Northern short train during closure

[Camden]

On way into Manchester from Liverpool this morning. The 0700 temporary replacement for the 0717 and 0720 Northern services operated by 319s and the 0715 TPEx have been collectively replaced by a single 156.

An incoming 319 suggests that power is no issue. Predictably all seats already taken out of Lime Street. Only another 15 stops to go... If this is a planned replacement it seems a pretty contemptuous provision to me.

 

[Moonshot]

On way into Manchester from Liverpool this morning. The 0700 temporary replacement for the 0717 and 0720 Northern services operated by 319s and the 0715 TPEx have been collectively replaced by a single 156.

An incoming 319 suggests that power is no issue. Predictably all seats already taken out of Lime Street. Only another 15 stops to go... If this is a planned replacement it seems a pretty contemptuous provision to me.

One of the 319s failed earlier

 

[Camden]

Just the one? The 0800 is also cancelled. Despite losing time due to crowding and leaving people behind, the guard seems oblivious not mentioning the crowding once.

Can someone confirm this is an emergency replacement and not what they plan to do each day.

 

[Moonshot]

Only one that I'm aware of, there are also some issues getting trains out of depot this morning. We do not cancel trains unless there is a genuine reason to do so, and replacing a 4 car train with a 2 car one is better than none at all.

 

[Camden]

What are the issues getting trains out of depot, given the copious number of 319s to choose from?

2 carriages better than none? Tell that to those that couldn't get on! Please leave the defensiveness out of it.

Please can someone categorically confirm (not guess) whether this is an emergency replacement or not, thanks.

 

[Moonshot]

What are the issues getting trains out of depot, given the copious number of 319s to choose from?

2 carriages better than none? Tell that to those that couldn't get on! Please leave the defensiveness out of it.

Please can someone categorically confirm (not guess) whether this is an emergency replacement or not, thanks.

I'm not defending anything, I'm simply pointing out some facts. Not sure why you should be concerned, your on your way and seated. This just seems to be have a go at Northern thread.

 

[Scotrail84]

Just the one? The 0800 is also cancelled. Despite losing time due to crowding and leaving people behind, the guard seems oblivious not mentioning the crowding once.

Can someone confirm this is an emergency replacement and not what they plan to do each day.

Whats the guard meant to do or say about it, do you think the guard likes being on that train in that situation? I doubt it! It most certainly is not his/her fault there was a failure and replacement set is short formed. Stop whining and be thankful there is a train, albeit a shorter one than normal and you got on it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Whats the guard meant to do or say about it? It most certainly is not his/her fault there was a failure and replacement set is short formed. Stop whining and be thankful there is a train, albeit a shorter one than normal and you got on it.

Well, it would be good for them to apologise on behalf of the Company and give the reason, though it's a fair point that at present it would be a somewhat empty apology.

 

[Scotrail84]

Well, it would be good for them to apologise on behalf of the Company and give the reason, though it's a fair point that at present it would be a somewhat empty apology.

Are the Northern guards not in dispute with the company just now? I'm sure they're more than willing to apologise on behalf of their companies incompetence.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are the Northern guards not in dispute with the company just now? I'm sure they're more than willing to apologise on behalf of their companies incompetence.

Being in dispute does not absolve them of the requirement to do their job completely and correctly when they are not on strike. Almost certainly this requires certain PA announcements to be made.

 

[Camden]

I'm more interested in answers at this stage on here.

Lots of questions still without answers.

Is this short train a deliberate choice which will also happen tomorrow?

And if not, what exactly happened?

And if not, what stopped them using one of the other 319s lying unused at Allerton? Have they got enough staff in the right place at the right time?

 

[SSp]

I think we're just going to have to get used to it. At least you don't live in Staveley.

 

[Camden]

Are the Northern guards not in dispute with the company just now? I'm sure they're more than willing to apologise on behalf of their companies incompetence.

Didn't realise human decency came at a cash cost, sorry.

 

[chrissawer]

From Twitter "About a hundred people just haven't been able to get on the train at Lea Green with the next one cancelled and no train to Manchester for two hours."

https://twitter.com/Kizzielelly/status/1006063635075039233

I think this is referring to the same train. RTT shows she is correct about the next one being cancelled.

Sounds like a pretty poor service for those travelling east on that line this morning.

 

[DarloRich]

I'm more interested in answers at this stage on here.

Lots of questions still without answers.

Is this short train a deliberate choice which will also happen tomorrow?

And if not, what exactly happened?

And if not, what stopped them using one of the other 319s lying unused at Allerton? Have they got enough staff in the right place at the right time?

Great to see that the department of messing things up is working well. I love it when a plan comes together. I hope to be promoted to Director level soon Now where is that de wirement button...............

I will point out this is a fan website where people MAY share information rather than an official organ of the company. Posters are under no obligations. I suspect it is more cock up than conspiracy not aided by the current issue son Northern.

 

[northwichcat]

The short services have got the attention of both ITV Granada Reports and Manchester Metro Mayor Andy Burnham.

 

[cactustwirly]

Whats the guard meant to do or say about it, do you think the guard likes being on that train in that situation? I doubt it! It most certainly is not his/her fault there was a failure and replacement set is short formed. Stop whining and be thankful there is a train, albeit a shorter one than normal and you got on it.

The guard could atleast apologise for the overcrowding.
He isn't whining, as it is unacceptable that this has happened, given there is a blockade there should be more 319s available than usual.
One shouldn't have to be thankful there is a train, if you have paid for a ticket, then it is not unreasonable to expect to travel on it!

 

[Polarbear]

Just wondering if it's possible to use anything that's currently stables at Allerton? I appreciate Lime Street has partially reopened, but does that include access to the Allerton depot?

 

[Darandio]

Just wondering if it's possible to use anything that's currently stables at Allerton? I appreciate Lime Street has partially reopened, but does that include access to the Allerton depot?

Allerton is still in use.

 

[Moonshot]

The guard could atleast apologise for the overcrowding.
He isn't whining, as it is unacceptable that this has happened, given there is a blockade there should be more 319s available than usual.
One shouldn't have to be thankful there is a train, if you have paid for a ticket, then it is not unreasonable to expect to travel on it!

Which is what happened anyway.

 

[Darandio]

Which is what happened anyway.

Well some didn't, at least not on the one they wanted. And if those that didn't eventually did, it wouldn't have been for some time after!

You can surely understand why people are getting irate recently?

 

[Moonshot]

Well some didn't, at least not on the one they wanted. And if those that didn't eventually did, it wouldn't have been for some time after!

You can surely understand why people are getting irate recently?

Yes...the ones who were late getting to work are generally irate....that will never change. Just like the fact there will always be issues somewhere on the network, because that is the nature of the beast.

 

[Camden]

The glib responses shows who matters least in all this. Telling that no answers to the simple questions put have yet been provided. Perhaps a 156 tomorrow morning will be the answer, in keeping with the theme.

Whichever way you look at it, it cannot simply be "one of those things" in this instance.

Northern and its staff had one job to do at the station to play its part in keeping the region moving in the Lime Street closure. With a number of services not operating, that should logically mean with more, not less, capacity and equipment to deliver.

As for the matter at hand, if anyone knows what the deal actually is with this, answers would be appreciated.

 

[Moonshot]

The glib responses shows who matters least in all this. Telling that no answers to the simple questions put have yet been provided. Perhaps a 156 tomorrow morning will be the answer, in keeping with the theme.

Whichever way you look at it, it cannot simply be "one of those things" in this instance.

Northern and its staff had one job to do at the station to play its part in keeping the region moving in the Lime Street closure. With a number of services not operating, that should logically mean with more, not less, capacity and equipment to deliver.

As for the matter at hand, if anyone knows what the deal actually is with this, answers would be appreciated.

Except that you are not privy to the bigger picture. As for what could happen tomorrow, it could be a 319 or any combination of diesels. I note one of the 319 diagrams was running as a 4 car diesel earlier....suspect the one you was one was in fact strengthened later on

 

[Loop & Link]

A few things:

319442 failed yesterday on Huyton - Man Vic services.

As a result, Man Vic, -1 start of service this morning for 319’s. Shortage of drivers yesterday, so no one available to ferry a 319 from elsewhere for start of service, if there were spares available anyway.

Access from Allerton to Liverpool Lime Street limited, due to single line working in place, hard to path an additional ECS move into Lime Street now, without knocking another service, in fact the only way would be delaying a service, or turning a train back at Edge Hill/Huyton to accommodate the move, so pointless.

Also Platform 2, has been reduced and can only accommodate 1 x 319 so no scope for it to attach to an existing ECS, without playing round with the platforms or delaying something.

Hope this clears a few things.

 

[Camden]

As a result, Man Vic, -1 start of service this morning for 319’s. Shortage of drivers yesterday, so no one available to ferry a 319 from elsewhere for start of service, if there were spares available anyway.

As I suspected, it all sounds entirely avoidable given the circumstances.

 

[Moonshot]

As I suspected, it all sounds entirely avoidable given the circumstances.

If it was avoidable we would be doing it.

 

[DarloRich]

The glib responses shows who matters least in all this. Telling that no answers to the simple questions put have yet been provided. Perhaps a 156 tomorrow morning will be the answer, in keeping with the theme.

Whichever way you look at it, it cannot simply be "one of those things" in this instance.

Northern and its staff had one job to do at the station to play its part in keeping the region moving in the Lime Street closure. With a number of services not operating, that should logically mean with more, not less, capacity and equipment to deliver.

As for the matter at hand, if anyone knows what the deal actually is with this, answers would be appreciated.

What answers do you expect to get from an independent fan website? I think you misunderstand the status of RUK! To expect someone to break their contract and disclose confidential information ( in the view of their employer) seems a bit much. And yes it is one of those things sadly. Sheet happens. Things break. People go sick, etc.

 

[221129]

As I suspected, it all sounds entirely avoidable given the circumstances.

Not really.

 

[Moonshot]

What answers do you expect to get from an independent fan website? I think you misunderstand the status of RUK! To expect someone to break their contract and disclose confidential information ( in the view of their employer) seems a bit much. And yes it is one of those things sadly. Sheet happens. Things break. People go sick, etc.

indeed....and are we likely to short form services in the future? Absolutely.....it will happen somewhere pretty much every day. Thats the reality