Northern short train during closure

[Moonshot]

I don't know, how many sets of crew would be not be required due to services terminating at Manchester? I suspect not as many as you might imagine. And even those not booked for training may still be required to turn around services, perhaps help with timetable recovery etc. In all honesty very few of us know for certain, only the crews and their respective management teams will know the details. But I suspect just sticking them onto some short runs part way along the Chat Moss was not an option, and no matter how much people here think they could make it work it isn't going to happen.

Some of the TPE trains are being parked in the bays at Victoria, and crew are taking breaks in the Northern mess rooms.

 

[Darandio]

Posting a " complaint" on here is not going to make a scrap of difference ...as I have pointed out, the service is as advertised just for now and for very good reason. However, we can't take our eye of what we are trying to achieve longer term. Once everything is 100% in place ( infrastructure, trains and staff) , all the current issues will be forgotten about

And an equally random person telling people 'it's gonna be alright' isn't going to make a scrap of difference either. It's not for you to tell them where to post their grievances.

 

[30907]

But this is exactly my point. If TPE normally run 2 TPH the whole.way from Manchester to Liverpool, why had they no plans from the outset to run even part of the route during the disruption ? What if anything are their trains and crews doing in the meantime ?

I thought the 2 units spare were covering the Mk 3 diagrams (that were originally planned)?

 

[Moonshot]

And an equally random person telling people 'it's gonna be alright' isn't going to make a scrap of difference either. It's not for you to tell them where to post their grievances.

It's a public forum. And save for the actual rules of this forum, I can post whatever I like..but in any event, nothing on here is going to alter the fact that the service is what it is right now. I'm no random person, I actually work in this industry unlike a lot on here, and I can guarantee you that despite the current issues which are now calming down, the reality is that we are all working to an end point of more electric trains running in the North West. That will happen regardless.

 

[Darandio]

It's a public forum. And save for the actual rules of this forum, I can post whatever I like..

That was my point.

 

[Bantamzen]

Some of the TPE trains are being parked in the bays at Victoria, and crew are taking breaks in the Northern mess rooms.

Oh you tell-tale you.....

Seriously though, would it even be feasible for TPE to extend beyond Victoria during the blockade, especially given their problems elsewhere along the core & onto the east & north east? I'm sure TPE crew & managers alike are glad of the opportunity to gain some slack in the North TP timetable (I just hope they are not stealing Northern's biscuits!)

 

[B&I]

I don't know, how many sets of crew would be not be required due to services terminating at Manchester? I suspect not as many as you might imagine. And even those not booked for training may still be required to turn around services, perhaps help with timetable recovery etc. In all honesty very few of us know for certain, only the crews and their respective management teams will know the details. But I suspect just sticking them onto some short runs part way along the Chat Moss was not an option, and no matter how much people here think they could make it work it isn't going to happen.

Maybe it wasn't. However, just because a TOC has done something, that is not a reason to assume there was a good reason for it doing it

 

[B&I]

Oh you tell-tale you.....

Seriously though, would it even be feasible for TPE to extend beyond Victoria during the blockade, especially given their problems elsewhere along the core & onto the east & north east? I'm sure TPE crew & managers alike are glad of the opportunity to gain some slack in the North TP timetable (I just hope they are not stealing Northern's biscuits!)

So if this is the nub of the matter, and TPE has abandoned any service to Liverpool in a bid to rescue its unworkable and unnecessary 6 TPH service between Manchester and Leeds, aren't Liverpool travellers entitled to feel aggrieved ?

 

[Moonshot]

So if this is the nub of the matter, and TPE has abandoned any service to Liverpool in a bid to rescue its unworkable and unnecessary 6 TPH service between Manchester and Leeds, aren't Liverpool travellers entitled to feel aggrieved ?

Aggrieved or not, until such time services to Lime Street can be re introduced, the timetable is as advertised. Would make sense to reintroduce them once all the work is completed at Lime Street.

 

[Bantamzen]

Maybe it wasn't. However, just because a TOC has done something, that is not a reason to assume there was a good reason for it doing it

Conversely just because a TOC has made a decision, doesn't mean that they could or should have done better.

So if this is the nub of the matter, and TPE has abandoned any service to Liverpool in a bid to rescue its unworkable and unnecessary 6 TPH service between Manchester and Leeds, aren't Liverpool travellers entitled to feel aggrieved ?

I seriously doubt they planned their Liverpool blockade strategy after the May timetable changes just to put some recovery time in. Far more likely was that this current timetable suited their turnarounds originally, but in light of the subsequent problems prior to Liverpool being blocked might have given them a little welcome breathing room.

There has been a mass of debate about the reasons for the May timetable collapse, partly due to late running works, partly due to late running cascades, partly due to drivers learning new routes / stops and for previous reasons some of this not taking place on time, and finally partly due to the seemingly lack of a contingency. Quite honestly anyone reading and contributing to this forum can, and should be able to come to a logical conclusion that it has been as a result of a number of events that all this has come to a head.

It may be no consolation to those affected of course, but this isn't the first time nor will it be the last. Our railway network is mass of complex issues running across numerous bodies and companies, with a serious amount of infrastructural upgrade needed. This I'm afraid is the legacy of the way our network has been privatised & franchised out. Public transport in general is dysfunctional at best across networks & modes, and will continue to be so long as the current franchising system stays in play. People are demanding answers, but when they are given do not like them. So they demand heads to roll & for franchises to be stripped of TOCs, but in truth this will do little good. Take it off one and give to another will not take away all the complex reasons for these failures, it might make it even more prone to do so.

Basically if people feel aggrieved, and I know they do, rant by all means but do so to the people who put the system in place in the first instance, i.e. the government & in particular the DfT. These are the people who can really affect change by better investing in the network, negotiating better contractual arrangements & working smarter with whomever they contract to run the network.

 

[bb21]

I think that's enough bickering.