mordac]

Well good luck with the complaint, I'm not sure there is much ASA can or will do other than ask Northern to change the wording from "new seats" to "new covers", and I'm even less sure than other than here it will make any great difference in the big scheme of things.

Someone will no longer be wrong on the internet.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Someone will no longer be wrong on the internet.

There is a difference between making a mistake and deceiving/lying.

 

[Geeves]

As far as the average passenger is concerned the 'interface' between passenger and seat is new. Do you think it would be wise for Northern to post a break down of individual seat components that have been replaced, so that passengers cannot accuse of the company of "deceiving/lying"?

 

[mikemcniven]

As far as the average passenger is concerned the 'interface' between passenger and seat is new. Do you think it would be wise for Northern to post a break down of individual seat components that have been replaced, so that passengers cannot accuse of the company of "deceiving/lying" or people to going to the ASA?

I totally agree, besides it's not an advertisement so nothing the ASA would do anyway as it's not a promoted post on either social media channels.

Maybe it could have been worded better as "Refurbished" new works too as technically what you sit on is new.

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Like new" would be fair - that sounds good while not implying new seats, as a 150/2 like new would have Ashbourne seats.

 

[brel york]

The LM 150s have been in wabtec for Corrosion Work and new floor/ Lino fitted , they will be coming back to have the prm work done , I have the dates predicted if required

 

[northwichcat]

As far as the average passenger is concerned the 'interface' between passenger and seat is new. Do you think it would be wise for Northern to post a break down of individual seat components that have been replaced, so that passengers cannot accuse of the company of "deceiving/lying"?

So if a bed was listed as new on eBay you would think it would be OK for it to have a 20 year old base and a brand new mattress and headboard?

 

[Bantamzen]

So if a bed was listed as new on eBay you would think it would be OK for it to have a 20 year old base and a brand new mattress and headboard?

Are passengers buying the seats on Ebay? Sorry, but you are comparing apples with pears. Most people will see new(ish) seats and leave it at that. I could understand you complaint if any ticket says "includes new seats", but it doesn't. And for the next couple of years it will be a lottery as to whether you get an old seat, a refurbished one or indeed a brand new one. Northern passengers are not being mis-sold anything here.

 

[northwichcat]

How are passengers getting better seats if the only improvement is the seat covers are slightly newer and cleaner?

Do Northern think tweeting repeatedly the picture of the new interior and claiming they are new seats will attract more passengers? If they are then surely that is false advertising. If not why are they are bothering to do it? 99.9% of people won't care what the interior of a train looks like if it isn't being used on the service(s) they will use.

If Northern do replace the seating on the ex-FNW 156s with brand new and upcycle the old seats and put them in 150s which currently have Ashbourne seating they can claim the change in seats is part of modernising the 150s, as the upcycled seats will be newer than what was in them previously. However, with the ex-FNW 150s they've done little more than what the old Northern franchise did to the seats, when old Northern were criticised for not doing enough with their train interiors.

Filling out the form on the ASA site takes 90 seconds. I imagine you've spent more time telling me why I shouldn't bother than I spent bothering!

 

[Bantamzen]

How are passengers getting better seats if the only improvement is the seat covers are slightly newer and cleaner?

You've answered your own question there!

Do Northern think tweeting repeatedly the picture of the new interior and claiming they are new seats will attract more passengers? If they are then surely that is false advertising. If not why are they are bothering to do it? 99.9% of people won't care what the interior of a train looks like if it isn't being used on the service(s) they will use.

How is it false advertising? If that is generally the style and look they are going for with their refurbishments then taking a picture of inside one seasons pretty reasonable. All they are doing is showing they are making some improvements on a rolling basis.

If Northern do replace the seating on the ex-FNW 156s with brand new and upcycle the old seats and put them in 150s which currently have Ashbourne seating they can claim the change in seats is part of modernising the 150s, as the upcycled seats will be newer than what was in them previously. However, with the ex-FNW 150s they've done little more than what the old Northern franchise did to the seats, when old Northern were criticised for not doing enough with their train interiors.

I think it has long been established on this thread that the initial refurbishments were not up to the standards that Arriva had hoped for. So it remains to be seen what will be the final generic design. As with a few things with this current franchise, things can change.

Filling out the form on the ASA site takes 90 seconds. I imagine you've spent more time telling me why I shouldn't bother than I spent bothering!

I don't doubt it, but the length of time posting wasn't the only point.

 

[northwichcat]

You've answered your own question there!

Really? Judging by most passenger comments most people want seats that are comfortable to sit in, aren't in 3+2 formation and have sufficient leg room. Changing the seat covers addresses none of those concerns.

 

[MG11]

I was on a Northern 158 recently that had a refurbished vestibule but the saloon was un-touched, apart from the PIS, which was in full working order. I am quite impressed by the speed these have been rolled out.

 

[Bantamzen]

Really? Judging by most passenger comments most people want seats that are comfortable to sit in, aren't in 3+2 formation and have sufficient leg room. Changing the seat covers addresses none of those concerns.

Do the Twitter feeds imply a change of configuration? I didn't get that impression if I'm honest. Do you think it would be a good idea to reduce seating capacity at the moment? Or should should such re-configuration work take place when they have have some considerable increase in capacity available? I agree 3+2 can be uncomfortable, but I would still rather squeeze into that layout than stand for a journey's length.

 

[northwichcat]

Do the Twitter feeds imply a change of configuration? I didn't get that impression if I'm honest.

No but you implied just 20 minutes ago that passengers are getting better seats just by getting new, cleaner seat covers. I'm disagreeing with you said not what Northern said.

 

[Bantamzen]

No but you implied just 20 minutes ago that passengers are getting better seats just by getting new, cleaner seat covers. I'm disagreeing with you said not what Northern said.

If they are new, or newer they are by proxy at least a bit better, yes or no?

 

[brel york]

I love seating lol

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Rather that than simply referring to Chapmans or Ashbournes or Cholmondeley-Featherstonehaughs or whatever... though in the example given, "original seating" will suffice.