• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Northern TVMs - Quick Buy

Status
Not open for further replies.

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
31,091
Location
Redcar
I already find Northern's TVMs slow enough what with the 'artificial' need to send purchasers down the line of selecting trains of choice on routes where many users are simply going to be buying a flexible walk up type ticket.

Whilst I haven't used it (should have tried while killing time at Oxford Road yesterday) Northern TVMs now have a Quick Buy function.

The above posts in a different thread reminded me I wanted to start a thread to highlight how excellent, in my opinion, the Northern TVMs actually are now. One of my longstanding complaints with a lot of more recent TVM installations (including Northern) is the proliferation of journey planning software as a critical part of the interface. Whilst I absolutely think that having a journey planner is an extremely helpful function in a TVM it does rather make things more complicated when at a lot of stations all the majority of people are actually after is a return ticket valid on the next train to the nearest major settlement. I was poking at a Northern TVM at Meadowhall a little over a month ago to kill time before rejoining a railtour and discovered that Northern appear to have done a, in my view, very good job at solving this issue. Quick Buy!

Once you wake the TVM up with a tap you're presented with the home screen which now has a big and prominent "Quick Buy" button on it:

IMG_20230220_165111-min.jpg

The screen also keep the other options like a journey planner, live running information, ticket collection, etc.

This then takes you to a much more classical TVM interface:

IMG_20230220_165120-min.jpg

With the station you're currently at pre-selected as the origin (but you can change it if so desired) and then a range of stations or the option to type a station in. I am slightly intrigued by the logic though. I can buy that Darlington, Middlesbrough, Saltburn, Newcastle, Redcar Central and Thornaby will be popular. But are lots of people really walking up to the TVM to buy a ticket to Kings Cross or Seaburn?! However the logic works though the main point is that if I just want a ticket to the next biggest town along the line I am now within potentially two presses of being presented with a ticket selection screen:

IMG_20230220_165131-min.jpg

Where I can choose from a couple of singles or returns (Anytime or Off-Peak) with the cheapest fare helpful highlighted. Bliss! Though I'm intrigued by the "Singles Each Way" option, Northern preparing for single leg pricing perhaps?! It also allows you to fiddle with the number of people travelling or add a railcard if needed. Once you've chosen your ticket it takes you to a summary screen:

IMG_20230220_165146-min.jpg

Which confirms the ticket, any discount, price and I think helpfully highlights when the next train on which your ticket is valid is. Hit pay now and you're taken to a payment screen (where you can also PlusBus as a button offering it appears). Bliss. You're now only around four or five presses away from being able to buy a ticket which is valid on the next train rather than having to go through a full journey planning experience.

At the bottom ticket selection screen there are two other buttons one of which is titled "Help Choosing" and that brings up a box:

IMG_20230220_165216-min.jpg
(Text in a box on the TVM screen saying: "For help please speak to local staff (if available) or call Northern for assistance on 0800 200 6060. Text 61016 to report a crime or incident that requires a British Transport Police response. In an emergency call 999.")

I'm not entirely sure how helpful that really is (especially the stuff about contacting the BTP) but I guess it's better than nothing! The other button is labelled "Advance Fares" and takes you to the full journey planner:

IMG_20230220_165235-min.jpg
(Picture shows full journey planner interface)

I did like that it read across the stations I'd told it in Quick Buy straight into the journey planner. Though I do think that that button is slightly poorly named. I was wondering if rather than calling it "Advance Fares" it might be better to explicitly call it "Journey Planner" so it's a bit more obvious what it is. I also wondered similarly about "Help Choosing?" as when I first pressed on that I did kinda expect it to take me to a journey planner! So I think perhaps Northern might have a bit of work to do on those two features specifically. But that's definitely nit pick territory. Compared to the first time I used one of these TVMs where you were forced to use a clunky and slow journey planner this is light years ahead. I was honestly very impressed.

Anyway I thought I'd post this up as this is the best implementation of this concept I've seen amongst the journey planner capable TVMs and I guess there will be people out there who might be interested but haven't seen it in the wild themselves yet. I wonder if it's helping reduce queues at stations (like my own) where there is only one TVM when everyone isn't being forced to plan their journey?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
7,472
Location
Northern England
I agree that this is, in general, excellent when it comes to the problem of TVMs taking too long to use because the journey planner is convoluted. Also, it lets you change the origin station of your ticket, which not long ago was almost unheard of on TVMs.

It's worth noting that it doesn't help with the other problem with journey planning TVMs, that being that it sometimes prevents the user from buying ticket they want at all - If I recall correctly it will still not sell a ticket if the journey planner can't find a service it's valid on.

Showing what the next available train is is a nice feature, but if there are actually changes, would it just say, for example, "Changes: 3" (unhelpful) or would it tell you where they are (very helpful to someone unfamiliar with the system)? And also, I know it's pedantic, but what's with the spurious capital letter on "train"? [Insert predictable about poor proof-reading of information given to the public]

The improvement that these machines have seen since they were installed, just through changes to software, is huge though. They were pretty hopeless when first introduced. They may still be a bit clunky in some ways, but in general they are now perfectly competent TVMs with some really excellent features.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
31,091
Location
Redcar
Showing what the next available train is is a nice feature, but if there are actually changes, would it just say, for example, "Changes: 3" (unhelpful) or would it tell you where they are (very helpful to someone unfamiliar with the system)?
Not sure! I had been loitering at the TVM for long enough by then that a) dinner at home was calling to me and b) I was worried Longbeck signaller might be getting worried about what that weirdo was doing taking photos of the TVM so didn't think to check :lol:
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
7,472
Location
Northern England
Not sure! I had been loitering at the TVM for long enough by then that a) dinner at home was calling to me and b) I was worried Longbeck signaller might be getting worried about what that weirdo was doing taking photos of the TVM so didn't think to check :lol:
Fair enough!

Additional thought: that "info" icon to the right looks like it might be a button; perhaps that's how you get it to show the interchange stations. (If it is a button, a sensible UI tweak for the sake of consistency with most of the rest of the buttons - and thus usability - would probably be to add a drop shadow to it, but this is a pretty unimportant thing in the grand scheme of things).
 
Last edited:

johntea

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2010
Messages
3,034
The only button missing is "Buy @northernman a beer" :D

Just shows the power of having a representative on here listening to customer feedback (good or bad!) rather than rolling out generic responses on certain other social media platforms
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
113,269
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
The Chiltern ones also have this feature. As almost all tickets they sell are walk ups, this makes them from useless to reasonably decent. The interface is similar to Scheidt & Bachmann machines.
 

northernman

Verified Rep - Northern
Joined
19 Jul 2012
Messages
139
Genuinely chuffed with this, thank you! And feel free to buy me a beer (when off duty of course) anytime
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,629
Just shows the power of having a representative on here listening to customer feedback (good or bad!) rather than rolling out generic responses on certain other social media platforms
It also shows that suppliers don't feel the need to offer improvements to all of their customers.
 

Killingworth

Established Member
Joined
30 May 2018
Messages
6,464
Location
Sheffield
Good to also find details of the next few departures. Shame about the strike warnings. I've yet to test the bus replacement tab when it might be live.

20221222_122842.jpg
 

CE142

Member
Joined
23 Dec 2014
Messages
105
The above posts in a different thread reminded me I wanted to start a thread to highlight how excellent, in my opinion, the Northern TVMs actually are now. One of my longstanding complaints with a lot of more recent TVM installations (including Northern) is the proliferation of journey planning software as a critical part of the interface. Whilst I absolutely think that having a journey planner is an extremely helpful function in a TVM it does rather make things more complicated when at a lot of stations all the majority of people are actually after is a return ticket valid on the next train to the nearest major settlement. I was poking at a Northern TVM at Meadowhall a little over a month ago to kill time before rejoining a railtour and discovered that Northern appear to have done a, in my view, very good job at solving this issue. Quick Buy!

Once you wake the TVM up with a tap you're presented with the home screen which now has a big and prominent "Quick Buy" button on it:

View attachment 129401

The screen also keep the other options like a journey planner, live running information, ticket collection, etc.

This then takes you to a much more classical TVM interface:

View attachment 129402

With the station you're currently at pre-selected as the origin (but you can change it if so desired) and then a range of stations or the option to type a station in. I am slightly intrigued by the logic though. I can buy that Darlington, Middlesbrough, Saltburn, Newcastle, Redcar Central and Thornaby will be popular. But are lots of people really walking up to the TVM to buy a ticket to Kings Cross or Seaburn?! However the logic works though the main point is that if I just want a ticket to the next biggest town along the line I am now within potentially two presses of being presented with a ticket selection screen:

View attachment 129403

Where I can choose from a couple of singles or returns (Anytime or Off-Peak) with the cheapest fare helpful highlighted. Bliss! Though I'm intrigued by the "Singles Each Way" option, Northern preparing for single leg pricing perhaps?! It also allows you to fiddle with the number of people travelling or add a railcard if needed. Once you've chosen your ticket it takes you to a summary screen:

View attachment 129404

Which confirms the ticket, any discount, price and I think helpfully highlights when the next train on which your ticket is valid is. Hit pay now and you're taken to a payment screen (where you can also PlusBus as a button offering it appears). Bliss. You're now only around four or five presses away from being able to buy a ticket which is valid on the next train rather than having to go through a full journey planning experience.

At the bottom ticket selection screen there are two other buttons one of which is titled "Help Choosing" and that brings up a box:

View attachment 129405
(Text in a box on the TVM screen saying: "For help please speak to local staff (if available) or call Northern for assistance on 0800 200 6060. Text 61016 to report a crime or incident that requires a British Transport Police response. In an emergency call 999.")

I'm not entirely sure how helpful that really is (especially the stuff about contacting the BTP) but I guess it's better than nothing! The other button is labelled "Advance Fares" and takes you to the full journey planner:

View attachment 129406
(Picture shows full journey planner interface)

I did like that it read across the stations I'd told it in Quick Buy straight into the journey planner. Though I do think that that button is slightly poorly named. I was wondering if rather than calling it "Advance Fares" it might be better to explicitly call it "Journey Planner" so it's a bit more obvious what it is. I also wondered similarly about "Help Choosing?" as when I first pressed on that I did kinda expect it to take me to a journey planner! So I think perhaps Northern might have a bit of work to do on those two features specifically. But that's definitely nit pick territory. Compared to the first time I used one of these TVMs where you were forced to use a clunky and slow journey planner this is light years ahead. I was honestly very impressed.

Anyway I thought I'd post this up as this is the best implementation of this concept I've seen amongst the journey planner capable TVMs and I guess there will be people out there who might be interested but haven't seen it in the wild themselves yet. I wonder if it's helping reduce queues at stations (like my own) where there is only one TVM when everyone isn't being forced to plan their journey?
Does Meadowhall still have a Ticket Office?

If so why would you use the machine?

Booking on duty the other day, two lads trying to work out how to use the TVM which is right next to the Ticket Office.... "Scuse me mate, do you know how to work this machine?" " No mate, I have never used one, but if you see the girls in the Ticket Office right there, they will be able to sell you whatever tickets you need" " Ohh ok then"
 

lyndhurst25

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2010
Messages
1,589
Will this function allow you to buy a ticket to a station which has no train service at all on that day? e.g. an Anytime Short Return return to Rainford, travelling out on a Sunday (you would make your own way from Kirkby to Rainford), with the intention of returning on a Monday (travelling by train all the way)?
 

ricoblade

Member
Joined
28 Sep 2015
Messages
546
Does Meadowhall still have a Ticket Office?

If so why would you use the machine?

Booking on duty the other day, two lads trying to work out how to use the TVM which is right next to the Ticket Office.... "Scuse me mate, do you know how to work this machine?" " No mate, I have never used one, but if you see the girls in the Ticket Office right there, they will be able to sell you whatever tickets you need" " Ohh ok then"
Yes, but as on another thread, they can't sell you same day advances.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The TVM at Dore and Totley today wouldn't sell me an Advance for the 13:59 to Sheffield at about 13:55. I was wondering if there is a time limit or whether they were sold out (the train was about half full).
 
Last edited:

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
31,091
Location
Redcar
Showing what the next available train is is a nice feature, but if there are actually changes, would it just say, for example, "Changes: 3" (unhelpful) or would it tell you where they are (very helpful to someone unfamiliar with the system)?
Having had a enough time I've now had a go at illustrating this. For our intrepid passenger who was rocking up at Longbeck and wanting to go to Chester after selecting their ticket they'd be shown the following screen:

IMG_20230224_174437-min.jpg
(Screen showing service information which informs the next outbound journey departs at 1806 and arrives at 2250 with three changes)

They could then press the "i" to find out more and would get this sequence of screens:

IMG_20230224_174443-min.jpg
(Image shows box with journey details indicating leg one of four 1806 Longbeck to Darlington 1854 operated by Northern)

IMG_20230224_174446-min.jpg
(Image shows box with journey details indicating leg two of four 1900 Darlington to York 1927 operated by LNER)

IMG_20230224_174449-min.jpg
(Image shows box with journey details indicating leg three of four 2005 York to Newton Le Willows 2140 operated by TPE)

IMG_20230224_174452-min.jpg
(Image shows box with journey details indicating leg four of four 2205 Newton Le Willows to Chester 2250 operated by TfW)

Which I think that is probably a very helpful set of screens. If was going to make a suggestion for a "nice to have feature" it would be nice if you could ask the TVM to print that out for you as an itinerary...

Eagle eyed readers will have spotted in the first image there were two sections titled "Journey Information" and "Ticket Information" with inticing "tap to expand" invitations. For "Journey Information" if you do so you get this:

IMG_20230224_174516-min.jpg
(Box stating: "Route Restrictions - Valid only for travel via (changing trains or passing through) York.")

And for "Ticket Information":

IMG_20230224_174510-min.jpg
(Box stating: "Ticket Type: Anytime Day Single, Ticket Class: Standard, Discount: No valid Railcard(s) applied and Route Restrictions: Valid only for travel via (changing trains or passing through) York.")

Probably not really that useful on this ticket type. I should have tried to find an off-peak as I presume it would give slightly more detailed information about the times the ticket is valid. But good to see them implemented. Though I wonder if that first one should be "Journey Restrictions" or similar rather than "Journey Information"?

I remain, impressed to be clear however!
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
7,472
Location
Northern England
Having had a enough time I've now had a go at illustrating this. For our intrepid passenger who was rocking up at Longbeck and wanting to go to Chester after selecting their ticket they'd be shown the following screen:

View attachment 129763
(Screen showing service information which informs the next outbound journey departs at 1806 and arrives at 2250 with three changes)

They could then press the "i" to find out more and would get this sequence of screens:

View attachment 129764
(Image shows box with journey details indicating leg one of four 1806 Longbeck to Darlington 1854 operated by Northern)

View attachment 129765
(Image shows box with journey details indicating leg two of four 1900 Darlington to York 1927 operated by LNER)

View attachment 129766
(Image shows box with journey details indicating leg three of four 2005 York to Newton Le Willows 2140 operated by TPE)

(Image shows box with journey details indicating leg four of four 2205 Newton Le Willows to Chester 2250 operated by TfW)


Which I think that is probably a very helpful set of screens. If was going to make a suggestion for a "nice to have feature" it would be nice if you could ask the TVM to print that out for you as an itinerary...
I agree (both that it's helpful and that a print button would be good). Some TOCs can print itineraries at staffed ticket offices so being able to do it from the TVM seems logical.

I suppose the main issue is that the ticket office systems that can do this generally use the receipt printer, while the TVMs don't (I think?) have a separate receipt printer; they print everything on credit card sized tickets, which are not really well suited to this. No doubt if they were being installed now they'd print on "bog roll" instead, and no doubt this would be to much (mostly baseless) whinging on this forum, but that would be better from this perspective.

Maybe there could be an option to show the whole thing on one screen so you can at least take a photo with a smartphone, but the assumption is presumably that people with smartphones have already bought planned their journey and bought their ticket that way anyway.

I, like you, remain extremely impressed with how much these machines have improved though.

Probably not really that useful on this ticket type. I should have tried to find an off-peak as I presume it would give slightly more detailed information about the times the ticket is valid. But good to see them implemented. Though I wonder if that first one should be "Journey Restrictions" or similar rather than "Journey Information"?
I wondering if that would contain the messages from NRE that appear in online journey planners (such as "Disruption expected until the end of today due to a signalling fault") when applicable. That wouldn't really be a "restriction".
 

Alex365Dash

Member
Joined
2 Jul 2019
Messages
725
Location
Sussex
I suppose the main issue is that the ticket office systems that can do this generally use the receipt printer, while the TVMs don't (I think?) have a separate receipt printer; they print everything on credit card sized tickets, which are not really well suited to this. No doubt if they were being installed now they'd print on "bog roll" instead, and no doubt this would be to much (mostly baseless) whinging on this forum, but that would be better from this perspective.
Mandatory reservation coupons (where there are multiple reserved trains on an Advance ticket) are already on ticket stock, and those alredy detail the itinerary (minus non-reservable trains) on CCST. It doesn’t seem that much of a stretch to use a similar (not quite the same - arrival time at the station you get off at is helpful) text layout to print the itinerary on the ticket?
 

Ken H

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2018
Messages
6,718
Location
N Yorks
Maybe @northernman could arrange for an emulator for the TVM to run on a PC with the pay functions disabled so we can give the features a go at home.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
17,910
Location
0036
I agree (both that it's helpful and that a print button would be good). Some TOCs can print itineraries at staffed ticket offices so being able to do it from the TVM seems logical.
I think the main issue there is at certain unstaffed stations the local yokels will delight in printing off itineraries to Loch Eil Outward Bound or somewhere similarly remote and running out the TVM's paper/littering the station with them/both.
 

Mcr Warrior

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
17,218
I think the main issue there is at certain unstaffed stations the local yokels will delight in printing off itineraries to Loch Eil Outward Bound or somewhere similarly remote and running out the TVM's paper/littering the station with them/both.
Probable that said individuals might well benefit from attending a course at this particular named destination.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
31,091
Location
Redcar
I think the main issue there is at certain unstaffed stations the local yokels will delight in printing off itineraries to Loch Eil Outward Bound or somewhere similarly remote and running out the TVM's paper/littering the station with them/both.
Maybe? But have we ever seen mass printing of Promise to Pay tokens? I'm not saying it hasn't happened I'm just not sure we really need to worry that much about the local miscreants printing out itineraries to Sugar Loaf?
 

Killingworth

Established Member
Joined
30 May 2018
Messages
6,464
Location
Sheffield
Maybe? But have we ever seen mass printing of Promise to Pay tokens? I'm not saying it hasn't happened I'm just not sure we really need to worry that much about the local miscreants printing out itineraries to Sugar Loaf?

I have seen a user print off the maximum allowed in one transaction, about 9? He was leading a walking group and handed them.out to everyone. As far as I could see none of them was asked to pay and I suspect every one of them had a valid bank card.
 

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
6,858
But have we ever seen mass printing of Promise to Pay tokens?
Yes, personally seen it loads of times. It was particularly bad when you just had to press a single button to print them, now you have to input a journey which has reduced the issues but it does still happen.
 

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
8,410
Location
UK
The best TVMs are the ones used by EMR and TOCs in the southeast.
I love the first screen with the 10 most popular tickets which is really fast. No silly journey planner etc.

I noticed GWR are decommissioning their new TVMs with the flat screens in preference to the older style machines
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
31,091
Location
Redcar
Yes, personally seen it loads of times. It was particularly bad when you just had to press a single button to print them, now you have to input a journey which has reduced the issues but it does still happen.
Fair enough! The locals this end of the Northern network must just be a cut above :lol:;)
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
21,949
Location
Airedale
I tested the machine at Shipley a couple of days ago - being early for an appointment - and the only other thing I noticed was that the choice of Quick Buy tickets was for obvious local destinations plus London and Burley Park (which I suppose has something to do with a sporting venue at Headingley). Te original version had several places on the Whitby branch which (with respect to a certain forum member) struck me as odd :)
 

northernman

Verified Rep - Northern
Joined
19 Jul 2012
Messages
139
Hi all, thanks very much for the feedback, its all very useful. We are considering itinerary print, but only when linked to a sale, we do get some abuse on promise to pay prints, so I would not wish to uncouple a timetable print from an actual sale. We are also looking at converting to paper roll tickets, which would lend itself better to a timetable print.
Maybe? But have we ever seen mass printing of Promise to Pay tokens? I'm not saying it hasn't happened I'm just not sure we really need to worry that much about the local miscreants printing out itineraries to Sugar
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top