Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[47802]

I would say your most likely correct, would be nice to see an inter regional sub fleat of 150s given an ATW style interior

Well yes but I suspect the majority of 150 work is going to be aimed at more suburban routes, so a longer distance type spec in 150's doesn't really make a lot of sense, when Northern will have a significant fleet of 156's, 158's and new 195's that can fill that longer distance/inter regional role, but the Bentham route isn't really a high priority route so maybe it will have to make do with 150's maybe it will get something better who knows, of course to some degree Northern currently work on the capacity of the train rather than quality and maybe that will still apply on Non Connect routes in future.

 

[CosherB]

Maybe your memory is short but before the country was as deskilled as it is today so much of the trains were designed and made by BR or the various connected divisions, hard to believe we got to where we are today from that :roll:

Some very talented and skilled engineers worked at BR. I am of the opinion that BREL built stock was far, far cheaper than off the self stock. The railway of today is not as frugal as it used to be.

Nothing wrong with my memory mate. Please remember that the world has moved on since 1978, and the world you vocalise no longer exists, so there isn't any point harking on about it through your rose-tinted glasses on this thread, or any other for that matter.

Vote Corbyn on 8th June!

 

[cjmillsnun]

Oy leave my darling pacers alone. Which service did you get yesturday? I know the 10:14 Leeds Hayshom and return on a Saturday is booked one

The sooner your darling pacers are baked bean cans the better. Non bogie stock should not form the basis for passenger cars.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Maybe your memory is short but before the country was as deskilled as it is today so much of the trains were designed and made by BR or the various connected divisions, hard to believe we got to where we are today from that :roll:

Some very talented and skilled engineers worked at BR. I am of the opinion that BREL built stock was far, far cheaper than off the self stock. The railway of today is not as frugal as it used to be.

The pacers maybe were, however off the shelf will always be cheaper than bespoke of the same standard. That's a big reason why there are so many leccystars.

 

[Frothy]

Well yes but I suspect the majority of 150 work is going to be aimed at more suburban routes, so a longer distance type spec in 150's doesn't really make a lot of sense, when Northern will have a significant fleet of 156's, 158's and new 195's that can fill that longer distance/inter regional role, but the Bentham route isn't really a high priority route so maybe it will have to make do with 150's maybe it will get something better who knows, of course to some degree Northern currently work on the capacity of the train rather than quality and maybe that will still apply on Non Connect routes in future.

I was imagining that the Bentham Line might see some 158s given Northern will end up with so many

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[darloscott]

I was imagining that the Bentham Line might see some 158s given Northern will end up with so many

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Majority of it will probably be run with whatever is spare between the peaks, even the 0819 can run a doubled peak journey into Leeds then split to send a unit to Morecambe & back while one stays on say Harrogates.

 

[Leyland155]

The one I was on today, it was amazing how much water the flush managed to use without actually having the power to flush any solids away. It was more like a turd Jacuzzi than a water closet.

It's interesting that you should mention lavatory improvements as a Northern 319 I travelled on today (one of the ones with the refurbished toilet) has a button which activates a sort of mini-flush to clear any, lets say, 'issues' with the toilet pan before use. A poor quality photo is attached, and no, I don't normally make a habit of taking pictures of toilet fixtures!

 

[Blindtraveler]

I wonder what the tactile marking is on this new button as to someone like myself it could potentially get confusing with 2 flush controlls plus the miriad of door, water and dryer controlls and the all important do not press alarm.

 

[railfan100]

Nothing wrong with my memory mate. Please remember that the world has moved on since 1978, and the world you vocalise no longer exists, so there isn't any point harking on about it through your rose-tinted glasses on this thread, or any other for that matter.

Vote Corbyn on 8th June!

A number of sources over the years have detailed that the cost of doing any work or improvements on the UK network under privatisation are three to four times what they were under British Rail, inflation included.

The current over complex flawed TOC operating model mess has clearly failed although in a dumbed down society perhaps not enough people notice or care.

 

[simon7929]

156454 out today in new livery. Think it's on MBR-WTB services. Saw it at Middlesbrough around 1025 looking vey shiny.

 

[Leyland155]

I wonder what the tactile marking is on this new button as to someone like myself it could potentially get confusing with 2 flush controlls plus the miriad of door, water and dryer controlls and the all important do not press alarm.

It is a very important point you raise. The new button displays the top of a disinfectant spray bottle (at least, its implied that's what it is!) with the regular flush button having the standard 'F'. The full flush button is positioned slightly below the other one, presumably in its standard position, but I agree that it does add to the confusion.

 

[Bornin1980s]

A report in the latest issue of Today's Railways UK said that refurbished units would now all be getting new seats. This, of course, opens up the debate about seats again, and which one the survey. The report provided a rather bizarre answer, saying that there had been no overall winner (in contradiction of the Modern Railways report on the survey), and that the new seat would combine features of all three. This doesn't make sense, as two seat manufacturers were represented. According to Modern Railways report, the FISA seat was the overall winner, and the two Fainsa seats were among the hardest and least popular available today. But then, is it even legal to give modern trains softer seats than you find in a 185 at the moment?

 

[yorksrob]

A report in the latest issue of Today's Railways UK said that refurbished units would now all be getting new seats. This, of course, opens up the debate about seats again, and which one the survey. The report provided a rather bizarre answer, saying that there had been no overall winner (in contradiction of the Modern Railways report on the survey), and that the new seat would combine features of all three. This doesn't make sense, as two seat manufacturers were represented. According to Modern Railways report, the FISA seat was the overall winner, and the two Fainsa seats were among the hardest and least popular available today. But then, is it even legal to give modern trains softer seats than you find in a 185 at the moment?

Perhaps the survey should have been overseen by the electoral commission

 

[61653 HTAFC]

A report in the latest issue of Today's Railways UK said that refurbished units would now all be getting new seats. This, of course, opens up the debate about seats again, and which one the survey. The report provided a rather bizarre answer, saying that there had been no overall winner (in contradiction of the Modern Railways report on the survey), and that the new seat would combine features of all three. This doesn't make sense, as two seat manufacturers were represented. According to Modern Railways report, the FISA seat was the overall winner, and the two Fainsa seats were among the hardest and least popular available today. But then, is it even legal to give modern trains softer seats than you find in a 185 at the moment?

In the case of the 158s I must urge Northern management to reconsider. Fat lot of good it'll do... :roll:

 

[47802]

A report in the latest issue of Today's Railways UK said that refurbished units would now all be getting new seats. This, of course, opens up the debate about seats again, and which one the survey. The report provided a rather bizarre answer, saying that there had been no overall winner (in contradiction of the Modern Railways report on the survey), and that the new seat would combine features of all three. This doesn't make sense, as two seat manufacturers were represented. According to Modern Railways report, the FISA seat was the overall winner, and the two Fainsa seats were among the hardest and least popular available today. But then, is it even legal to give modern trains softer seats than you find in a 185 at the moment?

Well yes we got people here moaning the refurbishment didn't go far enough, but now they will be moaning about the new seats.

 

[Geeves]

The news about the seats isn't new. There were parts of each seat that people liked so its not unfair I don't think to combine all the best features from each? They have gone with the seat (pitch and padding) most preferred with other parts like arm rests and what not from the others.

I am sure compared to a Merseyrail 142 or a bus seated pacer or a sitonthefloor 150 these are going to be a welcome change. Obviously there are going to be some who will never be happy

You are welcome to stand in the vestibule in protest if you desire.

 

[yorksrob]

If they replace the 158 seats with worse ones, then of course I'll be unhappy ! If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[BigCj34]

The main issue with the seats is the lack of legroom, though it would be handy if the pullout tables were bigger. Just how many rows of seats are gained by squishing them together compared to having the legroom of a 185 for instance?

 

[Nymanic]

This likely means that all refurbished units get the same design of new seat - since it's cheaper to order a single product. The idea of 150s and 158s both having the same 'compromise' seat doesn't, erm, sit well with me.

MR had very briefly claimed the least popular seat design was chosen - that'll be the Fainsa 'ironing board', with the possible addition of a thicker seat base to appease longer-distance passengers. We can only wait and see, but my back is already aching in pessimistic anticipation. The Fainsas are the perfect cacophony of unnatural posture, absent padding and lost privacy.

 

[rich r]

My daily journey is only 30 minutes each way (usually on a 142, 150 or 153), so I'm not too fussed about the padding - as long as I can have an extra inch or so of leg room so I can actually get my knees in.

 

[BurtonM]

is it even legal to give modern trains softer seats than you find in a 185 at the moment?

Softer than a 185? It better be legal as 'soft' is the last adjective I'd use to describe them, they're only one step over 'ironing board'.

What is the railway's fascination with hard seats?

 

[Bornin1980s]

I wondered if they were required to be hard due to crash safety requirements. Have any trains launched since the 185 had softer seats?

And what are standard CAF intercity seats like, because that's what we will be getting on the new Transpennine coaches.

 

[xotGD]

Perhaps they can salvage the bus seats out of the bendies and fit them to the new stock?

Anything that is 2+2, with legroom gets my vote.

 

[47802]

This likely means that all refurbished units get the same design of new seat - since it's cheaper to order a single product. The idea of 150s and 158s both having the same 'compromise' seat doesn't, erm, sit well with me.

MR had very briefly claimed the least popular seat design was chosen - that'll be the Fainsa 'ironing board', with the possible addition of a thicker seat base to appease longer-distance passengers. We can only wait and see, but my back is already aching in pessimistic anticipation. The Fainsas are the perfect cacophony of unnatural posture, absent padding and lost privacy.

Well yes although I expect the 150's will be sticking with 3+2 so the seating may be of the same type but not identical. I remain sceptical as to whether all seating will actually be replaced, I can see it on the 158's as that's been mentioned as a possibility previously but I not so sure about the other units.

On the refurbished 156 I was on the other day I thought the existing seating was OK, although if they are getting new seats it might explain as to why the existing seating wasn't touched.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Well yes although I expect the 150's will be sticking with 3+2 so the seating may be of the same type but not identical. I remain sceptical as to whether all seating will actually be replaced, I can see it on the 158's as that's been mentioned as a possibility previously but I not so sure about the other units.

On the refurbished 156 I was on the other day I thought the existing seating was OK, although if they are getting new seats it might explain as to why the existing seating wasn't touched.

Though 158 seats WERE reupholstered and re-stuffed, and indeed are now among the comfiest seats I've been on (though of course comfort is subjective) but still rumoured to be getting replaced.

 

[yorksrob]

Well yes although I expect the 150's will be sticking with 3+2 so the seating may be of the same type but not identical. I remain sceptical as to whether all seating will actually be replaced, I can see it on the 158's as that's been mentioned as a possibility previously but I not so sure about the other units.

On the refurbished 156 I was on the other day I thought the existing seating was OK, although if they are getting new seats it might explain as to why the existing seating wasn't touched.

That sounds typical. The decent seats get replaced, yet we get stuck with all the crap.

 

[palmersears]

Is 155346 back in service after its refurb?

 

[Mordac]

I wondered if they were required to be hard due to crash safety requirements. Have any trains launched since the 185 had softer seats?

And what are standard CAF intercity seats like, because that's what we will be getting on the new Transpennine coaches.

I hope won't use the ones they put on the NIR Class 3000s. Way too hard. Worst part of an otherwise excellent unit.

 

[Adam0984]

Is 155346 back in service after its refurb?

Still on today's stop list as been on Neville Hill planned release date 14/06/17

 

[Bornin1980s]

I hope won't use the ones they put on the NIR Class 3000s. Way too hard. Worst part of an otherwise excellent unit.

What are the seats like on NIR 4000s? Or on CAF intercity stock, anywhere?