Northern issue DO NOT TRAVEL message (23/08)

[Bow Fell]

There is a tendency now, for example to advertise a fatality eg "between WICK and LOOE" rather than usefully give the location, or in some cases, even which line is blocked. The geographical & railway knowledge of at least two operators 'Social Media Executives' has been found to be seriously inadequate on multiple occasions.

Have a good think about the reasoning for that.

 

[mike57]

.and then slowly died down across the relatively flat areas of East Yorkshire.

Died down is very relative... I was on the 07.22 departure south from Bempton yesterday morning heading for Beverley. Just after leaving Driffield emergency brakes, followed by announcement that a tree had fallen on the line. Driver then pulled forward slowly and investigated. The southbound track was just passable, the northbound was completely blocked. I think the driver probably needed a change of trousers looking at it all.

Winds were worst I have seen during the summer. Bridlington which is relatively sheltered had 58mph, at home, we are on the edge of the Woldsi would guess 65-70mph judging by debris and damage. When stopped at Hutton Cranswick you could feel the gusrs rocking the train.

Service was recovering by late morning, but today has been worse with no trains through Bridlington from 8.30 this morning until 2pm this afternoon apparently some residue problems from yesterday.

 

[Horizon22]

Possibly but I doubt it. There would be no reason to.

Southeastern and GTR have live maps which show disruption and colour coded orange (minor / some disruption) and red (severe / major disruption) and black (suspended / no service).

 

[Falcon1200]

There is a tendency now, for example to advertise a fatality eg "between WICK and LOOE" rather than usefully give the location, or in some cases, even which line is blocked. The geographical & railway knowledge of at least two operators 'Social Media Executives' has been found to be seriously inadequate on multiple occasions.

Stating that a fatality is between A and C, rather than at B, has nothing whatsoever to do with geographical and railway knowledge, nor is that information input by 'Social Media Executives'. It is because it has been found, sadly, that if a specific location is given, looky-loos will head to site to see, and nowadays photograph on their phones, whatever they can.

 

[Horizon22]

There is a tendency now, for example to advertise a fatality eg "between WICK and LOOE" rather than usefully give the location, or in some cases, even which line is blocked. The geographical & railway knowledge of at least two operators 'Social Media Executives' has been found to be seriously inadequate on multiple occasions.

This isn’t a new feature. Normally it would be a route - not as ridiculous as what you suggested but something realistic like “Inverness to Wick” or “Paddington to Reading”.

It is Samaritans guidance not to disclose the exact location so as not to encourage copycat behaviour and a frenzy at the specific location. It is normally very clear what line(s) is blocked and what service groups are impacted.

Could you tell me where this has been found to be “seriously inadequate” or has anything to do with “Social Media executives” (a role I’ve not heard of in the rail industry) considering this is good industry practice?

 

[dk1]

Southeastern and GTR have live maps which show disruption and colour coded orange (minor / some disruption) and red (severe / major disruption) and black (suspended / no service).

Fair enough.

 

[td97]

Has any train been stranded for any huge amount of time?

Disruption? What disruption? I travelled on six trains throughout the day yesterday across the Midlands and the Northwest. Admittedly not Northern; I used East Midlands Railway, Transport for Wales and Avanti West Coast. For once, all of the trains actually ran spot on time.

The Blackburn to Bolton line suffered severe disruption.
The first service of the day was stuck in the Bromley Cross signal section for 2hrs 40 due to fallen tree. Arrive 06:38, depart 09:19

Realtime Trains | 2J20 0618 Blackburn to Bromley Cross | 23/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 2J20 0618 departure from Blackburn to Bromley Cross on 23/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 2T20 0919 Bromley Cross to Manchester Victoria | 23/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 2T20 0919 departure from Bromley Cross to Manchester Victoria on 23/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The first southbound train of the day (excluding the one affected by fallen tree above) was almost at lunchtime.

Realtime Trains | 2J20 1117 Blackburn to Rochdale | 23/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 2J20 1117 departure from Blackburn to Rochdale on 23/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[D6130]

Has any train been stranded for any huge amount of time?

1J40, 06 30 Manchester Victoria-Leeds, was delayed by 125 minutes between Milner Royd Jn and Dryclough Jn, before arriving in Halifax at 09 28. It then reversed at Halifax and ran via Elland and Dewsbury to arrive in Leeds two hours late at 09 58. All subsequent Leeds/York-bound trains were then cancelled until:

1J04, 07 57 Manchester Victoria-Leeds, which departed +57 due to late arrival of the incoming train and lost a further 10 minutes between Moston and Milner Royd Jn - before being diverted via Elland and arriving in Leeds +63 at 10 24. Then many more cancellations until:

2I08, 08 17 Leeds to Wigan Wallgate, departed +58 at 09 15, stood at Brighouse from 09 39 till 10 21 (+89) - presumably checking or clearing the line of fallen tree(s) - before accumulating futher minor delays up to +95 at Castleton, arriving at Manchester Victoria at 11 25 (+93) and departing again at 11 37 (+102)....presumably awaiting displaced traincrew.

Nothing then ran from Hebden Bridge until after mid-day.

(Source: Real Time Trains. Sorry I can't link from my phone.)

 

[mike57]

Disruption? What disruption?

The worst winds were in a fairly narrow band maybe 50-60 miles wide to the north of a line from the Mersey to the Humber. People outside this area had a blustery day, the worst affected areas had damaging winds with 60-75mph gusts, strangely with a sunny blue sky in our area, the rain had fallen in the small hours. I would have expected the severity of the weather to have attracted a higher level of warning from the Met Office, at least orange. I know other agencies e.g. railways base their response on the warning level.

The computer models which are used to create forecasts were predicting this event 24-48 hours before. We had 63mph gusts predicted for 9.00am on Friday in the model based forecast Thursday morning, and this was pretty much what we got. Worst affected locations were less clearly identified 48 hours previously, but with an agreement between the various weather models that the north would be affected.

So my view is that Met Office failed to recognise the severity and update other agencies.

 

[signed]

We go through this every single time. The message just does not get across otherwise. It has to be dramatic

If it's too dramatic and too frequently used, people will downplay your message

Same thing happens, in the totally unrelated field of cybersecurity, where security vulnerabilities are given a score (the Common Vulnerability Scoring System). And that system is critiqued because of the fact that a lot of vulnerabilities got 10/10 where some may have gotten a 9.5/9.6, keeping the 10/10 for real deal vulnerability.

I agree the messaging must be a dramatic but you don't want people to downplay it

 

[Dave W]

If it's too dramatic and too frequently used, people will downplay your message

Same thing happens, in the totally unrelated field of cybersecurity, where security vulnerabilities are given a score (the Common Vulnerability Scoring System). And that system is critiqued because of the fact that a lot of vulnerabilities got 10/10 where some may have gotten a 9.5/9.6, keeping the 10/10 for real deal vulnerability.

I agree the messaging must be a dramatic but you don't want people to downplay it

You're right that this is totally unrelated because the audience for the CVSS is largely made up of specialist professionals.

Messaging for public consumption is an entire different beast.