Northern rolling stock changes post electrification

[bengley]

There are 'fitters' at Victoria who may have traveled to the reversing siding with the unit, the fault may then have been fixed and the unit return to the station, only for the fault to return? Or another fault occur? Perhaps staff for the service were delayed elsewhere?



What speed would the unit normally get to in that distance? Allowing for breaking in time for Earlestown of course. What sort of time difference would that incur?

Also, timing points aren't specifically at the station (though they can be), I doubt 319377 spent four minutes sat at Newton-le-Willows.



2F59, 1F05, 2F63 and 2F65 perhaps?



That was not the instruction given to drivers when I was working down there.

 

[Bovverboy]

Nothing to do with 319s, but I thought contributors might be interested that I saw 350409 doing Oxford Road to Airport shuttles on Sunday 24 April. Not as bizarre as might first appear, these journeys were the remnant of the Airport to Blackpool service, which, had it been operating in full, would have been using TPE stock. Why use diesel when you can use electric?

I think services this Sunday are going to be pretty much a repeat of those of Sunday 24/4, so the same may happen again. The journeys were xx.29 ex-Airport, xx.54 ex-Oxford Road.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

319s also work one of the Manchester Piccadilly-Airport stoppers.

There's actually only one train diagram which does repeated Piccadilly to Airport stoppers, that's the one which is currently 319-operated (Picc xx.14, Airport xx.46). The additional stoppers (Picc xx.46, Airport xx.17), which are 323-operated, continue to/from Crewe. Evenings M/S they reduce to Oxford Road to Wilmslow (hourly), and Sundays they are hourly Picc-Airport, with every other one continuing to/from Alderley Edge.

On Mondays to Fridays the Stockport-based 319 gets changed over at the Airport, it arrives at 1938 (1914 ex-Picc), but instead of going back to Picc at 1946 does a quick turnaround to do 1940 to Liverpool Lime Street, and the 1927 arrival (1816 ex-Liverpool) drops back to do 1946 Picc. That's actually its last service journey of the day, after that it goes ECS to Stockport Carriage Maintenance Depot.

I don't know whether or not the 319 gets changed on a Saturday. On Sundays it's not currently scheduled for service.

Originally Posted by Bovverboy
Nothing to do with 319s, but I thought contributors might be interested that I saw 350409 doing Oxford Road to Airport shuttles on Sunday 24 April. Not as bizarre as might first appear, these journeys were the remnant of the Airport to Blackpool service, which, had it been operating in full, would have been using TPE stock. Why use diesel when you can use electric?

I think services this Sunday are going to be pretty much a repeat of those of Sunday 24/4, so the same may happen again.

350407.

 

[childwallblues]

Nothing to do with 319s, but I thought contributors might be interested that I saw 350409 doing Oxford Road to Airport shuttles on Sunday 24 April. Not as bizarre as might first appear, these journeys were the remnant of the Airport to Blackpool service, which, had it been operating in full, would have been using TPE stock. Why use diesel when you can use electric?

I think services this Sunday are going to be pretty much a repeat of those of Sunday 24/4, so the same may happen again. The journeys were xx.29 ex-Airport, xx.54 ex-Oxford Road.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


There's actually only one train diagram which does repeated Piccadilly to Airport stoppers, that's the one which is currently 319-operated (Picc xx.14, Airport xx.46). The additional stoppers (Picc xx.46, Airport xx.17), which are 323-operated, continue to/from Crewe. Evenings M/S they reduce to Oxford Road to Wilmslow (hourly), and Sundays they are hourly Picc-Airport, with every other one continuing to/from Alderley Edge.

On Mondays to Fridays the Stockport-based 319 gets changed over at the Airport, it arrives at 1938 (1914 ex-Picc), but instead of going back to Picc at 1946 does a quick turnaround to do 1940 to Liverpool Lime Street, and the 1927 arrival (1816 ex-Liverpool) drops back to do 1946 Picc. That's actually its last service journey of the day, after that it goes ECS to Stockport Carriage Maintenance Depot.

I don't know whether or not the 319 gets changed on a Saturday. On Sundays it's not currently scheduled for service.



350407.

319s do not change on Saturdays

 

[Class377/5]

The pantograph restriction only applies to Stone Faiveley pantographs - if all three are Brecknell Willis they can run with all three up

True but we always did it as a matter of course to avoid issues especially when you have different sub types mixing and seconds to make a decision.

 

[D365]

Do Stone Faiveley pantographs still exist in service?

 

[AM9]

Do Stone Faiveley pantographs still exist in service?

Yes plenty of them, on some class 315s, 317s, 319s to name three. They are adequate for use up to 75mph, and possibly some of these units venture onto 100mph tracks so they may see higher speeds in service.

 

[Bovverboy]

A few 319 journeys missed today.
0730 Preston to Liverpool terminated at Wigan NW at 0826 37L (M7)
Then continued to Lime Street ECS.
0832 Lime Street to Wigan NW & 0931 return cancelled (TG)
1016 Lime Street to Manchester Airport & 1140 return cancelled (M7)
1230 Preston to Liverpool South Parkway terminated at Lime Street at 1327 (M7)
1347 Lime Street to Warrington Bank Quay & 1451 return cancelled (TG)
1403 Liverpool South Parkway to Preston cancelled Liverpool South Parkway to Lime Street (O)
1616 Lime Street to Manchester Airport & 1740 return cancelled (M7)
1832 Lime Street to Wigan NW cancelled (TG)
2020 Lime Street to Manchester Oxford Road (via NLW) & 2208 return (via NLW) cancelled (TI)

Cancellation codes
M7 = problem with doors
TG = train crew issue
O = unknown cause
TI = planning error

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

A few 319 journeys missed today.
0730 Preston to Liverpool terminated at Wigan NW at 0826 37L (M7)
Then continued to Lime Street ECS.
0832 Lime Street to Wigan NW & 0931 return cancelled (TG)
1016 Lime Street to Manchester Airport & 1140 return cancelled (M7)
1230 Preston to Liverpool South Parkway terminated at Lime Street at 1327 (M7)
1347 Lime Street to Warrington Bank Quay & 1451 return cancelled (TG)
1403 Liverpool South Parkway to Preston cancelled Liverpool South Parkway to Lime Street (O)
1616 Lime Street to Manchester Airport & 1740 return cancelled (M7)
1832 Lime Street to Wigan NW cancelled (TG)
2020 Lime Street to Manchester Oxford Road (via NLW) & 2208 return (via NLW) cancelled (TI)

Cancellation codes
M7 = problem with doors
TG = train crew issue
O = unknown cause
TI = planning error

Not even running yet and already cancelled...?

 

[Loop & Link]

A few 319 journeys missed today.
0730 Preston to Liverpool terminated at Wigan NW at 0826 37L (M7)
Then continued to Lime Street ECS.
0832 Lime Street to Wigan NW & 0931 return cancelled (TG)
1016 Lime Street to Manchester Airport & 1140 return cancelled (M7)
1230 Preston to Liverpool South Parkway terminated at Lime Street at 1327 (M7)
1347 Lime Street to Warrington Bank Quay & 1451 return cancelled (TG)
1403 Liverpool South Parkway to Preston cancelled Liverpool South Parkway to Lime Street (O)
1616 Lime Street to Manchester Airport & 1740 return cancelled (M7)
1832 Lime Street to Wigan NW cancelled (TG)
2020 Lime Street to Manchester Oxford Road (via NLW) & 2208 return (via NLW) cancelled (TI)

Cancellation codes
M7 = problem with doors
TG = train crew issue
O = unknown cause
TI = planning error

The cancellations yesterday's were down to rostering issues rather than 319 failures, although 377/362 did have problems yesterday.

 

[northwichcat]

The cancellations yesterday's were down to rostering issues rather than 319 failures, although 377/362 did have problems yesterday.

The post you're quoting already stated which services were cancelled due to staffing problems. There's just the 1403 Liverpool South Parkway to Preston with an unknown issue.

 

[Bovverboy]

Originally Posted by Loop & Link
The cancellations yesterday's were down to rostering issues rather than 319 failures, although 377/362 did have problems yesterday.

The post you're quoting already stated which services were cancelled due to staffing problems.

It was definitely a mixture of train faults and staff issues which caused Monday's cancellations. I'm not sure there's an instance of a cancellation being ascribed to completely the wrong reason, but there are one or two 'grey areas'. In particular, I often come across instances of a journey being cancelled because of a 'door problem', or whatever, when in reality it is being cancelled in order to provide the stock for a different journey, and it was the unit which should have operated the latter which had the door problem.

I don't think there's any doubt that the 0730 ex-Preston suffered some technical issue - according to RTT it had spent 15 minutes at Leyland and a further 25 at Euxton Balshaw Lane. Had there been a problem with the crew, the crew off the 0832 Wigan to Lime Street stopper would have been borrowed, the latter train presumably being the one the passengers off the ex-Preston finished up on anyway.

The unit which should have done 0832 Lime Street to Wigan was used for the 0928 Lime Street to Preston, which should have been covered by the ex-Preston. However I don't think a train scheduled to depart at 0832 would have been cancelled for no reason other than to provide stock for one scheduled to depart almost an hour later, there must have been some other issue involved.

The 1016 Lime Street to Manchester Airport was presumably cancelled in order to cover the 1032 Wigan, which the 0832 should have followed with.

It took a while to work out what happened next, but I think that the 1303 ex-South Parkway was terminated at Lime Street in order to cover the 1316 Manchester Airport, and the 1230 ex-Preston terminated at Lime Street in order to be turned around to do the 1328 back to Preston. On RTT the 1303 ex-South Parkway shows as having operated as a through train, but I don't think it did. The cancelled 1347 Warrington Bank Quay provided the stock for the 1428 Preston, and the cancelled 1616 Manchester Airport that of the 1547 Warrington Bank Quay. The unit which should have done 1832 Wigan was used for the 1947 Wigan. Comment as earlier, in two of the above situations later trains could have been cancelled to provide rolling stock, so the implication is that there was a staff shortage too.

Originally Posted by jcollins
There's just the 1403 Liverpool South Parkway to Preston with an unknown issue.

Cancellation of the 1403 was an almost inevitable consequence of the cancellation of the 1339 ex-Lime Street, I don't know why it wasn't similarly given as 'M7'.

Originally Posted by HMS Ark Royal
Not even running yet and already cancelled...?

What's 'not even running yet'?

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

What's 'not even running yet'?

The list of cancellations posted here referred to "today" when it should have been "yesterday" - it tickled me pink to see an elementary mistake

 

[Bovverboy]

Two journeys (NSu) operate with an out of service unit attached at the rear - 0620 Lime Street to Victoria and 2209 Victoria to Lime Street. The second unit (as a single unit) covers unbalanced service journeys in the AM/PM peak.

Sorry, my mistake, this was a consequence of misreading RTT. In the mornings it's the 0520 ex-Lime Street which runs with an empty unit on the back.
The above refers to Victoria services only, I believe there is a Wigan to Liverpool journey which runs similarly.

 

[notlob.divad]

Just to point out that there was a Virgin London - Liverpool Service that got into difficulties and terminated at Platform 4 at Edge Hill around the time in question. This may have been a contributory factor in the cancellation of the Parkway <-> Lime Street portion of some workings.

 

[childwallblues]

Just to point out that there was a Virgin London - Liverpool Service that got into difficulties and terminated at Platform 4 at Edge Hill around the time in question. This may have been a contributory factor in the cancellation of the Parkway <-> Lime Street portion of some workings.

There is a crossover from the down fast to the up fast before the platform but it depend on whether the Pendolino was fouling it.
Would have been interesting to see how the passengers dispersed to the outside world.

 

[Bovverboy]

Just to point out that there was a Virgin London - Liverpool Service that got into difficulties and terminated at Platform 4 at Edge Hill around the time in question. This may have been a contributory factor in the cancellation of the Parkway <-> Lime Street portion of some workings.

Originally Posted by childwallblues
There is a crossover from the down fast to the up fast before the platform but it depend on whether the Pendolino was fouling it.

I've checked this one out and am afraid that I can't find any evidence of any other services being delayed by the Virgin termination. More to the point, the only NT service to/from Parkway to have been cancelled was the 1339 Lime Street to Parkway and 1403 return. This was very much at the relevant time, but the 319 (presumably) which arrived at Lime Street ex-Preston at 1327 was on its way back to Preston at 1335, so the decision to terminate the ex-Preston at Lime Street must have been taken long before 1327, which was precisely the time that the Virgin expired. Also, the 1303 ex-Parkway (due Lime Street 1316) was on its way to Manchester Airport at 1318, so the fact that a unit would be needed for the 1328 Lime Street to Preston would have been known long before 1316. So all the evidence indicates that the swapping of NT units between duties was planned well before the Virgin came to a standstill.

Do you know what happened to the Virgin Pendolino? I can't find any subsequent trace of it on RTT.

Interesting that the Virgin ex-London was reported to have been terminated because of a brake fault, but the scheduled return journey ex-Lime Street cancelled because of a door fault. The 1339 Lime Street to Parkway was also apparently cancelled because of a 'door fault', despite the unit which should have worked it leaving Lime Street for Preston only eight minutes after its arrival, and four minutes before it should have set off for Parkway! I get the feeling that this 'door fault' business is the current 'dish of the day', to be pulled out to cover most eventualities.

Originally Posted by childwallblues
Would have been interesting to see how the passengers dispersed to the outside world.

Possibly via the 1303 ex-Wigan (1345 at Edge Hill) or 1244 ex-Oxford Road (1347). Both appear to have stood for a minute or more in the platform.
There might not have been too many passengers on the Virgin at 1327 on a bank holiday.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

which was precisely the time that the Virgin expired.

I am sorry to say I just spat my tea all over the monitor when I read that

Can hardly stop laughing

 

[notlob.divad]

I've checked this one out and am afraid that I can't find any evidence of any other services being delayed by the Virgin termination.

Fair enough, it was just a thought. It is usually the first bit of any service in and out of Lime Street to get cancelled during any disruption.

Do you know what happened to the Virgin Pendolino? I can't find any subsequent trace of it on RTT.

I don't, but given there is nice route back into the EdgeHill Depot from platform 4. I can make a good guess where it ended up.

Interesting that the Virgin ex-London was reported to have been terminated because of a brake fault, but the scheduled return journey ex-Lime Street cancelled because of a door fault. The 1339 Lime Street to Parkway was also apparently cancelled because of a 'door fault', despite the unit which should have worked it leaving Lime Street for Preston only eight minutes after its arrival, and four minutes before it should have set off for Parkway! I get the feeling that this 'door fault' business is the current 'dish of the day', to be pulled out to cover most eventualities.

This was what drew my attention. It seems very strange. I think there was a Parkway<->Lime Street cancelled due to an 'unknown reason' as well.

 

[Bovverboy]

I don't, but given there is nice route back into the EdgeHill Depot from platform 4. I can make a good guess where it ended up.

I thought it might have got a mention on Realtime Trains even if it was Edge Hill Depot it went off to. I think we can be pretty sure, however, that the lack of mention on RTT means it didn't go anywhere other than Edge Hill.

This was what drew my attention. It seems very strange. I think there was a Parkway<->Lime Street cancelled due to an 'unknown reason' as well.

The only Parkway to Lime Street journey cancelled was the 1403 ex-Parkway, this would have been the return working of the 1339 ex-Lime Street, itself cancelled because of 'door problems'. Perhaps by 1403 the 'door problems' idea was wearing a bit thin.

To go back now to the original situation of what was happening in and out of Lime Street last Monday, I see that the unit which was terminated at Wigan NW and then taken ECS to Lime Street did not re-enter service, assuming everything on RTT to be correct. It was deposited on platform 8 at 0909 and presumably carted off to Allerton at 1915 on the rear of 5T30. It was not replaced, the unit shortfall being accommodated by the cancellation of services, although the evidence, not to mention a report to the forum, indicates that there were staffing issues too.

You would have thought that something could have been rustled up, on a bank holiday, if only a diesel. I say 'on a bank holiday' since, while we know that services operate much the same as on a 'normal' day, passenger loadings, on local services at least, are well down, leaving plenty of scope, I would have thought, to run DMU services with smaller combinations of units.

NEW COMMENT

Bearing in mind that today (Sunday 5 June) the Lime Street to Blackpool service has been replaced by Lime Street to St Helens Central, and Lime Street to Preston via NLW, have the amended services been 319-operated?

 

[northwichcat]

319375 broke down at Patricroft on 1440 Manchester Airport to Lime St today. 16:16 Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport and 17:40 Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street both cancelled due to them being unable to source a replacement unit.

 

[notlob.divad]

319375 broke down at Patricroft on 1440 Manchester Airport to Lime St today. 16:16 Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport and 17:40 Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street both cancelled due to them being unable to source a replacement unit.

Not the doors this time

 

[Red Devil]

On Sunday lime st to Preston were 319 operated. The St Helens turnbacks were diesel operated

 

[Bovverboy]

Originally Posted by Red Devil
On Sunday lime st to Preston were 319 operated. The St Helens turnbacks were diesel operated

Thanks for the info. Any obvious reason for the St Helens to be diesel?

319375 broke down at Patricroft on 1440 Manchester Airport to Lime St today. 16:16 Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport and 17:40 Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street both cancelled due to them being unable to source a replacement unit.

As might be expected, there were a few further consequences.
1) The following stopper (1502 ex-Victoria) was delayed by 39 minutes between Eccles and Astley and a further 9 minutes between there and Earlestown. It then appears to have gone non-stop to Lime Street, arriving 31L. (The next stopper would be a scheduled 10 minutes behind at Earlestown, although in reality 21).
2) The 1500 Manchester Airport to Glasgow was held at Oxford Road until 1600 (40L by that time).
3) The 1310 Newcastle to Lime Street was terminated at Victoria. This would result in the 1622 Lime Street to Scarborough being formed of a single 185 instead of a double.
4) The 1536 Manchester Airport to Llandudno was not reported anywhere between Piccadilly and Mickle Trafford, so the presumption is that it was diverted via Stockport & Altrincham.
5) The 1639 Lime Street to S/Parkway and 1704 return were cancelled - presumably to use the stock for something else.

Unrelated cancellations on the CLC route were the 1616 Oxford Road to Lime Street (terminated at Irlam) and 2055 Lime Street to Oxford Road (cancelled throughout).

 

[Loop & Link]

Thanks for the info. Any obvious reason for the St Helens to be diesel?

Crossover at St Helens Central isn't electrified believe it or not! So turnback have to utilise DMU's.

It is possible for 319's to terminate at Thatto Heath and run back to Liverpool via the crossover at Pilkington's. And there's been the very odd occasion where a 319 has terminated at St Helens and ran wrong road to Pilkington's and crossed over there.

 

[notlob.divad]

Crossover at St Helens Central isn't electrified believe it or not! So turnback have to utilise DMU's.

Yes I've noticed that a few times. The only reason I can think is because it is directly underneath the road bridge. The bridge has been used to support the cables so there is support dangling straight over the crossover.

I was actually surprised to read it can still be used my DMUs, as the clearance must be pretty tight. Wouldn't be surprised if the crossover goes, when they get around to moving it all to the new signalling centre.

 

[Loop & Link]

Hopefully they do something, as the turnback facility there is very useful!

In the past when there has been disruption between Huyton-St Helens Central-Wigan for example, DMU's have been swapped onto the line to do a Lime St-St Helens Central shuttle, and the 319's run via the Chat Moss/Golborne and onto Wigan.

I wonder if they'll ever use the Ince Moss Curve that way you could have a circular service - Lime St-Huyton-Newton-le-Willows-Golborne Jn-Ince Moss Jn-Bryn-St Helens Central and possibly onto Lime St.

 

[notlob.divad]

Hopefully they do something, as the turnback facility there is very useful!

Starting to head a little off the topic of the thread. But it they do anything I hope they re-open platform 3 and the Junction line. If done right you could both turnback trains there and use it as an end of line station for a service calling all stops to Manchester Victoria, giving Eccles and Patricroft their link to Victoria back.

Sadly I think the 'northern powerhouse' investment money will run out long before that happens.

I wonder if they'll ever use the Ince Moss Curve that way you could have a circular service - Lime St-Huyton-Newton-le-Willows-Golborne Jn-Ince Moss Jn-Bryn-St Helens Central and possibly onto Lime St.

I find that highly unlikely. Nothing is gaining by doing a big loop with no stations on it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Looks like there was another 319 failure this morning. The 0516 Liverpool to Manchester Airport lost 11 minutes between Piccadilly and the airport. It then was cancelled for the return journey due to a fault with the traction equipment. Subsequent services between Liverpool and the airport where also cancelled.

Anyone got an idea what the current failure rate is. It feel about 2 a week.

 

[Loop & Link]

Starting to head a little off the topic of the thread. But it they do anything I hope they re-open platform 3 and the Junction line. If done right you could both turnback trains there and use it as an end of line station for a service calling all stops to Manchester Victoria, giving Eccles and Patricroft their link to Victoria back.

Sadly I think the 'northern powerhouse' investment money will run out long before that happens.



I find that highly unlikely. Nothing is gaining by doing a big loop with no stations on it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Looks like there was another 319 failure this morning. The 0516 Liverpool to Manchester Airport lost 11 minutes between Piccadilly and the airport. It then was cancelled for the return journey due to a fault with the traction equipment. Subsequent services between Liverpool and the airport where also cancelled.

Anyone got an idea what the current failure rate is. It feel about 2 a week.

369 - power issues.

Depends there was a week a few weeks ago, where there wasn't a single failure that I noticed anyway.

Unit failures happen all the time, I'm always curious as to why it's such a big interest on here to be honest that a 319 has failed! Not having a dig, just saying!

It was replaced off Allerton anyway.

Sometimes a unit with fail and doesn't even get noticed - eg: inward unit into Lime St has a fault gets to sent to Allerton, units are stepped up until a replacement comes off, and then it's back to normal not necessarily any cancellations.

 

[Bovverboy]

Starting to head a little off the topic of the thread. But it they do anything I hope they re-open platform 3 and the Junction line. If done right you could both turnback trains there and use it as an end of line station for a service calling all stops to Manchester Victoria, giving Eccles and Patricroft their link to Victoria back.

You've lost me completely there, Divad. To coin a famous railway phrase, could you 'please explain'..

Looks like there was another 319 failure this morning. The 0516 Liverpool to Manchester Airport lost 11 minutes between Piccadilly and the airport. It then was cancelled for the return journey due to a fault with the traction equipment. Subsequent services between Liverpool and the airport where also cancelled.

That's right, the 0640 Airport to Lime Street, 0816 Lime Street to Airport, and 0940 Airport to Lime Street were cancelled, the reason given being MD (= Traction Equipment). The next working of that particular set should have been 1120 Lime Street to Victoria stopper, but this journey was covered by a unit (319?) which inexplicably appeared in platform 1.

The 0916 Lime Street to Airport and 1040 return were also cancelled, the reason given being YI (Late Arrival of Inbound Service). In fact, after operation of the previous journey (0735 ex-Airport), the set which should have done the 0916 was taken away to Allerton, so there was presumably something wrong with it. After the 1040 ex-Airport the next working should have been 1216 Airport, and this journey was also covered by a unit which appeared in platform 1. So it would appear that two units (319s, probably) were brought out from Allerton, but the event is not recorded on RTT.

The 1320 Lime Street to Victoria and 1402 Victoria to Lime Street were cancelled - but note, those two journeys are not covered by the same duty. Reasons for cancellation were given as TG (Train Crew - 1320) and YI (Late Arrival of Inbound Service 1402). The 1220 ex-Lime Street certainly didn't arrive at Victoria late, so 'YI' may have been simply a code of convenience. The unit which should have done 1402 ex-Victoria dropped back to do the 1502, so all the Vic stoppers were mobile again.

Several problems affected TPE services, not least a points failure at Marsden. Services to/from Liverpool were affected as follows.
1350 Scarborough to Lime Street - no reports between Oxford Road and Edge Hill, it appears to have been diverted via Chat Moss, possibly to save time - it was 26 minutes late at Oxford Road, with a scheduled turnaround at Lime Street of only 11 minutes.
The 1550 Scarborough to Lime Street was terminated at Piccadilly at 1912, 67L, departing for York at 2012, the 1922 ex-Lime Street being cancelled as far as Piccadilly.
The 1650 had no reports between Huddersfield and Edge Hill, so appears to have been diverted via the Calder Valley line. Other TPE services to/from Piccadilly and/or Manchester Airport were also being diverted that way.

The 1903 Wigan NW to Lime Street was cancelled, explanation YI (Late Arrival of Inbound Service). The journey is diesel-operated, using the set which does 1814 Victoria to Wigan NW - this latter journey was cancelled for reason M8 (problem with train).

Anyone got an idea what the current failure rate is. It feel about 2 a week.

I'll check back, but it feel to me more like two a day!

369 - power issues.

Was 369 the one which failed at the Airport, or the one which was taken away from Lime Street?

Depends there was a week a few weeks ago, where there wasn't a single failure that I noticed anyway.

Cue your next remark!

Unit failures happen all the time, I'm always curious as to why it's such a big interest on here to be honest that a 319 has failed! Not having a dig, just saying!

I think there are two relevant considerations.
1. There do seem to be a frightening number of failures, given that there are just fifteen 319s scheduled for service M/F, fourteen on a Saturday (I think), and just three on a normal Sunday. That's making a point of ignoring the one employed on Picc-Airport, since we don't seem to keep tabs on that one.
2. Because the 319s are mainly used on busy sections of route, failures can be catastrophic.

It was replaced off Allerton anyway.

Not immediately.

Sometimes a unit with fail and doesn't even get noticed - eg: inward unit into Lime St has a fault gets to sent to Allerton, units are stepped up until a replacement comes off, and then it's back to normal not necessarily any cancellations.

I agree that it can be done. On the normal middle-of-the-day service there isn't a time when there shouldn't be a 319 standing at Lime Street. For 26 minutes in every hour there should be one, for 33 minutes two, and for one minute three (xx.27-xx.28). More often I think an Airport or South Parkway gets pulled, though.

 

[Loop & Link]

The 0916 Lime Street to Airport and 1040 return were also cancelled, the reason given being YI (Late Arrival of Inbound Service). In fact, after operation of the previous journey (0735 ex-Airport), the set which should have done the 0916 was taken away to Allerton, so there was presumably something wrong with it. After the 1040 ex-Airport the next working should have been 1216 Airport, and this journey was also covered by a unit which appeared in platform 1. So it would appear that two units (319s, probably) were brought out from Allerton, but the event is not recorded on RTT.

Right - let's try and answer some of these! 0735 ex-Airport had 369 attached at the rear, subsequently on arrival at Lime St it was blocking it the good unit for 0916 Airport hence the cancellation.

The 1320 Lime Street to Victoria and 1402 Victoria to Lime Street were cancelled - but note, those two journeys are not covered by the same duty. Reasons for cancellation were given as TG (Train Crew - 1320) and YI (Late Arrival of Inbound Service 1402). The 1220 ex-Lime Street certainly didn't arrive at Victoria late, so 'YI' may have been simply a code of convenience. The unit which should have done 1402 ex-Victoria dropped back to do the 1502, so all the Vic stoppers were mobile again.

1402 Vic-Lime St cancelled because the driver for it was stuck at Huddersfield due to their unit failing on the 1057 Man Vic-Huddersfield, on return they are booked a PNB at Vic.

Was 369 the one which failed at the Airport, or the one which was taken away from Lime Street?

Correct on both!

Cue your next remark!

I meant unit failures in general not specifically 319's!