Northern issue DO NOT TRAVEL message (23/08)

[trainophile]

I’m on a delayed 0815 Scarborough to York which has turned into the 10:02 Scarborough to Sheffield but terminating at Hull, which suits me fine.

Just checked my onward connections Hull-Leeds-ManVic-Wigan Wallgate for after midday and they are all showing running as normal.

Is it safe to rely on NRE to know that this is probably correct?

And… we’ve hit a tree, just outside Bridlington. Can’t be a very big one as there wasn’t a big bump. They are just inspecting the front of the train for damage.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Overuse of the OMGZ DO NOT TRAVEL nonsense by some, especially Northern needs to be reigned in - that is reserved for the most serious disruptions, plague, volcano and asteroid strike. For one to three hour closures such as fallen trees on the rails (not OLE), the maximum should be EXPECT DELAYS or SERVICE TEMPORARILY SUSPENDED - nothing more. In two of the areas mentioned, upon checking, trains have ran right through just 2-3 hours after the DO NOT TRAVEL was issued.

Although I personally agree, ORR is effectively driving this over zealous approach, as they are taking an extreme interest in management of stranded trains. They're well intentioned and they have good reason to want to see improvement in that area.

Some of the requirements that are now considered best practice for stranded trains, especially where there are multiple incidents, just aren't practical, no matter how well intentioned they are, yet ORR still expect compliance.

Only thing you can then really do as a TOC is take a risk adverse approach that means no train will be stranded in the first place.

 

[Donny Dave]

Overuse of the OMGZ DO NOT TRAVEL nonsense by some,

I don't think they have been over the top with the do not travel warning. It was obvious from the forecast there would be major disruption, particularly in the North. The only unknowns are which lines would be affected, and how long they would be disrupted, something highlighted by @trainophile posting that his train has now hit a tree.

 

[43066]

Overuse of the OMGZ DO NOT TRAVEL nonsense by some, especially Northern needs to be reigned in - that is reserved for the most serious disruptions, plague, volcano and asteroid strike. For one to three hour closures such as fallen trees on the rails (not OLE), the maximum should be EXPECT DELAYS or SERVICE TEMPORARILY SUSPENDED - nothing more. In two of the areas mentioned, upon checking, trains have ran right through just 2-3 hours after the DO NOT TRAVEL was issued.

AIUI it’s reserved for periods of serious disruption likely to lead to mass cancellations or strandings - hence it can be used for a variety of events such as crew shortages or weather events. If the service is temporarily suspended it’s entirely sensible to warn people not to attempt to travel!

Only thing you can then really do as a TOC is take a risk adverse approach that means no train will be stranded in the first place.

By far the best approach. It’s entirely possible that the historical approach was too relaxed and is no longer appropriate for the ageing infrastructure the railway operates on.

 

[anothertyke]

just to say that conditions in W Yorks were very severe between 0700 and 0900 this morning, probably worse in Lancashire. In places like Halifax the advice Do Not Travel was probably sound.

 

[Deepgreen]

I am afraid this is par for the course these days. Much as I value trees, we have got to the situation where rail is less reliable than road in bad weather, which is an obvious nonsense. I don't know if it will be addressed by a vast programme of felling (and regular follow-ups), but I suspect it would be claimed to be unaffordable. Then there are the tall trees that are on private land, where felling is not straightforward. As things stand, the railway's resilience and reliability continues to dwindle. People will not stop travelling; they will just go by road, which is a hugely more dangerous mode, even in good weather.

 

[TheSmiths82]

What they really mean is "we can't be bothered with any passengers today, please go away, and if you do turn up don't dare complain if your train is late"

 

[trainophile]

The Wigan services have had quite a bit of disruption this morning, I'd certainly keep an eye on RTT as well as a Dawin system (e.g. NRE, journeycheck etc..)

RTT is currently not showing the actual situation, afraid I find this quite often.

 

[SquireBev]

just to say that conditions in W Yorks were very severe between 0700 and 0900 this morning, probably worse in Lancashire. In places like Halifax the advice Do Not Travel was probably sound.

Large swathes of West Yorkshire seem to be suffering power cuts, presumably thanks to the same storm, and that can't be helping matters.

 

[trainophile]

RTT is currently not showing the actual situation, afraid I find this quite often.

Edit: Updated now.

 

[ainsworth74]

What they really mean is "we can't be bothered with any passengers today, please go away, and if you do turn up don't dare complain if your train is late"

Quite so! All those controllers in York and Manchester, the train crew on their trains and in their mess rooms, the platform staff no doubt joining, and the Network Rail response teams just chilling in their vans all chuckling away to themselves over their cups of tea at the stupid passengers. Shocking absolutely shocking.

There's absolutely no-way at all that those controllers are stressed and under pressure to recover the service as quickly as possible, that the drivers are wondering if there's a branch with their name on it due to come through the windscreen, the conductors are dealing with frustrated and delayed passengers, the platform staff are dealing with the same issue as the conductors but at stations and the Network Rail guys are tromping all over the network in high winds trying to get errant trees cleared and the railway opened again.

Nah, can't be that, they must just being lazy and fancying a doss day at work...

 

[londonmidland]

Currently on 1S35 and we’ve been crawling into Leeds for miles now, following other trains which are also affected by the disruption. Stopping and starting at several signal sections. We’ve just scraped past a leaning tree at 5mph as well.

 

[wellhouse]

For most people, "Do not travel", means do not travel by RAIL. Instead they will travel by car, coach or bus. This further erodes rail's reputation for reliabilty, let alone waking people to the knowledge that you can travel anywhere on a bus for £2.

Bus not an ideal option either in The Calder Valley this morning according to The Halifax Courier.

Storm Lilian: Fallen trees cause chaos as buses in Halifax, Ripponden and Todmorden are delayed and diverted

Fallen trees are causing disruption on roads across Calderdale this morning as strong winds batter the borough.

www.halifaxcourier.co.uk

"Storm Lilian: Fallen trees cause chaos across Calderdale this morning as buses in Halifax, Ripponden and Todmorden are delayed and diverted"

 

[TheSmiths82]

Quite so! All those controllers in York and Manchester, the train crew on their trains and in their mess rooms, the platform staff no doubt joining, and the Network Rail response teams just chilling in their vans all chuckling away to themselves over their cups of tea at the stupid passengers. Shocking absolutely shocking.

There's absolutely no-way at all that those controllers are stressed and under pressure to recover the service as quickly as possible, that the drivers are wondering if there's a branch with their name on it due to come through the windscreen, the conductors are dealing with frustrated and delayed passengers, the platform staff are dealing with the same issue as the conductors but at stations and the Network Rail guys are tromping all over the network in high winds trying to get errant trees cleared and the railway opened again.

Nah, can't be that, they must just being lazy and fancying a doss day at work...

I didn't mean in that way, but that is how it comes across when you read "don't travel". Just checked at Realtime trains, it seems at least at Manchester Piccadilly most trains are back to normal.

 

[Donny Dave]

I'm looking at Traksy for the Doncaster area, and the delays to some trains are horrendous. To be honest, given the conditions in Yorkshire and further beyond, I'm surprised that there is still a few trains running within 10-15 minutes of schedule!

 

[43066]

Is there a blanket speed restriction in place?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

RTT is currently not showing the actual situation, afraid I find this quite often.

Yep, that's why I keep my eye on both, together, I can know almost everything I need.

 

[londonmidland]

The departure board at Leeds doesn’t make for a pretty viewing.

A picture showing the departure boards at Leeds, with severe delays to services being advertised.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Quite so! All those controllers in York and Manchester, the train crew on their trains and in their mess rooms, the platform staff no doubt joining, and the Network Rail response teams just chilling in their vans all chuckling away to themselves over their cups of tea at the stupid passengers. Shocking absolutely shocking.

There's absolutely no-way at all that those controllers are stressed and under pressure to recover the service as quickly as possible, that the drivers are wondering if there's a branch with their name on it due to come through the windscreen, the conductors are dealing with frustrated and delayed passengers, the platform staff are dealing with the same issue as the conductors but at stations and the Network Rail guys are tromping all over the network in high winds trying to get errant trees cleared and the railway opened again.

Nah, can't be that, they must just being lazy and fancying a doss day at work...

Personally I blame the LNER drivers, other Daily Mail hate figures are available

Looking at departures, or rather non departures, at Whitehaven makes me think Do Not Travel is the right advice.

 

[Howardh]

On the other hand if everyone's journey is delayed - they have a heck of a lot of delay repay to pay - but telling folks not to travel means they miss out on fares anyway!

Also, if you have an advance ticket and they say "do not travel" I expect you would have a choice of a full refund or allow travel tomorrow on the same ticket?

 

[Northerngirl]

You happy to be stuck on a 150 for >2hrs not getting anywhere?

No, but I'd rather them say that there's going to be a delay this morning on lines x & y, rather that threatening anyone who dares travel with them. That being said, do not travel with northern is just good advice generally

 

[InkyScrolls]

Leeds - Ilkley services have been running via Shipley.

 

[Howardh]

No, but I'd rather them say that there's going to be a delay this morning on lines x & y, rather that threatening anyone who dares travel with them. That being said, do not travel with northern is just good advice generally

You could say that about most! But, yes, if you are told in advance that there will be delays for certain, you can go prepared (food, water, charged phone etc) and it's not too bad, as long as the toilets are (a) available and (b) working.

Let's face it, if someone's set off from Euston at 7am this morning, and they arrive at Piccadilly to be faced with "Do Not Travel" - ??? They are already here, but I suppose at least there are local buses and trams (albeit with cancellations) available.

 

[skyhigh]

rather that threatening anyone who dares travel with them

What are they threatening passengers with?

 

[Northerngirl]

What are they threatening passengers with?

DO NOT TRAVEL
In my opinion it's very forcefull and strong, I'm sure they could get the point across without sounding angry at passengers

 

[Blackpool boy]

So we have gone from the extreme views of people being stranded is a bad thing adn they should sort themselves out

Toiletless trains blamed for forced door openings

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c80xzny1jr9o Apologies if this thread has already been created

www.railforums.co.uk

to this current thread where telling people not to travel so they dont get stranded is really bad?

 

[Dieseldriver]

I didn't mean in that way, but that is how it comes across when you read "don't travel". Just checked at Realtime trains, it seems at least at Manchester Piccadilly most trains are back to normal.

Most rational, critical thinking people probably aren’t thinking the same as you

 

[thejuggler]

Leeds - Ilkley services have been running via Shipley.

Tree down at Guiseley blocking the line.

 

[al78]

I can see the point about "Do Not Travel" being a bit melodramatic. It ought to be possible to get the message across in a clear logical manner which allows people to rearrange their plans/transport based on the expectation of severe delays in places.

"Due to strong winds across northern England today, large parts of the network are suffering severe delays and cancellations due to fallen trees blocking lines. You are advised to check your journey in advance and be prepared for significant disruption if you wish to travel. Delays of up to two hours are possible locally."

Maybe that is a bit long but it gets the point across, be prepared for a long wait if you are unlucky.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2024 ==

This has been entirely foreseeable! Train-crews have been complaining about the state of the lineside foliage and tree growth for years, and every year it gets worse. Some trees are growing a such an angle that they are only going to fall on to the tracks. It doesn't take much for a tree to fall and block the tracks these days because they have been left to grow so close to the line.
Hitting even a small tree at high speed is a scary experience for a driver.

The problem currently is that this storm has come through in August when deciduous trees are still in full leaf which makes them much more vulnerable to blow-down. How could Network Rail deal with precarious-looking trees that are on private land?

 

[D6975]

DO NOT TRAVEL
In my opinion it's very forcefull and strong, I'm sure they could get the point across without sounding angry at passengers

Those of us with manners would have stuck a 'please' in there somewhere.