Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[northwichcat]

If the lease on something new sufficiently low in price that terminating the current lease and taking up a new one costs less, DfT may well agree to it. Of course, there may be penalties for handing back stock early.

If another operator can be found who could use a large 319 fleet then maybe Northern could sublease 319s to them and the reliability will be better due to the other operator having a larger fleet?

 

[Thomas6187]

150275 has been running out of Manchester Piccadilly this morning, on Marple/New Mills services.

Edit: My source has it working the 10:49 Manchester Piccadilly-Sheffield

 

[notlob.divad]

There might be spare 319s, but they aren't in Northern's franchise agreement so Northern can't use them.

My point was more that Northern currently have access to all of the 319s they will have. Yet can still only run services on the Preston Wigan and Warrington BQ diagrams out of Liverpool and the Manchester airport shuttle and express. Given that they should also have enough to run services on the Bolton corridor but cannot due to incomplete infrastructure as well as the normal spares, I cannot understand why they are finding the need to run DMUs on services they could run as EMUs, presumably short forming elsewhere.

 

[superkev]

319s are dropping like flies (again!) I don't know how reliable the bi-mode versions will be, which seem to be critical to Northern's current plans.

Surely they weren't so unreliable in there Thameslink days. What has changed other than the depots maintaining them.
K

 

[507021]

Strange how some units are unreliable and others near perfect. 319363 has always been a good unit and 319382 is having problems.

I definitely agree with you there, 319363 is Northern's best 319, in my view.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

My point was more that Northern currently have access to all of the 319s they will have. Yet can still only run services on the Preston Wigan and Warrington BQ diagrams out of Liverpool and the Manchester airport shuttle and express. Given that they should also have enough to run services on the Bolton corridor but cannot due to incomplete infrastructure as well as the normal spares, I cannot understand why they are finding the need to run DMUs on services they could run as EMUs, presumably short forming elsewhere.

I believe Northern have 21 units to call on (they can't simply transfer from Thameslink as they need guard operated door control panels to be fitted), out of an expected 32 when the 'Bolton corridor' is electrified (eight of which are to be fitted with additional diesel engines IIRC). One of those 21 units will be out of service getting PRM modifications, leaving twenty, I believe one is for the Airport shuttle, three are needed for the Liverpool-Manchester Airport runs, three for the Vic stoppers, two for the Warrington service, four for Preston fasts and four for the Wigan stoppers, leaving three for maintenance and failures.

 

[Starmill]

I was just about to say they do not have the use of all 32 yet. HHF has summarised this much better than I could have though. Incidentally I thought they had 20 rather than 21 so actually they're doing slightly better.

 

[DJH1971]

The 319 failures rumble on today.

Today's 17:17 Liverpool Lime Street to Preston service is a 156.

 

[Starmill]

I have uploaded some photos of my trip on 150275. Before and after shots included (before ones from 150276). I will try to caption them and give my good and bad points later. For now I will say it's better than it looks.

 

[northwichcat]

^ So no PIS yet?

That woman's giving you an evil look in the third photo.

 

[Starmill]

It does have PIS:



Not that it does anything other than display the final destination on a loop.

 

[yorksrob]

I have uploaded some photos of my trip on 150275. Before and after shots included (before ones from 150276). I will try to caption them and give my good and bad points later. For now I will say it's better than it looks.

Cheers for uploading.

The interior colour scheme is certainly very pleasant. Other than that, it looks pretty familiar.

 

[Starmill]

You see how the ramp has been moved from a cupboard that took up the vestibule into its own new case? The cupboards that houses emergency ladders, first aid kits (allegedly) and a fire extinguisher in either end of the train have been removed. This gives wider doorways and more vestibule space.

 

[yorksrob]

You see how the ramp has been moved from a cupboard that took up the vestibule into its own new case? The cupboards that houses emergency ladders, first aid kits (allegedly) and a fire extinguisher in either end of the train have been removed. This gives wider doorways and more vestibule space.

Ah thanks, I hadn't noticed those.

Its a shame it still has the 3+2 airline seating, but given the recent thread about Northern's new seating, perhaps we're lucky to have kept the old design.

 

[Starmill]

Now that other things have been dealt with, I would say the 3+2 airline seating is the biggest problem.

 

[Bungle965]

Now that other things have been dealt with, I would say the 3+2 airline seating is the biggest problem.

I have had the unfortunate pleasure of having a 150 Leeds-Manchester service on numerous occasions and can certainly agree that getting rid of the rancid 3+2 seating would make travelling on these for more than 1/2 hour bearable.
Sam

 

[yorksrob]

I have had the unfortunate pleasure of having a 150 Leeds-Manchester service on numerous occasions and can certainly agree that getting rid of the rancid 3+2 seating would make travelling on these for more than 1/2 hour bearable.
Sam

I've often said that Great Western have done a wonderful job of making some of their 150's more suitable for longer journeys with 2+2, a decent proportion of facing bays and plenty of tables. 150's needn't be bad !

 

[Starmill]

3 out of 243 have been partially upgraded

This does strongly imply that this unit is not in its finished condition, same as (apparently) the 158s.

 

[northwichcat]

I've often said that Great Western have done a wonderful job of making some of their 150's more suitable for longer journeys with 2+2, a decent proportion of facing bays and plenty of tables. 150's needn't be bad !

The ones with 2+2 seating were refurbished by Wessex Trains, the ex-LO and LM ones which FGW inherited with 3+2 retain 3+2 but they will be transferring to Northern.

 

[yorksrob]

The ones with 2+2 seating were refurbished by Wessex Trains, the ex-LO and LM ones which FGW inherited with 3+2 retain 3+2 but they will be transferring to Northern.

Ah yes, I noticed there are some traditional ones on the Cornish branches !

 

[Bletchleyite]

It does have PIS:

View attachment 31762

Not that it does anything other than display the final destination on a loop.

It's clean and fresh, but incredibly basic. Would be more at home on Nederlandse Spoorwegen than the UK, really.

I think the single-colour seats are a mistake, they really don't help it. The LM ones have been done to what is basically the same standard (no PIS though I think) but look much nicer simply due to a better choice of colours and moquette.

 

[Sparks807Evo]

When you compare it to what ATW/FGW did with the 150/2s it just doesn't quite match in quality. I've probably said it too many times now, but the interiors need a SWT Class 455 job...

 

[DJH1971]

Looks like yet another 319 failure.

Today's 06:02 MCV-LIV consists of a 142 & 150.

They don't seem to be grasping the problem.

 

[childwallblues]

So are you saying the number of 319 failures is no higher (proportionally) than the number of 323 failures?

Northern don't currently have any DMUs on 323 diagrams at the current time but have a DMU running between LSP and Preston currently due to a shortage of working 319s.

Yes 156490 is currently on the Preston service.
Although there are now 22 units at Allerton, 2 are at Wolverton for mods and 448 has yet to make service after its recent arrival. This only leaves 19 units for what in effect is 19 diagrams including peak hour trains.
I assume Liverpool South Parkway is LSP to you. The correct code is LPY.

 

[Starmill]

150275 is today working the 1103 Manchester Airport to Southport. Unfortunately I've just passed it and I think it's taken out a pigeon!

 

[northwichcat]

The correct code is LPY.

It was an abbreviation not a station code. Although, I shouldn't have really shortened the Liverpool bit. I thought using official station codes in posts wasn't allowed under forum rules.

 

[47802]

I have had the unfortunate pleasure of having a 150 Leeds-Manchester service on numerous occasions and can certainly agree that getting rid of the rancid 3+2 seating would make travelling on these for more than 1/2 hour bearable.
Sam

Yes but the point is as has been made frequently that the Northern 150's shouldnt be working some of the services they are working now in a few years time and should move to services they are more suited for such as stopping and commuter services where 3+2 seating is arguably more appropriate, although it is a pity that budget didn't run to new seating as those seats do look out of the ark. Also of course Northern are getting a substancial number of new and cascaded trains with 2+2 seating.

In any case how many people do Leeds-Manchester on a 150?

 

[simon7929]

150s would be perfect for North East services. Ideal for the SLB/DAR/BIA circuit. Perfect for commuters and ideal during the summer to swallow the heavy loadings that 142s struggle with when the whole of Darlington, Thornaby and Middlesbrough visit Redcar and Saltburn with their families. Larger doors and more space would surely put an end to the numerous delays caused through overcrowding. The plan to use 156s once the 142s have gone is not ideal due to the lack of bike/wheelchair accommodation and would be better used on Manchester/Leeds peak services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

156s have tons of bike space, they have a traditional van area.

 

[simon7929]

156s have tons of bike space, they have a traditional van area.

The doors are narrow and make access difficult which in turn causes delays.