Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[xotGD]

Indeed. 142+156 formations look a bit stupid but a 142+156 formation is certainly better than a 142 on it's own.

As long as you get on the 156!

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed. 142+156 formations look a bit stupid but a 142+156 formation is certainly better than a 142 on it's own.

That's for sure, although we don't get many 156's around these parts.

 

[xotGD]

One of the big lessons about 3+2 seating is the approach used on the 333s. All seats on the 3 side are in bays, with airline seats only on the 2 side. If this approach is taken with the 150s I'd have no issue with 3+2 seating being used- after all we need all the capacity we can get...

You could use a 153 as a centre car in a 150, but as the vehicles are different lengths it would make life awkward for stopping positions on platforms, and it would look ridiculous. The only future I can see for 153s is as 2 or 3-car 155s. Hybrid sets also create issues with route availability: there are places where 153/5s are passed but 150s aren't, and vice-versa.

It isn't fun being jammed in the middle of the 3 on a 333. And when the train is quiet you are still stuck in a seat that is too narrow to be comfortable. And no, I don't have an extra-wide backside!

We need longer trains with comfortable seats, rather than shoe-horning in as many seats as possible in trains with too few carriages.

 

[M1544]

You do have to wonder if there is some major issue with Northern's refits as the likes of 155346 have been out of traffic for over 11 months. At this rate the it will take to the end of the franchise just to do the 155s. And on current patterns they will likely still have the same seats and just a facelift inside rather than a proper refurbishment. And only 2 158s in traffic and it's only the first phase of refurbishment without any wifi or USB ports and the original seats. And then 150275 seems to not want to return to service after its refit as it's spent most of its time at Newton Heath ever since coming back.
I can't help feeling that Other TOCS are doing their units far faster than Northern and we are being left behind. Does anyone know if things are likely to speed up?

 

[superkev]

You do have to wonder if there is some major issue with Northern's refits as the likes of 155346 have been out of traffic for over 11 months. At this rate the it will take to the end of the franchise just to do the 155s. And on current patterns they will likely still have the same seats and just a facelift inside rather than a proper refurbishment. And only 2 158s in traffic and it's only the first phase of refurbishment without any wifi or USB ports and the original seats. And then 150275 seems to not want to return to service after its refit as it's spent most of its time at Newton Heath ever since coming back.
I can't help feeling that Other TOCS are doing their units far faster than Northern and we are being left behind. Does anyone know if things are likely to speed up?

With the MD abandoning ship and the snails pace of enhancements and unit refresh I feel all's not well.
K

 

[northwichcat]

As long as you get on the 156!

I remember seeing a 156 + a Merseytravel 142 near the start of it's journey towards Manchester. The 156 seemed to have someone sat in most of the window seats so was presumably at least half full - the 142 had just one girl on board!

 

[YorkshireBear]

With the MD abandoning ship and the snails pace of enhancements and unit refresh I feel all's not well.
K

Jump ship or took a promotion.... Or wanted to go work with his old parent company of Albellio?

I do however get the same feeling.

 

[simon7929]

156471 has been in the North East this week. The interior hasn't changed apart from a new style WC. As I understood it, the fleet was going to be completely refurbished?

 

[DJH1971]

The 319 failures continue.

Today's 16:16 LIV-MAN & 16:20 LIV-MCV services are 2 car (very overcrowded) 156's

Looks the failures are becoming more common again

 

[8A Rail]

The 319 failures continue.
Today's 16:16 LIV-MAN & 16:20 LIV-MCV services are 2 car (very overcrowded) 156's
Looks the failures are becoming more common again

Like that yesterday as I noted 2xCl156's together and also a Class150/1 operating too around dinnertime! Interestingly, newly arrived ex Wolverton No 319363 was out and about though.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

156471 has been in the North East this week. The interior hasn't changed apart from a new style WC. As I understood it, the fleet was going to be completely refurbished?

On some fleets it seems that DDA stuff is being done separately from the general/interior refurbishments.

 

[TEW]

156471 had already had the accessibility modifications before it went to Crewe as was repainted AFAIK. Northern had previously stated that only refurbished units would gain the new livery, and were sticking to that, to the extent that some 150s are still getting repainted in the old Northern livery.

 

[northwichcat]

to the extent that some 150s are still getting repainted in the old Northern livery.

I've heard that's down to ROSCO funded C6 overhauls which damages the paintwork so the ROSCO repaints them in the same livery so that they don't return to the TOC with damaged paintwork.

 

[TEW]

I'm sure it would not be difficult to have painted them in the new livery instead, and would have saved on the needless expense of putting the new livery when they are refurbished.

 

[Geeves]

150275 has left its long term resting spot. I cant see it out today so I can only assume they are attending to it inside Newton Heath

 

[DJH1971]

Has the 16:16 LIV-MAN service gone back to diesel operation only?

Just like yesterday, it's a very cramped 156 again.

 

[northwichcat]

Has the 16:16 LIV-MAN service gone back to diesel operation only?

Just like yesterday, it's a very cramped 156 again.

319s are dropping like flies (again!) I don't know how reliable the bi-mode versions will be, which seem to be critical to Northern's current plans.

 

[DJH1971]

319s are dropping like flies (again!) I don't know how reliable the bi-mode versions will be, which seem to be critical to Northern's current plans.

It was so bad that I had to get off at Wavertree Technology Park and get the slower train after that.

 

[Bungle965]

150275 has left its long term resting spot. I cant see it out today so I can only assume they are attending to it inside Newton Heath

150275 is back outside Newton Heath T.M.D as I past it at 18:17 this evening.
Sam

 

[simon7929]

156471 has been working Whitby services all day today.

 

[507021]

319s are dropping like flies (again!) I don't know how reliable the bi-mode versions will be, which seem to be critical to Northern's current plans.

As there's going to be plenty of newer replacements becoming available for lease fairly soon, I personally think it's time to start look at replacing the Class 319 fleet as soon as possible. There's the Class 379 fleet which will soon be homeless after Greater Anglia return them to Angel Trains and I think they would be absolutely ideal for Northern, although unfortunately as much as I think it would be a great solution, I can't see it happening.

I can dream, though!

 

[notlob.divad]

319s are dropping like flies (again!) I don't know how reliable the bi-mode versions will be, which seem to be critical to Northern's current plans.

Given the number.Of 319s that are sat idle across the country, and the vast shortage of DMU traction. I find it ncredible that DMUs are substituting for 319s. Whilst I appreciate some are undergoing major refurbishment, I am convinced there must be enough that even with several failures, on top of the Refurbishments a 319 should be available to replace the malfunctioning unit

 

[childwallblues]

319s are dropping like flies (again!) I don't know how reliable the bi-mode versions will be, which seem to be critical to Northern's current plans.

Over exaggeration?

 

[158756]

Given the number.Of 319s that are sat idle across the country, and the vast shortage of DMU traction. I find it ncredible that DMUs are substituting for 319s. Whilst I appreciate some are undergoing major refurbishment, I am convinced there must be enough that even with several failures, on top of the Refurbishments a 319 should be available to replace the malfunctioning unit

There might be spare 319s, but they aren't in Northern's franchise agreement so Northern can't use them.

Ditto for suggestions of eventually replacing 319s with something better.

 

[Starmill]

If the lease on something new sufficiently low in price that terminating the current lease and taking up a new one costs less, DfT may well agree to it. Of course, there may be penalties for handing back stock early.

 

[Silverlink]

Class 319's just need a good refurb e.g south west trains kind of return & im sure all these faults will eventually stop

 

[childwallblues]

Like that yesterday as I noted 2xCl156's together and also a Class150/1 operating too around dinnertime! Interestingly, newly arrived ex Wolverton No 319363 was out and about though.

Strange how some units are unreliable and others near perfect. 319363 has always been a good unit and 319382 is having problems.

 

[M60lad]

150275 had indeed left its resting spot last night and I was surpsied to actually see it in Victoria paired up with a 142 ready to operate 21:57 Victoria-Huddersfield service, 142 was leading with 150275 being the rear set, the units for this service normally run empty from Newton Heath-Victoria before operating the service.

It seems 150275 overnighted in West Yorkshire as on checking Realtime Trains no sooner this service gets to Huddersfield it shunts into Huddersfield Sidings, so don't know whether this means 150275 will be in service in/around West Yorkshire today or whether it ventures back over the Pennines is anyones guess

 

[northwichcat]

Over exaggeration?

So are you saying the number of 319 failures is no higher (proportionally) than the number of 323 failures?

Northern don't currently have any DMUs on 323 diagrams at the current time but have a DMU running between LSP and Preston currently due to a shortage of working 319s.

 

[northwichcat]

Strange how some units are unreliable and others near perfect. 319363 has always been a good unit and 319382 is having problems.

Not uncommon for older trains, which is why with some classes the less reliable units get withdrawn while the more reliable units remain in service.