Northern rolling stock changes post electrification

[nw-sparks]

No changes showing yet on OpenTrainTimes. Although, I've noticed there's already some Liverpool-Preston only services particularly at peak times so it could be with some timetabling/diagramming revisions* those services could switch to 319s freeing up a couple of trains to use as extra capacity for other services.

Actually, the changes are beginning to trickle into the database. I've currently got a peculiar Saturday service from 10 October to 12 December which has hourly trains from South Parkway to Blackpool, and hourly trains Preston to South Parkway! Presumably the rest of the changes will come in the next few days. RTT wisely doesn't show trains this far in the future.

P.S. The new schedules are still timed for "Class 150, 153, 155, or 156".

 

[12CSVT]

379 is still in FCC guise and is a demic.

319379 isn't the only DEMIC given the amount of cancellations on the Thameslink route due to 'train faults'

 

[northwichcat]

Actually, the changes are beginning to trickle into the database. I've currently got a peculiar Saturday service from 10 October to 12 December which has hourly trains from South Parkway to Blackpool, and hourly trains Preston to South Parkway! Presumably the rest of the changes will come in the next few days. RTT wisely doesn't show trains this far in the future.

P.S. The new schedules are still timed for "Class 150, 153, 155, or 156".

It's looking like (at the moment) there will be more Liverpool-Preston services as a result of the changes. Some hours instead of one Liverpool South Parkway-Blackpool service there will be one Liverpool South Parkway-Preston service and one Liverpool Lime Street-Blackpool service. Other hours they'll be Preston-Liverpool Lime Street services, which seem to be timed to interwork with Lime Street to Warrington Bank Quay services.

 

[samj]

In addition to that, I have noticed that The current Preston-Hazel Grove services start at Blackpool North. I guess this is as a replacement of the Liverpool service, still providing 4 trains per hour to/from Blackpool North, Poulton etc. The turn around time at Preston for the Liverpool services is only 4 minutes though. Would that be possible? Would they use platform 1/2 or the southern bays?

 

[Bevan Price]

In addition to that, I have noticed that The current Preston-Hazel Grove services start at Blackpool North. I guess this is as a replacement of the Liverpool service, still providing 4 trains per hour to/from Blackpool North, Poulton etc. The turn around time at Preston for the Liverpool services is only 4 minutes though. Would that be possible? Would they use platform 1/2 or the southern bays?

There is already one such service.
08:28 Liverpool - Preston (due 09:26)
09:30 Preston - South Parkway.

4 minute turnround only works if everything else is on time.

Occasionally the return working reaches St. Helens on time. Usual cause of delays seems to be to northbound service, held at Springs Branch, waiting for late-running trains on WCML, or signal checks in Preston area due to late running by other services. It normally uses Platform 2 at Preston.

 

[nw-sparks]

It's looking like (at the moment) there will be more Liverpool-Preston services as a result of the changes. Some hours instead of one Liverpool South Parkway-Blackpool service there will be one Liverpool South Parkway-Preston service and one Liverpool Lime Street-Blackpool service. Other hours they'll be Preston-Liverpool Lime Street services, which seem to be timed to interwork with Lime Street to Warrington Bank Quay services.

Interesting, where did you see that?

Actually, I've no idea what is going on at the moment. The timetable was updated earlier this week to remove most through Liverpool - Blackpool workings, terminating them at Preston. Then each day I'm getting VSTP updates restoring the through workings. So if you looked early this morning, today's 12:03 off South Parkway was to Preston. But at 09:30 it was extended to Blackpool.

Totally confused!

Has anyone seen any 319s on these yet? Have we had a 319 in passenger service at South Parkway?

 

[northwichcat]

Interesting, where did you see that?

Actually, I've no idea what is going on at the moment. The timetable was updated earlier this week to remove most through Liverpool - Blackpool workings, terminating them at Preston. Then each day I'm getting VSTP updates restoring the through workings. So if you looked early this morning, today's 12:03 off South Parkway was to Preston. But at 09:30 it was extended to Blackpool.

Totally confused!

Has anyone seen any 319s on these yet? Have we had a 319 in passenger service at South Parkway?

I searched on Friday 9th October yesterday.

319s are only in service on Liverpool-Victoria/Airport/Wigan services at the moment. There aren't even enough 319s in service to cover the Warrington BQ services never mind Preston services. It wasn't the intention to have 319s on those services before the leaf-fall timetable starts.

 

[WatcherZero]

It is intended they will be phased in before the start of the winter timetable, i.e. every month a few more services move over to electric.

 

[DJH1971]

319379 isn't the only demic given the amount of cancellations on the thameslink route due to 'train faults'

demic? :?

 

[Bevan Price]

I searched on Friday 9th October yesterday.

319s are only in service on Liverpool-Victoria/Airport/Wigan services at the moment. There aren't even enough 319s in service to cover the Warrington BQ services never mind Preston services. It wasn't the intention to have 319s on those services before the leaf-fall timetable starts.

The 18:00 (SX) Liverpool - Preston is also a 319, which I think has been posted before. Booked to return ecs to Wigan on the next day (also SX). So far, this is the only booked passenger working north of Wigan.

 

[playboy81]

are all services from Liverpool to Man Airport and Wigan NW now operated by 319s? Will all services out of Liverpool eventually be operated by 319s? I assume that they will eventually be fully refurbished by the next franchise holder?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

demic? :?

I'm not sure of the etymology of the term, but I believe it refers to a unit/loco that is in some way defective and therefore beyond use, or one which suffers recurring failures or breakdowns. "Christmas Tree" is a similar term (though usually specific to a unit that has been dumped in a depot or siding for a long period of time), and I'm not sure of the origin of that terminology either.

 

[childwallblues]

are all services from Liverpool to Man Airport and Wigan NW now operated by 319s? Will all services out of Liverpool eventually be operated by 319s? I assume that they will eventually be fully refurbished by the next franchise holder?

No there are a number of diesel turns. Two that I know of are
0739 MCV-LIV - On Tuesday it was a 156/142 combination
1903 M-F WGN-LIV Booked for a pair of 142s

 

[Class377/5]

I'm not sure of the etymology of the term, but I believe it refers to a unit/loco that is in some way defective and therefore beyond use, or one which suffers recurring failures or breakdowns. "Christmas Tree" is a similar term (though usually specific to a unit that has been dumped in a depot or siding for a long period of time), and I'm not sure of the origin of that terminology either.

Christmas Tree is a unit used for parts other units, ie gives gifts from itself hence the tree nickname.

 

[driver9000]

In addition to that, I have noticed that The current Preston-Hazel Grove services start at Blackpool North. I guess this is as a replacement of the Liverpool service, still providing 4 trains per hour to/from Blackpool North, Poulton etc. The turn around time at Preston for the Liverpool services is only 4 minutes though. Would that be possible? Would they use platform 1/2 or the southern bays?

The bay platforms are too short.

 

[swt_passenger]

demic? :?

It's probably a slang term originally derived from academic - but I believe many rail enthusiasts wrongly think its some sort of a real word.

 

[Geeves]

Gets used plenty of times by staff at Northern to describe our lovely new electrics I can assure you!

 

[transmanche]

It's probably a slang term originally derived from academic - but I believe many rail enthusiasts wrongly think its some sort of a real word.

Interestingly (whilst it's not in a proper dictionary) it does appear in Urban Dictionary (a crowd-sourced dictionary of slang words and phrases) in an entry dating from 2005:

Not fit for purpose.
Applies to both people and objects.

That car of yours is demic - it's always breaking down.

 

[snowball]

My father, who died in 1998, used to use the word "demic", and he wasn't a railway enthusiast.

 

[swt_passenger]

My father, who died in 1998, used to use the word "demic", and he wasn't a railway enthusiast.

I didn't say it was necessarily a 'railway originated' slang term. It seems to have been adopted by the railway, but you won't find it in the usual dictionaries, as transmanche has pointed out earlier.

 

[snowball]

It will probably get into the OED in time: they claim to record usage, not to dictate it. But some entries haven't been reviewed for several decades.

 

[AM9]

I didn't say it was necessarily a 'railway originated' slang term. It seems to have been adopted by the railway, but you won't find it in the usual dictionaries, as transmanche has pointed out earlier.

The link that transmanche posted was for the word 'demi' not demic'. Could demic be a corruption of 'endemic' meaning the 319 was common in the area, in a rather pejorative way?

 

[TheKnightWho]

It will probably get into the OED in time: they claim to record usage, not to dictate it. But some entries haven't been reviewed for several decades.

They're only revising the current 2nd edition from 1989 very slowly, with most changes being additional entries rather than changes to old ones. The entire thing is getting a lookover for the 3rd edition in the works though - due to be published in 2037.

 

[Bevan Price]

No there are a number of diesel turns. Two that I know of are
0739 MCV-LIV - On Tuesday it was a 156/142 combination
1903 M-F WGN-LIV Booked for a pair of 142s

Not sure about midweek, but on saturdays, the 07:42 Lime St. - Man Vic is dmu.

And at the opposite extreme, on SX, the 20:03 Wigan - Liverpool Lime St. is booked for a pair of 319s, although one set is locked out of use - this effectively saves an ecs movement from Wigan to Liverpool. - it is the stock off the 18:32 Lime St. - Wigan NW.

 

[transmanche]

The link that transmanche posted was for the word 'demi' not demic'.

That was a simple cut & paste error, which I have now fixed. (It was only a 'c' missing from the end of the URL...)

 

[deltic08]

The link that transmanche posted was for the word 'demi' not demic'. Could demic be a corruption of 'endemic' meaning the 319 was common in the area, in a rather pejorative way?

If it is describing new 319 electrics at Northern, I would say it is derived from pandemic?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If it is describing new 319 electrics at Northern, I would say it is derived from pandemic?

It's in the Network Rail jargon buster: https://www.safety.networkrail.co.uk/Services/Jargon-Buster/D/DA-DE/DEMIC

DEMIC
Derived from former telegraphic code indicating a failed train

 

[childwallblues]

If it is describing new 319 electrics at Northern, I would say it is derived from pandemic?

Living in Ripon have you crossed the Pennines and travelled on one yet? I can tell you that they are much better than any dmu that we have had to endure in the past thirty years. They are faster, quieter and being four car units you can get a seat on them.

 

[deltic08]

Living in Ripon have you crossed the Pennines and travelled on one yet? I can tell you that they are much better than any dmu that we have had to endure in the past thirty years. They are faster, quieter and being four car units you can get a seat on them.

What are you trying to say here and what relevance is Ripon to the discussion?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What are you trying to say here and what relevance is Ripon to the discussion?

It makes me really feel my age when I realise that Ripon railway station has been closed to passengers since 6th March 1967, before its final closure in 1969...