Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Noting the title of this thread, is there nowhere within the area of the Northern franchise that could facilitate heavy overhauls of the Class 319 units?
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Northern rolling stock changes post electrification
- Thread starter Islineclear3_1
- Start date
- Status
Noting the title of this thread, is there nowhere within the area of the Northern franchise that could facilitate heavy overhauls of the Class 319 units?
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
SpacePhoenix
Established Member
- Joined
- 18 Mar 2014
- Messages
- 5,491
If all the 319s were to eventually goto 1 single TOC to live out their remaining life, which TOC would likely get them and why?
I doubt that there is a single TOC requirement for 86 4-car EMUs outside the south-east. It may be a Porterbrook wish to have them all in one place but the service needs of TOCs override that. Limited cannibalising may take place in about 5 years.
Northern (and its successor TOC, maybe including some of that which is now TPE), has the need that best fits the largest number of them though. A few more of them may allow the northern TOC to shuffle some of the West Yorks stock for better fit, particulalry when the TPE electrification eventually gets done. That would make mothballing some of the 319s until the delayed wiring is complete worthwhile.
D365
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 13,157
Should it really matter? There's 250-odd EMUs of Mk3 heritage and only one TOC who used them all at once...
Oh right, British Rail doesn't count
Oh right, British Rail doesn't count
northwichcat
Veteran Member
There's some other considerations with regards to Northern:
- With TPE electrification being delayed, it would be easier to send Leeds based EMUs to Peterborough or even London for heavy maintenance than it would be to send them to Manchester or Liverpool.
- The 333s are staying put in West Yorkshire until at least the latter part of 2020, longer if Metro can arrange a funding deal to keep them there for longer.
- 319s apparently can't accelerate as quickly as 323s which will cause issues, especially on Stoke and Glossop services.
- 319s also don't have the air conditioning and power sockets required for the Regional Express service. Could those be fitted to 319s without making the performance even worse?
- Northern will have services where 4 x 20m EMUs will provide insufficient capacity. With the 319s not having SDO or corridor connectors it means 319s are unsuitable for certain services without infrastructure work being undertaken. Network Rail only factored in 6 x 24m workings on the Bolton corridor in their CP5 delivery plan (and even suggested DMUs might have to remain on some services if Northern only get 4 x 20m trains), so where's the extra money for Network Rail going to come from to use 319s on those services?
Paul seemed to be referring to 319s being heavily refurbished if Northern 321/2s go to Anglia and get a heavy refurbishment.
What should be noted is if 319s start replacing 321/2/3s they will run on busy parts of the WCML and ECML. If a train fails at Alderley Edge, Prestbury, Leyland, Adwick (South Yorks) etc. then that could potentially be worse than a 350/2 failing at somewhere like Leighton Buzzard.
Sometimes TOCs will subcontract the overhauls and some heavy maintenance out. Northern do the majority of it inhouse but Allerton are unable then there my suggestions would be
Wabtec Doncaster (diesel hauled over the pennines if required)
Crewe LNWR
Alstom Longsight (Normally busy but have done 175 overhauls)
Heaton
Bombardier Crewe?
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Bombardier Crofton? Hitachi Newton Aycliffe?
Okay, that last one is highly unlikely!
childwallblues
Established Member
319375 moved from Wolverton Works to Allerton today. Its place at Wolverton Works has been taken by 319366 which in recent months has been the training unit for Wigan crews based at Preston.
Stonesourscotty
Member
Has a unit replaced the 319 at Preston or are they all fully trained?
childwallblues
Established Member
Recently training has been taking place on service trains between Wigan and Liverpool.
158722
Member
- Joined
- 8 Nov 2009
- Messages
- 831
So Northern now have 15 319s with 5 to come - 4 in Wolverton (366/376/377/378) and 1 to go (379) which is/was the static Stockport trainer.
319425 for TSGN and 319013/460 for LM also meant to be at Wolverton - not sure been any more updates on comings/goings.
319425 for TSGN and 319013/460 for LM also meant to be at Wolverton - not sure been any more updates on comings/goings.
thealexweb
Member
- Joined
- 5 Jan 2014
- Messages
- 1,106
I passed the Preston sidings at 17:15 and there was Northern Electric branded Class 319365 in the siding the First Capital Connect branded unit was previously located.
DJH1971
Established Member
Wonder how 'Northern Powercut' (aka 319362) faired?
jonesy3001
Established Member
thealexweb
Member
- Joined
- 5 Jan 2014
- Messages
- 1,106
Oh. That explains why it was there. Never mind XD
156441
Member
They got 368 going again with 1 group of traction motors isolated.
It did however limp back with 'many fault relays tripped' .
Bit of masking tape and it'll be back on Monday.
It did however limp back with 'many fault relays tripped' .
Bit of masking tape and it'll be back on Monday.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
319368 - an old friend (not) - had a few failures on this thing as a passenger - one tends to remember the ones that let you down on Thameslnk - 319451 and 319372 other "non favourites" ...personal view , maybe just unlucky ....
thealexweb
Member
- Joined
- 5 Jan 2014
- Messages
- 1,106
I only got a quick look at it. I may have got the number wrong I guess :/
childwallblues
Established Member
319383 has been in service for some weeks.
Thomas6187
Member
After doing static tests at Stockport CS a few weeks ago, Northern will be testing a 319/323 combo overnight, with several runs between the Airport and Piccadilly. The units are 323230 and 319363.
D365
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 13,157
How is that going to be of much use when Northern are due to be losing their 323s before the end of the decade?
Or are they doing some kind of advance testing for Birmingham?
childwallblues
Established Member
Agreed. Could be needed between Slade Lane Junction and the Airport,
Thomas6187
Member
After a 319 failed on the Airport Line last month, and blocked the line for over an hour, it would prove useful for a 323 to rescue a 319.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
How is that going to be of much use when Northern are due to be losing their 323s before the end of the decade?
Or are they doing some kind of advance testing for Birmingham?
Northern have the 323s until the end of the franchise.
There was major disruption when a 319 failed on at one of the two busiest platforms at Piccadilly just before the evening peak (which was the unit George Osborne name Northern Powerhouse :roll
so maybe Northern are trying to avoid such incidents happening again. Attaching a 323 to it and moving it in to the Mayfield loop or platform 3A at Stockport would have prevented the problems from being as severe.
Last edited by a moderator:
Greybeard33
Established Member
On the other hand, the much-discussed platforms at Salford Crescent, which are not quite long enough for a 8-car double 319, could accommodate a 150m 7-car 319+323 combo - if Northern's successor manages to hang on to the 323s! 
- Status