Northern rolling stock changes post electrification

[childwallblues]

319361 and 319380 were on LIV-MIA services yesterday.

 

[158722]

319361 and 319380 were on LIV-MIA services yesterday.

That's 8 been reported in passenger service now, 361-365, 367/68, 380. Refreshed 369, 382 & 386 delivered to Allerton but not reported in service yet.

371 & 374 must be just about ready for release from Wolverton (indeed, aborted attempt for 371 to leave last week - has it left yet?), leaving 383, 375/376 (in order of arrival) in works and just 377/378 plus trainers 366/379 to be done. Getting there towards the total of 20.

As an aside, TSGN 319008 still at Wolverton along with 319220 - any change on those?

 

[Paynetrain]

Does anyone know what the schedule is for the ones thameslink are refurbishing and keeping for the interim? I saw an 8 car 319 at Bedford today which was all refurbished in the gleaming white colour scheme new thameslink stickers...the usual 8 car colour scheme mash up of late is a new refurb one with an ex southern or ex fcc colours. Will thameslink end up with all refurbed 319 trains before intro of 700's is complete?

 

[Loop & Link]

386 was in service yesterday - it had a GSMR fault and was swapped for 361.

 

[westcoaster]

That's 8 been reported in passenger service now, 361-365, 367/68, 380. Refreshed 369, 382 & 386 delivered to Allerton but not reported in service yet.

371 & 374 must be just about ready for release from Wolverton (indeed, aborted attempt for 371 to leave last week - has it left yet?), leaving 383, 375/376 (in order of arrival) in works and just 377/378 plus trainers 366/379 to be done. Getting there towards the total of 20.

As an aside, TSGN 319008 still at Wolverton along with 319220 - any change on those?

319372 has appeared in a fully refurbed state in TSGN livery, only the second /3 to be done.

 

[Clip]

So is everyone happy with these now they have had a ride on them?

 

[northwichcat]

So is everyone happy with these now they have had a ride on them?

Nothing's really changed since the first day of operation judging by comments posted on forums, social media and blogs. Opinion is very mixed - some people think they are polished turds, others think they are an improvement on Sprinters, no-one seems to be blown away by them and I've not seen anyone say they prefer 319s to 323s but a number of people have said they prefer 323s to 319s.

 

[stockport1]

Nothing's really changed since the first day of operation judging by comments posted on forums, social media and blogs. Opinion is very mixed - some people think they are polished turds, others think they are an improvement on Sprinters, no-one seems to be blown away by them and I've not seen anyone say they prefer 319s to 323s but a number of people have said they prefer 323s to 319s.

give the moaners their pacers back

 

[northwichcat]

give the moaners their pacers back

Most of the services which have switched were previously operated by 156s not 142s.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Nothing's really changed since the first day of operation judging by comments posted on forums, social media and blogs. Opinion is very mixed - some people think they are polished turds, others think they are an improvement on Sprinters, no-one seems to be blown away by them and I've not seen anyone say they prefer 319s to 323s but a number of people have said they prefer 323s to 319s.

As 20-25 year old no-frills workhorses with 2+3 seating there is not a lot of difference between them.
You get 16 more seats in a 319, and two more sets of doors.
To me the door mechanism on the 323 looks/sounds cheap and nasty and lets them down.
The ambience in a 319 feels a bit more light and airy than 323s, so on balance I prefer them.
2+2 Desiros or 395s with somewhere to put your coffee would be much better than either.
For what it's worth I think you need full end cabs to make a train "attractive".
We should perhaps ask Airport-Piccadilly commuters for their opinions, as the only people who get to try both types of train on the same line.

 

[Clip]

Nothing's really changed since the first day of operation judging by comments posted on forums, social media and blogs. Opinion is very mixed - some people think they are polished turds, others think they are an improvement on Sprinters, no-one seems to be blown away by them and I've not seen anyone say they prefer 319s to 323s but a number of people have said they prefer 323s to 319s.

Ahh so they just cant say they love them then - polished turds or not

 

[northwichcat]

You get 16 more seats in a 319, and two more sets of doors.

More seats isn't always an advantage. FNW actually removed seats from some of the 323s because more luggage space was more important than those seats.

We should perhaps ask Airport-Piccadilly commuters for their opinions, as the only people who get to try both types of train on the same line.

They won't likely use 323s and 319s given 323s run non-stop and 319s run express. You could ask passengers how the 319s compare to the 350/4s though.

 

[AM9]

More seats isn't always an advantage. FNW actually removed seats from some of the 323s because more luggage space was more important than those seats.



They won't likely use 323s and 319s given 323s run non-stop and 319s run express. You could ask passengers how the 319s compare to the 350/4s though.

Having ridden on all of these:
350/1 /2 & /3, over long and short distances
319/1 /2 /3 & /4, many many times over long and short distances including MIA to LIV
323, (admittedly an LN one)
I can say that the 323s, as you would expect feel like many other 2+3 seated metro trains, - their acceleration is slightly better than 319s up to about 50mph, but the comfort is nothing special
The 350s are much newer trains so benefit from much higher power drives and (at the moment) their seats are more comfortable
The 319s do a fair job, coping when very heavily loaded down south. I doubt that they will get that sort of use much in the NW. The 319/3 that I rode on up there had no problem with the airport run, and hit linespeed (90mph) with ease.
The bottom line is that the 319s enabled the NW electrification to go ahead, and I haven't heard anybody pining for the return of Pacers or 150s. One day they will be replaced, but meanwhile they should give a few years good service even on the LIV-MVC slows. Their acceleration beats Pacers, 150s and 156s so even the shortest gaps between stations (e.g. Roby-Huyton) shouldn't prevent the timetable improving overall.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

More seats isn't always an advantage. FNW actually removed seats from some of the 323s because more luggage space was more important than those seats.

I do think that Northern should consider fitting the luggage racks that the 319/4s have.

 

[railhead56]

Another delivery is on the way from Wolverton Centre to Allerton.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O96425/2015/05/14/advanced

 

[158722]

Another delivery is on the way from Wolverton Centre to Allerton.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O96425/2015/05/14/advanced

Logically, should be 319371 and/or 374.

 

[DJH1971]

319361 and 319380 were on LIV-MIA services yesterday.

I was travelling home on 319380 today

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Does anyone know what the schedule is for the ones thameslink are refurbishing and keeping for the interim? I saw an 8 car 319 at Bedford today which was all refurbished in the gleaming white colour scheme new thameslink stickers...the usual 8 car colour scheme mash up of late is a new refurb one with an ex southern or ex fcc colours. Will thameslink end up with all refurbed 319 trains before intro of 700's is complete?

I am guessing it will be those that are due for classified overhaul, not moving to Northern

 

[Paynetrain]

Cheers for that

 

[gab]

Does anyone know which 319 went to Allerton from Wolverton on thurs 14/5.
Cheers

 

[158722]

Does anyone know which 3

19 went to Allerton from Wolverton on thurs 14/5.
Cheers

319371 was reported.

 

[gab]

Thanks

 

[Statto]

Nothing's really changed since the first day of operation judging by comments posted on forums, social media and blogs. Opinion is very mixed - some people think they are polished turds, others think they are an improvement on Sprinters, no-one seems to be blown away by them and I've not seen anyone say they prefer 319s to 323s but a number of people have said they prefer 323s to 319s.

Only problem i have is the 3+2 seating which are like those back to back seats on the 150s, actually some comments are, they're like 150 but with a pantograph, & 100mph top speed instead of 75mph.

They're out of place on LIV-MIA route were 2 carriages can be enough, but on the other hand better suited as they can get to line speed for consistent stretches, rather than speeding up & slowing down, 319s are better suited to LIV-WGN eventually LIV-PRE/BPN routes were the extra carriages are needed.

 

[47802]

Nothing's really changed since the first day of operation judging by comments posted on forums, social media and blogs. Opinion is very mixed - some people think they are polished turds, others think they are an improvement on Sprinters, no-one seems to be blown away by them and I've not seen anyone say they prefer 319s to 323s but a number of people have said they prefer 323s to 319s.

Well of course they are polished turds, but they are better than a Railbus and quieter than a 150 so you can't really knock it.

 

[AM9]

The 319s are a definite improvement over what went before. They are quieter, smoother, have more space and as Statto says they can reach linespeeds for much more of the journey. They aren't 350s or 387s but they are certainly a great improvement. They will probably be replaced in 10-15 years. How long have the NW lines been waiting for electrification so that the hotch-potch of Pacers and Sprinters could be replaced? A bit more than that I imagine.
I am reminded of the Queen song's words, 'I want it all, and I want it now!'

 

[Loop & Link]

As expected - first 319 out on a Sunday in passenger service today on the 0812 Lime St-Airport, 2 more should be out on Airport services too.

 

[Thomas6187]

There appears to be only three diagrams out today. Starting with the 08:12(319361), 09:15 (319363) and 10:15 (319380). The last round trip is at 21:15.

There is also two empty stock moves planned. One to Manchester Victoria at 09:00 using 319364 and one to Preston at 12:05 using 319386

 

[Loop & Link]

Yep there are only 3 diagrams on a Sunday - those you mentioned.

Those ECS moves are to get the units in the right place for in the morning.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yep there are only 3 diagrams on a Sunday - those you mentioned.
Those ECS moves are to get the units in the right place for in the morning.

On Sundays there are in effect no separate Victoria/Wigan/Warrington stoppers, the Airport and Blackpool services fill in at stations that are open.
So not much scope for electric services other than the Airport trains.

 

[northwichcat]

The 319s are a definite improvement over what went before. They are quieter, smoother, have more space and as Statto says they can reach linespeeds for much more of the journey. They aren't 350s or 387s but they are certainly a great improvement. They will probably be replaced in 10-15 years. How long have the NW lines been waiting for electrification so that the hotch-potch of Pacers and Sprinters could be replaced? A bit more than that I imagine.
I am reminded of the Queen song's words, 'I want it all, and I want it now!'

If it's a definite improvement why is the opinion of passengers who actually use the services mixed?

Do you actually know which services are switching to 319s, what used to operate the services and what loadings were like? Your post seems to suggest not.

Manchester/Wigan to Liverpool services won't be able to run at anywhere near 100mph. 2 carriages are sufficient on a number of services while some of the 4 carriage workings were 4 car 156s - approx. same number of seats as a 319 but with the added benefit of 2+2 seating and tables. While for the services which were 2 car 142/150s they are an improvement for passengers travelling on those services but it does mean some services jump the queue for extra capacity.

The DMUs being freed up can of course be used for extra capacity on non-electrified lines but it seems as a result of Chiltern taking the TPE 170s, the released 156s will be running TPE services.

Northern have some round holes to fill and they've been sent some square pegs from London.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If it's a definite improvement why is the opinion of passengers who actually use the services mixed?
Do you actually know which services are switching to 319s, what used to operate the services and what loadings were like? Your post seems to suggest not.
Manchester/Wigan to Liverpool services won't be able to run at anywhere near 100mph. 2 carriages are sufficient on a number of services while some of the 4 carriage workings were 4 car 156s - approx. same number of seats as a 319 but with the added benefit of 2+2 seating and tables. While for the services which were 2 car 142/150s they are an improvement for passengers travelling on those services but it does mean some services jump the queue for extra capacity.
The DMUs being freed up can of course be used for extra capacity on non-electrified lines but it seems as a result of Chiltern taking the TPE 170s, the released 156s will be running TPE services.

Northern have some round holes to fill and they've been sent some square pegs from London.

The people who currently stand on slow, groaning 2-car 142/150/156s, at least in the peaks, would beg to differ.