Northern TVMs - Quick Buy

[Ken H]

Hi all, thanks very much for the feedback, its all very useful. We are considering itinerary print, but only when linked to a sale, we do get some abuse on promise to pay prints, so I would not wish to uncouple a timetable print from an actual sale. We are also looking at converting to paper roll tickets, which would lend itself better to a timetable print.

Nooo
Keep CCST. Please.

 

[ainsworth74]

We are considering itinerary print, but only when linked to a sale, we do get some abuse on promise to pay prints, so I would not wish to uncouple a timetable print from an actual sale. We are also looking at converting to paper roll tickets, which would lend itself better to a timetable print.

Oh yes that's quite logical way to avoid abuse of the system!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't Northern's TVMs have separate till roll printers for receipts? I'm fairly sure LNR's do, or if it wasn't them I've seen it elsewhere. That would reduce the cost of people printing stuff maliciously.

 

[northernman]

Oh yes that's quite logical way to avoid abuse of the system!

thank you

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Feb 2023 ==

Don't Northern's TVMs have separate till roll printers for receipts? I'm fairly sure LNR's do, or if it wasn't them I've seen it elsewhere. That would reduce the cost of people printing stuff maliciously.

Yes our TVMs have both types of printer, the paper roll one not currently used, but will be as part of our trial to print on that type of roll stock

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes our TVMs have both types of printer, the paper roll one not currently used, but will be as part of our trial to print on that type of roll stock

While till roll or railway PRT? Or is the same printer capable of both?

 

[Haywain]

Don't Northern's TVMs have separate till roll printers for receipts? I'm fairly sure LNR's do, or if it wasn't them I've seen it elsewhere.

We used to have that on some LNER Worldline TVMs. They were a real pain to keep stocked and correctly aligned so that the receipt actually came out of the slot!

 

[Wallsendmag]

While till roll or railway PRT? Or is the same printer capable of both?

Ah now there's a question

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ah now there's a question

One could certainly argue that there's no need for the orange borders nor the "Rail Settlement Plan" wording if the barcode rather than other security features is what confers validity. Thus presumably it would be possible to issue barcoded tickets on simple white till roll, just like every single bus company does, and save money by doing so.

 

[py_megapixel]

One could certainly argue that there's no need for the orange borders nor the "Rail Settlement Plan" wording if the barcode rather than other security features is what confers validity. Thus presumably it would be possible to issue barcoded tickets on simple white till roll, just like every single bus company does, and save money by doing so.

Especially considering if you buy exactly the same fare online, the e-ticket is perfectly valid just printed on plain white paper. In fact, if you happened to have access to one, I would assume that a print of your ticket on a bog-standard thermal roll printer would be accepted (assuming it was high enough resolution that the barcode could be scanned).

 

[Haywain]

One could certainly argue that there's no need for the orange borders nor the "Rail Settlement Plan" wording if the barcode rather than other security features is what confers validity. Thus presumably it would be possible to issue barcoded tickets on simple white till roll, just like every single bus company does, and save money by doing so.

One certainly has argued that. However, it is certainly problematic with some products such as PlusBus which are, currently, only recognised reluctantly by some bus drivers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One certainly has argued that. However, it is certainly problematic with some products such as PlusBus which are, currently, only recognised reluctantly by some bus drivers.

I'm sure I recall reading that Plusbus is moving to barcodes, presumably ones recognised by Ticketer and that other common system Stagecoach use?

 

[Haywain]

I'm sure I recall reading that Plusbus is moving to barcodes, presumably ones recognised by Ticketer and that other common system Stagecoach use?

Yes, it will be moving to barcode to allow online eTicket sales. Not sure when but it's been on progress for a while. Don't know about reading the barcode though.

 

[py_megapixel]

One certainly has argued that. However, it is certainly problematic with some products such as PlusBus which are, currently, only recognised reluctantly by some bus drivers.

I wonder if switching to thermal roll and thus making it look more like a bus ticket might help with that.

Yes our TVMs have both types of printer, the paper roll one not currently used, but will be as part of our trial to print on that type of roll stock

That sounds good. Thermal roll tickets should be an improvement in the long run.

Yes, personally seen it loads of times. It was particularly bad when you just had to press a single button to print them, now you have to input a journey which has reduced the issues but it does still happen.

Yes, I used to walk past my local station and see literally dozens of the things strewn all over the ground - perhaps worsened by the fact that this particular station is above street level so "print loads of tickets and throw them off the bridge" was probably quite an entertaining pastime for bored teenagers.

I'm sure I recall reading that Plusbus is moving to barcodes, presumably ones recognised by Ticketer and that other common system Stagecoach use?

I thought barcode scanners were an optional module for Ticketer? I don't think Stagecoach have them at all! For me, the correct solution for Plusbus is to get rid of it and replace it with proper fare integration, but that's for another thread.

If Plusbus is going to be issued with barcodes, it is vital that bus ticketing hardware which has a barcode scanner accepts them. If the driver sees a ticket they don't recognise and has no way of checking it, they are likely to give benefit of the doubt. If the ticket has a barcode and their machine has a barcode scanner, and the machine rejects it, they almost certainly won't.

To return (somewhat) to the topic, is the plan that TVMs will issue barcodes for Plusbus as well, or is it just an online thing?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, it will be moving to barcode to allow online eTicket sales. Not sure when but it's been on progress for a while. Don't know about reading the barcode though.

It will certainly help given that for many use cases the bus journey is needed at the start, given how such a large proportion of rail journeys are to city centres.

 

[Haywain]

is the plan that TVMs will issue barcodes for Plusbus as well, or is it just an online thing?

That will surely go with issuing the rail tickets in such a format.

 

[Wallsendmag]

That will surely go with issuing the rail tickets in such a format.

Indeed

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I agree that this is, in general, excellent when it comes to the problem of TVMs taking too long to use because the journey planner is convoluted. Also, it lets you change the origin station of your ticket, which not long ago was almost unheard of on TVMs.

Horsham and London Victoria's TVMs do allow you to buy tickets from other stations (and this is the old ones we're talking about).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Feb 2023 ==

The Chiltern ones also have this feature. As almost all tickets they sell are walk ups, this makes them from useless to reasonably decent. The interface is similar to Scheidt & Bachmann machines.

Yes, and they are amazing to say the least!

GWR also have a couple of such ticket machines at Bristol Temple Meads station, and Gatwick Express/Southern/Thameslink also have one at Gatwick Airport too.

 

[bakerstreet]

Especially considering if you buy exactly the same fare online, the e-ticket is perfectly valid just printed on plain white paper. In fact, if you happened to have access to one, I would assume that a print of your ticket on a bog-standard thermal roll printer would be accepted (assuming it was high enough resolution that the barcode could be scanned).

Ax I understand it there is currently a crucial different between a PRT ticket (paper roll) on official orange stock with barcode, and a printed e-ticket with barcode on normal white paper.

- The PRT exists only once.
- As it exists only once, it can be read by staff with just their eyes if necessary without the need for scanning (as with CCST (credit card sized tickets).
- If the barcode on. PRT won’t scan, it’s the railway’s problem (as with CCST with faulty magnetic stripes).

With a ticket printed on standard white paper, it can exist an infinite number of times and so it must be scanned to check validity. Or an alternative version provided on a screen or some other format. If a self print ticket won’t scan, it’s more likely to end up being the passenger’s problem and not necessarily the railway’s

 

[Adam Williams]

(Image shows box with journey details indicating leg two of four 1900 Darlington to York 1927 operated by LNER)

@northernman Why are the TOCs so SHOUTY and UPPERCASE on this screen, when there are nice train ServiceProvidersRefData names in IDMS to use?