Northern rolling stock changes post electrification

[61653 HTAFC]

The space relieved (sorry) by one of the old toilets in the refurbed units makes a good utility area .....

(Rather nice job on those trains I think)

Does it? I thought the corridor had to be moved to one side (rather than central) with a dogleg at the vehicle ends to meet the inter-vehicle connection (as seen on the ex-FNW 150s*).

*Yes, I know those units/toilets aren't fully 2020-compliant along with the 319/2s, but presumably they'll be comparatively easier to make so.

 

[Class 170101]

The space relieved (sorry) by one of the old toilets in the refurbed units makes a good utility area .....

Really, I wouldn't want to do my washing on a Class 319 it would be more filthy than when I started :P

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can I enter this discussion of "what if" scenarios to formally ask the forum members if there have been any statements made by any relevant Government department that will signify a relaxation of rail-related matters that are so contained in the wording of the Equality Act 2010.

 

[table38]

How about one large accessible toilet, plus a small urinal for the gents (for when the auto-loo has locked itself out of use)

(I wondered if this would fall foul of gender discrimination legislation, but Manchester City Council do put up temporary urinals on a Friday/Saturday night to stop men peeing in the corridor connections street)

 

[dggar]

I think it's time to stop all this toilet talk, and act like sensible grown ups.

 

[Whistler40145]

Well...are we flushed with success!

 

[table38]

Women won't stand for it if there is no toilet.

 

[edwin_m]

Well...are we flushed with success!

Or even on a roll?

That's the trouble with basin our posts on speculation.

 

[samj]

Have heard that the introduction has been put back to the 16th Feb. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Just wait til the two Moaning toe rag papers the Echo and MEN (both owned by those scumbags The Mirror) state that its a 50% reduction in toilet Capacity its coming mark my words i expect two/three days before launch of the 319s

 

[childwallblues]

The issue of toilets may also be intertwined with the question of whether the units are eventually be shortened to 3 cars.

If this happens the car with the existing toilet(s) will be removed, so any money spent on this car now would be wasted and another accessible toilet would have to be built somewhere else (assuming the 3-car units have toilets at all). But this is the easiest/cheapest place to put an accessible toilet because some of the equipment for the existing toilet will be re-used.

If it was known that the units were going to be reduced to 3-car then it might be better to build an accessible toilet in one of the other cars, which would cost more now but save money later. But only the future franchisee can decide whether they will be shortened!

So, as so often, the lack of a long-term plan on shortening 319s or not is potentially leading to waste of money now.

Why do you keep on about the units being reduced to three car units?

 

[edwin_m]

Why do you keep on about the units being reduced to three car units?

I've only mentioned it once! Recently at least.

Because it's mentioned as a possibility by Porterbook and has been discussed extensively on other threads, or possibly even further back on this one. There is a concern that some platforms may not be extendable to take eight-car peak workings but could be OK for six-car.

 

[northwichcat]

There is a concern that some platforms may not be extendable to take eight-car peak workings but could be OK for six-car.

Network Rail have actually said for Bolton corridor services post-electrification if operators need to run more than 4 car it'll be a choice of 6 car EMU formations or using DMUs under the wires at peak times. They have recently changed the Salford Crescent infrastructure to allow train formations of 143m in length (the length of a 6 car 185) to stop there and can't easily change it to allow 160m formations. They are happy to lengthen platforms at stations such as Blackrod if required.

 

[WatcherZero]

Can kinda get round it by making Salford Central the main interchange post chord and having some longer trains not stop at Crescent. Can then return to the Crescent issue later.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Network Rail have actually said for Bolton corridor services post-electrification if operators need to run more than 4 car it'll be a choice of 6 car EMU formations or using DMUs under the wires at peak times. They have recently changed the Salford Crescent infrastructure to allow train formations of 143m in length (the length of a 6 car 185) to stop there and can't easily change it to allow 160m formations. They are happy to lengthen platforms at stations such as Blackrod if required.

How expensive would fitting some form of SDO to the 319s be?

Neil

 

[WatcherZero]

Issue there isn't a physical obstacle to platform lengthening but that the junctions on either side of the station restrict the maximum length of a train that can occupy that section of track without fouling a junction. Ive previously suggested you could remove the northern crossover and move it a kilometre or so further north where the lines are close to each other again forming two parallel two track sections and adding in the other two platform faces at Crescent that NR left room for in their station refurb.

 

[northwichcat]

How expensive would fitting some form of SDO to the 319s be?

There isn't any pricing available for the options Porterbrook have come up with so I doubt the cost for an option they've rejected would be publicly available.

 

[Olaf]

I think that you have to look to the geographical area where the Class 319 units were originally intended to run with "a better class of personage" being the intended recipients of rail travel in these units and the "northern provinces" where a communal toilet was seen to be the norm in the back courtyards of the slum areas and where, as such, the bestowing of such extra water closet facilities on railway carriages was seen to be extravagances not fitting for the lower orders. In the land of received pronunciation, such ideas still so exist.

Does this answer your question?

Perhaps what's need is the equivalent of the out-door privy coupled to the end of the train; it could also be used to carry the pigeon loft and whippet kennels. Uncle Mort would be in heaven.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can I enter this discussion of "what if" scenarios to formally ask the forum members if there have been any statements made by any relevant Government department that will signify a relaxation of rail-related matters that are so contained in the wording of the Equality Act 2010.

IIRC there is a clause that allows the Minister to sign-off exceptions - I would expect that this will be used as necessary closer to the deadline. There were also statements from the ROSCOs around the time the act was passing through Parliament about units that would probably need to be exempted on particular aspects.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Perhaps what's need is the equivalent of the out-door privy coupled to the end of the train; it could also be used to carry the pigeon loft and whippet kennels. Uncle Mort would be in heaven.
.

Black or frost the windows, fit a few partitions, a bit of plumbing, remove engine and fuel tank etc, fit retention tank and the 142's can be retained on for another 30 years being hauled by 319's. Instantly you have the perfect solution, passengers running up and down the platform at each station, a very uncomfortable seat and doors that bang in wind.

 

[Olaf]

Black or frost the windows, fit a few partitions, a bit of plumbing, remove engine and fuel tank etc, fit retention tank and the 142's can be retained on for another 30 years being hauled by 319's. Instantly you have the perfect solution, passengers running up and down the platform at each station, a very uncomfortable seat and doors that bang in wind.

Fantastic; I'm drooling at the thought of it.

I was thinking more along teh lines of a specially designed brick-s**t house on a truck, but perhaps they could add a Pork Pie Bar, and Tetleys on tap.

Those were the days when Northerners were the real men.

 

[transmanche]

Perhaps what's need is the equivalent of the out-door privy coupled to the end of the train

Like the Top Gear train's toilet?

 

[DJH1971]

Looks like the 319's will be gathering dust a bit longer following yesterday's statement from NR in the Manchester-Liverpool Electrification thread.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Looks like the 319's will be gathering dust a bit longer following yesterday's statement from NR in the Manchester-Liverpool Electrification thread.

They're dual voltage, put em on the Coastway and retire the 313s

 

[Techniquest]

They're dual voltage, put em on the Coastway and retire the 313s

No chance, they didn't want them down there (seriously, the amount of debate that suggestion generated on Facebook was silly!) but we want them up in the North West so we'll happily keep them now!

I don't know how long we've got to wait for them to NR to finish the job, not kept up to date on that thread somehow. I just hope it's not long as I want to enjoy a 319 on territory far less foreign than the Southern Region!

 

[RobShipway]

Are any of the 319's that have gone to Northern any of the one's that where rebuilt by Connex when it had the South Central franchise for the Connex Express at all?

 

[Class377/5]

Are any of the 319's that have gone to Northern any of the one's that where rebuilt by Connex when it had the South Central franchise for the Connex Express at all?

No, that's the 319/2 fleet. Northern is getting 319/3 only.

 

[Paynetrain]

Hi all, does anyone know what will be left livery wise on the thameslink network?
I have seen the refurbished 319's (shiny white/pink blue doors) but then i have also seen lots of the old FCC branded 319, southern coloured 319, a rainbow coloured 319, Switzerland advertised 319, and a telecoms liveried 319. Will all remaining 319's be in the new shiny white livery? Also will they do the same to the old FCC branded 377/5's

Thanks again in advance

 

[Class377/5]

Hi all, does anyone know what will be left livery wise on the thameslink network?
I have seen the refurbished 319's (shiny white/pink blue doors) but then i have also seen lots of the old FCC branded 319, southern coloured 319, a rainbow coloured 319, Switzerland advertised 319, and a telecoms liveried 319. Will all remaining 319's be in the new shiny white livery? Also will they do the same to the old FCC branded 377/5's

Thanks again in advance

All 319s are going through the works. During these works the units have been put into the white livery. However some will be withdrawn from Thameslink prior to going so over the next few years you'll have a mixture.

19x 377/5 will be transferred over to GN from next year. Possibly in new livery then, however the units are painted purple. The remaining units will likely receive the standard Southern livery.

 

[mpb56125]

319 362 in Northern Train livery (minus branding) working Allerton / Crewe driver trainer this morning. http://mark5812.smugmug.com/Trains-2015/January-2015/i-v4ttbtL/A

Mark
http://mark5812.smugmug.com

 

[transmanche]

The remaining units will likely receive the standard Southern livery.

As an aside, does anyone know if Southern will be keeping the existing livery and branding? Or switching to a green variant of the Great Northern/Thameslink one? (I quite like existing 'retro' logo.)