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Northern rolling stock changes post electrification

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childwallblues

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What are you trying to say here and what relevance is Ripon to the discussion?
Far from it. I do however like to think that people have experienced the subject, not just here say.
The 319s are here for a good few years to come and people in the Liverpool/Wigan/Manchester area do appreciate them. Reliability issues may well be due to Allerton Depot having to learn the vageries of the new units whilst still maintaining the 156s. However there have been some incidents mainly OHL that can be put at NRs door.
 
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AM9

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What are you trying to say here and what relevance is Ripon to the discussion?

Surely it's rather obvious what he is trying to say; if it isn't to you, let me explain:

Your profile states that you are located in Ripon which is at least 50 miles from anywhere that the 319s have operated in passenger service. It is a reasonable assumption that you wouldn't have used the trains in your day-to-day journeys, but of course that could be wrong so there was a simple question asking that.
The question is relevant to this thread but it seems that you have a problem in answering it and prefer to ask another unrelated one.
 

deltic08

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If it is describing new 319 electrics at Northern, I would say it is derived from pandemic?

Oh dear. I was hoping someone on here would get it but I suppose it is too subtle so I will have to spell it out for you. PAN demic, you know that thing on the roof of trains that picks up the juice.
 
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AM9

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Oh dear. I was hoping someone on here would get it but I suppose it is too subtle so I will have to spell it out for you. PAN demic, you know that thing on the roof of trains that picks up the juice.

As in saucepan, bedpan etc.. well I've always called them 'Pantographs', because that's their actual name. PAN can mean anything.
 

deltic08

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As in saucepan, bedpan etc.. well I've always called them 'Pantographs', because that's their actual name. PAN can mean anything.

Not on this forum and not out on the railway as it is always referred to as the pan and panhead rubbing strip.
 

158722

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Seem to have lost track, but are any more 319's set to come to Northern, if there are any left set to come up?

14 delivered and in traffic, plus 319375-378 all in Wolverton since May for Northern as well as trainers 366/379, which should head to works soon (at a guess, once 375/376 done as they have been in works since May 5th). These being the extra 6 required for October.
 

physics34

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apart from the SE and LM units, we still dont know where the remaining 319s are going i take it.
 
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edwin_m

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Any news on a complete refurbishment or will the new TOC in 2016 lead that program?

Presumably for the new TOC. They might want to upgrade them to a more luxurious spec for longer journeys, or continue with a commuter-style interior, or even split the fleet.

Does anyone even know if Northern's lease on the 319s runs beyond the end of the current direct award period?
 

507021

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Does anyone even know if Northern's lease on the 319s runs beyond the end of the current direct award period?

According to the Porterbrook website the current lease on Northern's Class 319s runs until February 7th 2016
 

158722

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34 is a lot more plausible than 40.
The bids on the table at DfT might say something different, of course, especially if they don't include retaining 323s.

There is a considerable debate about Northern's EMU requirement on the thread about the possibility of Northern's 323 moving to LM, which may fit this thread too.

Rather than repeat everything from there, best guesstimates are for a requirement of around 50-52 EMU diagrams in the North west from 2017/18 onwards, suggesting a fleet size of around 60 units. This estimate includes everything worked by 319s and 323s at present and projected services on the soon to wired lines.
 

hwl

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There is a considerable debate about Northern's EMU requirement on the thread about the possibility of Northern's 323 moving to LM, which may fit this thread too.

Rather than repeat everything from there, best guesstimates are for a requirement of around 50-52 EMU diagrams in the North west from 2017/18 onwards, suggesting a fleet size of around 60 units. This estimate includes everything worked by 319s and 323s at present and projected services on the soon to wired lines.

Northern also have few 321s and 322s which might also be worth swapping for 319s to produce a common fleet?

Heavily refurbished (similar to demonstration unit?) 321s and 322s to the future Anglia franchise?
 

northwichcat

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Northern also have few 321s and 322s which might also be worth swapping for 319s to produce a common fleet?

Although without Manchester-Leeds electrification the Yorkshire EMUs would have to continue to be maintained at a separate depot to the North West EMUs.
 

hwl

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Although without Manchester-Leeds electrification the Yorkshire EMUs would have to continue to be maintained at a separate depot to the North West EMUs.

Indeed but common spare parts and presumably centralised heavy overhauls till transpennine electrification is finished.
 

northwichcat

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Indeed but common spare parts and presumably centralised heavy overhauls till transpennine electrification is finished.

I think for centralised heavy overhauls you've have to do one of:
  • Use diesel locos to move the units around
  • Find a place where you can get between the WCML and ECML using electrified lines - Edinburgh being the most obvious place
  • Transport them by road
 

jonesy3001

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is 319366 an ornament or does it go runs now and again, seen it at preston carriage sidings this afternoon with 319361 parked next to it, pic on link below.
 

WatcherZero

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I thought the Preston one did dynamic training while it was the Stockport one that was static.
 

Loop & Link

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366 does runs between Preston & Carnforth, 379 is at Stockport static and 361 is today 0603 Wigan-Lime St etc
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Northern also have few 321s and 322s which might also be worth swapping for 319s to produce a common fleet? Heavily refurbished (similar to demonstration unit?) 321s and 322s to the future Anglia franchise?

If such a "heavily refurbished" requirement is to be expected for those Class 321 and Class 322 units to go to the future "Anglia" franchise, will the same "heavily refurbished" specification also apply to any Class 319 unit sent to the new "Northern" franchise to replace them?
 

AM9

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If such a "heavily refurbished" requirement is to be expected for those Class 321 and Class 322 units to go to the future "Anglia" franchise, will the same "heavily refurbished" specification also apply to any Class 319 unit sent to the new "Northern" franchise to replace them?

Not necessarily. EMUs on the GEML, like most of those on commuter routes in the south-east get very heavy use. In most cases, on long lines without diversion loops that are full of trains on minimum headways, breakdowns can cause costly major disruption for the rest of the peak period, so great steps are taken to reduce the liklelyhood of such failures where that additional cost is a small price to pay.
Compare this to the 319's easy life in the north-west, where breakdowns can usually be dealt with fairly easily with the possible exception of Castlefields to the throat of Piccadilly.
The minor failures experienced to date with 319s in the NW have mainly been down to OLE problems and the maintenance learning curve so in a cost-sensitive environment, the 'refresh' was probably the right decision. They are clearly more reliable than the 350/4s when they first arrived so they aren't anywhere near their end of life.
 

snowball

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The North London Incline is probably somewhat less in terms of miles but probably harder to path as it involves busier lines.
 
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