Northern trains to Nottingham should be longer

[Masbroughlad]

About time these services were strengthened. 2 car unit left Sheffield this evening full to the rafters (again).

 

[MCR247]

So should many trains in the country....

 

[PHILIPE]

About time these services were strengthened. 2 car unit left Sheffield this evening full to the rafters (again).

Where would you suggest a strengthening unit comes from ?

 

[455driver]

About time these services were strengthened. 2 car unit left Sheffield this evening full to the rafters (again).

Good idea, you go get the units, pay for the leasing fees, the maintenance, stabling etc etc and I am sure Northern would be very happy to accept them!

How many threads have we had moaning about northern so far this month?

Yes I know its only the 2nd!

You would think that the number of times we post about the (stupid) way the Northern franchise was let that even the thickest person would know about it by now, but no every couple of weeks its the same old drivel! :roll:

 

[Nevillehill]

Good idea, you go get the units, pay for the leasing fees, the maintenance, stabling etc etc and I am sure Northern would be very happy to accept them!

How many threads have we had moaning about northern so far this month?

Yes I know its only the 2nd!

You would think that the number of times we post about the (stupid) way the Northern franchise was let that even the thickest person would know about it by now, but no every couple of weeks its the same old drivel! :roll:

All Northerns profits go to Holland, hence no money for new stock.

 

[91103eastcoast]

Good idea, you go get the units, pay for the leasing fees, the maintenance, stabling etc etc and I am sure Northern would be very happy to accept them!

How many threads have we had moaning about northern so far this month?

Yes I know its only the 2nd!

You would think that the number of times we post about the (stupid) way the Northern franchise was let that even the thickest person would know about it by now, but no every couple of weeks its the same old drivel! :roll:

What happened to the magic wand?

 

[edwin_m]

I use these from time to time and get the impression they have seats available except for fairly short distances in commuter peaks.

Presuming from your title that it is a departure towards Nottingham, the EMT departures that call at Dronfield in the peaks are already 4-car sets and may have standees to Dronfield or Chesterfield but aren't excessively crowded unless short-formed.

 

[Masbroughlad]

I know far too many serviced can't cope across the network. Doesn't make it right!

 

[yorksrob]

As I mentioned in another thread, the Hallam line (which is the Northern half of the Nottingham - Leeds line) has been going through something of a meltdown.

Had a short formed 2 carriage Pacer this morning on the stopper and stood on the way in. The same short formed pacer was waiting for me for the journey back at 17:37 (a train which is packed as a three car). I went to the pub for an hour.

Last week, I tried to catch the one fast train in the morning that stops at my station to get to a meeting. This is usually a 150, but was a 2 car pacer. People were left on the platform and I caught the next one.

I've also had a couple of trains arrive half an hour late and a cancellation - all within seven days.

 

[Starmill]

Which service were you on? Almost all EMT services to Nottingham from Sheffield are formed of 4 coaches.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As I mentioned in another thread, the Hallam line (which is the Northern half of the Nottingham - Leeds line) has been going through something of a meltdown.

Had a short formed 2 carriage Pacer this morning on the stopper and stood on the way in. The same short formed pacer was waiting for me for the journey back at 17:37 (a train which is packed as a three car). I went to the pub for an hour.

Last week, I tried to catch the one fast train in the morning that stops at my station to get to a meeting. This is usually a 150, but was a 2 car pacer. People were left on the platform and I caught the next one.

I've also had a couple of trains arrive half an hour late and a cancellation - all within seven days.

I've seen a few trains to and from Leeds much busier than normal recently. Perhaps a bus to Wakefield might help you out for an earlier arrival at Leeds.

 

[FQ]

DaFT really need to give some money to improve the services in the north, for example give Northern the money to get more stock that isn't old stuff coming off other routes.

 

[yorksrob]

I've seen a few trains to and from Leeds much busier than normal recently. Perhaps a bus to Wakefield might help you out for an earlier arrival at Leeds.

I find that works very well if I've just missed the train (even though it goes against the grain somewhat ).

However, it wouldn't get me to Leeds earlier than the one fast train that stops at my stop. Normally I'm not in so much of a hurry !

 

[thenorthern]

All Northerns profits go to Holland, hence no money for new stock.

Yep The Netherlands or some fat man in a suit at Serco making money from running failing government departments if you ask some Northern Rail passengers.

 

[tbtc]

All Northerns profits go to Holland, hence no money for new stock.

Does it matter where the profits go? Any profits made are fairly small when compared to (a) the subsidy required to keep Northern going and (b) the cost of all of the "magic wand" improvements that people on here want to make to services.

The question is whether there's spare stock for a longer Northerns service to Nottingham (no) and whether any future spare stock should be used to strengthen that service (probably not a priority).

**​

Sheffield to Nottingham used to be one two-coach train per hour (EMT from Liverpool to Norwich).

Capacity was then increased when Northern introduced an hourly extension of their Leeds - Sheffield service (i.e. Sheffield - Nottingham became two trains per hour).

Then the extra 142s and 150s for Northern's "west side" allowed four 156s to go to EMT to be used on shorter/middle distance services to allow more 158s to be used on the Liverpool service so that most services are four coaches north/west of Nottingham.

So, in the space of a few years, it's gone from two coaches per hour (one train per hour) to six coaches per hour (shared between two trains an hour).

In the grand scheme of things, I'd argue that the capacity increases that Sheffield - Nottingham has had over recent years means that there are other lines that are bigger priorities for any spare stock in the future (i.e. those lines where services haven't seen an increase in seats despite an increase in passenger numbers).

(Sorry, I know that forum etiquette is to insist that your local service gets a bigger slice of the pie and that it's unfair that more money isn't splashed on your neck of the woods - apologies!)

 

[yorksrob]

Does it matter where the profits go? Any profits made are fairly small when compared to (a) the subsidy required to keep Northern going and (b) the cost of all of the "magic wand" improvements that people on here want to make to services.

You're the one who's always telling us that the Saturday parliamentary (as you call it) service via Brigg is a terrible waste of money and should be cut. I can't imagine it costs more to run than the profits of the Northern franchise holder (let alone the profits for all of the TOC's). I'd say it matters a lot where the profits go.

 

[PHILIPE]

DaFT really need to give some money to improve the services in the north, for example give Northern the money to get more stock that isn't old stuff coming off other routes.

About three years procurement process, another 3 years building !!!

 

[Starmill]

As far as the Northern franchise is concerned, serving Nottingham is an innovation more than it is a core prospect. If I am honest I can think of some slightly better uses of the stock than through trains beyond Sheffield, so it's just good luck that Northern are able to provide that at all.

 

[yorksrob]

As far as the Northern franchise is concerned, serving Nottingham is an innovation more than it is a core prospect. If I am honest I can think of some slightly better uses of the stock than through trains beyond Sheffield, so it's just good luck that Northern are able to provide that at all.

It's not a bad little service and usually a 158. It's good that we do have a regional service between Leeds and Nottingham.

 

[Haydn1971]

Perhaps in the longer term, following on from MML electrification a few cascaded 222's could be used to provide the Nottingham-Sheffield-Leeds service, longer term, provided as part of the future EMU orders for MML

 

[Starmill]

It's not a bad little service and usually a 158. It's good that we do have a regional service between Leeds and Nottingham.

I'd rather the 158 used on a route where people might actually make the end-to-end journey sensibly. Because it goes via Barnsley it's quicker to change at Sheffield than it is to use the Northern service throughout...

 

[yorksrob]

I'd rather the 158 used on a route where people might actually make the end-to-end journey sensibly. Because it goes via Barnsley it's quicker to change at Sheffield than it is to use the Northern service throughout...

I suppose it comes down to whether people prefer to get there more quickly or stay on the train. Given that the faster journey usually involves a crowded Voyager, I can sympathise with the longer option.

 

[edwin_m]

I'd rather the 158 used on a route where people might actually make the end-to-end journey sensibly. Because it goes via Barnsley it's quicker to change at Sheffield than it is to use the Northern service throughout...

True, but I consider the five or ten minutes extra is well worth while when it means getting a seat and sometimes a table to myself (off-peak) on a reasonably spacious if rather shabby 158, and being able to work uninterrupted for nearly two hours. The alternative involves a Voyager...

 

[Starmill]

Look, I know all this and I don't dispute it - I use that service if I can because I know it won't be as busy as the Voyager and a lot less nasty. But it will still show up in the journey planner as a slower option. Note also that as it only runs once an hour, it's quicker to change at Grantham or alternatively Sheffield and East Midlands Parkway in the opposite half of the hour.

 

[thenorthern]

I remember back in 2002 when this service was run 3 times per day by Arriva Trains Northern and only ran Sheffield-Chesterfield and was the only train to call at Dronfield.

I would say how the service is currently run is fine, congestion may be an issue but most trains are congested at some point of the day.

 

[syorksdeano]

The service is fine, and unfortunately on some weekday services it is carting fresh air between Sheffield and Nottingham.

I have an idea that I know people on here straight away will say "what a stupid idea" but what the he'll I might as well go for it.....

On a Sunday they have 1 service going to and from Carlisle, so why not have X amount of service a day (let's say 3) going to Carlisle from Nottingham?

Northern wouldn't lose any customers as it's basically connecting 2 services into 1 calling at all all the stops that it usually does.

Obviously train mileage would be an issue, bit that would leave 1 or maybe 2 units free for other services.

Not all the Leeds expresses go all the way to Nottingham anyway so all it would mean is extending those expresses to Nottingham.

Just an idea and like I said someone will be along in a minute to say what a stupid idea

 

[thenorthern]

The service is fine, and unfortunately on some weekday services it is carting fresh air between Sheffield and Nottingham.

I have an idea that I know people on here straight away will say "what a stupid idea" but what the he'll I might as well go for it.....

On a Sunday they have 1 service going to and from Carlisle, so why not have X amount of service a day (let's say 3) going to Carlisle from Nottingham?

Northern wouldn't lose any customers as it's basically connecting 2 services into 1 calling at all all the stops that it usually does.

Obviously train mileage would be an issue, bit that would leave 1 or maybe 2 units free for other services.

Not all the Leeds expresses go all the way to Nottingham anyway so all it would mean is extending those expresses to Nottingham.

Just an idea and like I said someone will be along in a minute to say what a stupid idea

It would be a useful connection service for both the East Midlands and Carlisle I will give you that and I would certainly use that service.

Only problem I can see is if the train was delayed getting in and out of Leeds that would have a knock on effect for the whole journey.

 

[JonathanH]

The service is fine, and unfortunately on some weekday services it is carting fresh air between Sheffield and Nottingham.

I have an idea that I know people on here straight away will say "what a stupid idea" but what the he'll I might as well go for it.....

On a Sunday they have 1 service going to and from Carlisle, so why not have X amount of service a day (let's say 3) going to Carlisle from Nottingham?

Northern wouldn't lose any customers as it's basically connecting 2 services into 1 calling at all all the stops that it usually does.

Obviously train mileage would be an issue, bit that would leave 1 or maybe 2 units free for other services.

Not all the Leeds expresses go all the way to Nottingham anyway so all it would mean is extending those expresses to Nottingham.

Just an idea and like I said someone will be along in a minute to say what a stupid idea

The biggest problem with linking the Nottingham and Carlisle trains at Leeds would be the need for the service to cross the entire layout at Leeds. The Woodlesford route is the Southernmost at Leeds and the Skipton route the most northerly one (if you ignore the Harrogate line splitting off a few miles out of Leeds).

 

[syorksdeano]

The biggest problem with linking the Nottingham and Carlisle trains at Leeds would be the need for the service to cross the entire layout at Leeds. The Woodlesford route is the Southernmost at Leeds and the Skipton route the most northerly one (if you ignore the Harrogate line splitting off a few miles out of Leeds).

I can't remember which platform it usually goes of on a Sunday but they still manage it.

EDIT: just checked it's platform 8

Yes I know Sundays are usually quiet, but I've been on a service from Sheffield before during the day that has rolled into from what I can remember platform 13.

In fact I remember a few years ago they ran Carlisle to Sheffield on a Saturday as I used to catch it at Shipley.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just an idle thought that occurred to me at 0200 in the morning when I should be asleep in my bed rather being on my favourite website, but if the aspiration for longer trains on the Northern Rail route to Nottingham is considered, do not forget that Northern Rail have not changed their stated position since April 2014 that there are no spare Northern Rail rolling stock units to run on the "Marie Celeste" Todmorden Chord line from Blackburn to Manchester, via the Copy Pit Line.

 

[deltic08]

Good idea, you go get the units, pay for the leasing fees, the maintenance, stabling etc etc and I am sure Northern would be very happy to accept them!

How many threads have we had moaning about northern so far this month?

Yes I know its only the 2nd!

You would think that the number of times we post about the (stupid) way the Northern franchise was let that even the thickest person would know about it by now, but no every couple of weeks its the same old drivel! :roll:

Are you naturally abusive or do you have to work at it. The chap just made a statement as all of us in the North are getting a little ****ed off travelling in crush loaded conditions or being left behind on platforms due to short formed trains that should have been scrapped ten years ago. They are becoming unreliable due to over intensity of use but are bravely being turned out by depots day after day (usually) only through dedication of the fitters. But of course this is the plan together with above inflation fare increases to choke off demand and growth.

£1.3 billion for a tunnel under Stonehenge, again big bucks projects in the South of England, would have bought a lot of electrification or new DMUs for local journeys the North.