Northern 'Get a Ticket'

[ASharpe]

The only change I've seen on board (which would be influenced by management) is Northern seemed to introduce additional staff on busy trains for fare collection a couple of years ago but they've since disappeared!

I frequently get the Pacer from Thornaby to Billingham (on to Hexham) on a weekday morning and there are always two guards selling tickets (and on one day three).

On a busy morning selling a few weekly seasons as well it can take them both a while to get through.

And on another note, I get the impression a lot of people hand over online only debit cards knowing that they won't be able to pay.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I wnnder if this is simply a roundabout way of downsizing there complaints departmemt? By saying buy a ticket or your going to have bother then anyone who gets the full G4S Treatment (as I have) will be prepared and have a deaf ear turned to them? If so then its unfare, my own situation here being a good example - Blind guy, unstaffed station with a touch screen TVM, Unable to buy from guard pre arival at Man Pic, on way to ticket office with intention to pay and bang!↲ the solution here isnt touch screen cash card and whatever accepting machines, but simple, easy to use, Blind/wheelchair user/old person/foreign tourist friendly permit to travel equipment at
every
unstaffed shack UK Wide!↲

 

[Anvil1984]

I frequently get the Pacer from Thornaby to Billingham (on to Hexham) on a weekday morning and there are always two guards selling tickets (and on one day three).

On a busy morning selling a few weekly seasons as well it can take them both a while to get through.

And on another note, I get the impression a lot of people hand over online only debit cards knowing that they won't be able to pay.

Ah you'll have came across me at some point. There are a few who I believe deliberately hand over online cards (the vast majority of cases its an honest case of believing the card will work), you give them an unpaid fares notice one day with educational words of advice and they try to use it again 2 days later even though the station they board at has a working TVM. The North East area has a lot of RPAs and at times they are worth their salt but the Machester area doesnt have them. Part of the North / East / West Northern divide

 

[noddingdonkey]

I seek out the conductor but only that i always go to back of train so i can catch them easily. Often they don't bother leaving cab for whatever reason and so i have to queue for hours at Leeds to exit.

I think they need to look at themselves and improve ticket buying facilities before they start trying to scare us all. I also think queues at stations would be much better with carnet style tickets.

Absolutely. Maybe a counter #GetATicketOffice campaign is needed? Or mobile/e-ticketing as a minimum.

 

[TUC]

Maybe if some Northern conductors actually bothered to walk down the train rater than remaining in the rear cab for the journey there would be less of a problem. Why should a passenger be expected to 'seek out the conductor' if the conductor hasn't bothered to put in an appearance? Put your own house in order first Northern.

 

[snail]

LEP article on Northern fare collection and the new campaign
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/traffic-travel/calls-for-action-on-rail-fare-dodgers-1-6414526

Classic comment from someone just crying out to be caught at Preston. Ironically, their 'fair' fare is half the return fare!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

As I suggested on another thread.

Anyone without a ticket should approach the guard (at Northern's instruction now), at the door, and prevent him from despatching the train until he has sold you a ticket. If he refuses, you complain that you tried to buy a ticket at the first opportunity and were refused that chance.

A few thousand commuters doing this, on a given peak hour morning, would cause network chaos through delayed trains and may just focus the minds of Northern management into pondering why so many of their passengers are not buying tickets in the first place.

Time for a campaign on twit. Any volunteers?

"You wouldn’t leave the supermarket without paying for your shopping if the queue was long and you were running late. If there is an open ticket office or Ticket Vending Machine available, it is your responsibility to purchase a ticket before you board the train."

No, but I would walk out of the shop, leaving the goods behind, if the service was so psspoor as Northern are at selling tickets. Unfortunately, having travelled on the train and found a massive queue of people tying to buy a ticket at my destination, I do not have the option of turning round and going back home. I have consumed the service and thus have to pay for it. And Northern have no incentive to do this efficiently and seem happy to make people queue up for 20 minutes simply because it saves them money by not having ticket offices, or enough staff at ticket offices, or investing in TVM, or enough ticket sellers on trains or at the destination.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Maybe if some Northern conductors actually bothered to walk down the train rater than remaining in the rear cab for the journey there would be less of a problem. Why should a passenger be expected to 'seek out the conductor' if the conductor hasn't bothered to put in an appearance? Put your own house in order first Northern.

maybe he/she has machine problems. Maybe he/she has other duties (A little thing called safety) but hey ho as you seem to be an expert as to why guards are in the rear cab :roll:


so many people love to complain about fare dodgers and the like. Some of the suggestions here are downright laughable now if someone here is to give Northern a few million for smartcard technology or any other "idea" that comes a long be my guest. But as Northern more than likely only has 2 years left to run (with the extension) no company in their right mind would pay out the sort of sums it would take for some of these "perfect world" ideas

 

[noddingdonkey]

Presumably a guard who is busy dealing with a safety critical matter is unlikely to be impressed by a passenger knocking on the door of the back cab asking for a ticket?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Presumably a guard who is busy dealing with a safety critical matter is unlikely to be impressed by a passenger knocking on the door of the back cab asking for a ticket?

Most of us would just say give us a few minutes and then we would get back to them or if arriving at a station with Barriers just inform the G4s or RPI's that due to (insert reason here) I have been unable to issue tickets (just like we do now)

 

[transmanche]

Most of us would just say give us a few minutes and then we would get back to them or if arriving at a station with Barriers just inform the G4s or RPI's that due to (insert reason here) I have been unable to issue tickets (just like we do now)

It would be nice, in such a situation, if the conductor was able to make an announcement to passengers to that effect; e.g. "passengers who have been unable to buy a ticket on board will be able to purchase them on arrival at X'.

It would help put people like me (and RJ) at ease - the kind of people who always feel uncomfortable at travelling without having purchased a ticket first. (See elsewhere!)

(I appreciate that it's not always possible to make an announcement.)

 

[TUC]

Maybe if some Northern conductors actually bothered to walk down the train rater than remaining in the rear cab for the journey there would be less of a problem. Why should a passenger be expected to 'seek out the conductor' if the conductor hasn't bothered to put in an appearance? Put your own house in order first Northern.

maybe he/she has machine problems. Maybe he/she has other duties (A little thing called safety) but hey ho as you seem to be an expert as to why guards are in the rear cab :roll:

If safety was the main reason why guards remained in the rear cab, all I can say is that Northern must have a lot of safety issues!

As far as a ticket machine not working, it would be reasonable to expect in that situation that an announcement would be made to explain that and to advise passengers requiring tickets what to do.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

If safety was the main reason why guards remained in the rear cab, all I can say is that Northern must have a lot of safety issues!

As far as a ticket machine not working, it would be reasonable to expect in that situation that an announcement would be made to explain that and to advise passengers requiring tickets what to do.

So they may not be speaking to Control? or speaking to Retail? what about recording Non issues? so many things people do NOT see but we have been through this so many times it does not need repeating. yes there are some lazy guards but they are in a significant minority.

 

[talltim]

I appreciate that guards have other stuff to do as well as selling tickets, but Northern management don't seem to, with this campaign.

 

[neilmc]

You are quite at liberty to comment that advice to 'seek out the conductor' is "silly".

However, people looking to this forum for reliable advice which will give them practial assistance and will put their mind at ease, will benefit the most from a balanced and informed analysis.

I appreciate that you try your best to do so but the fact remains that this campaign is confusing and other threads in these forums reveal a multitude of harassment and bullying by Northern, their RPIs and G4S.

Fortunately I do not live anywhere near a suburban station, if I need to catch a train I would first get a bus to Stockport or Manchester so for me these issues are unlikely to arise, but the combination of unavailable/unusable/hidden TVMs, failure of conductors to sell tickets on board and Northern trying to offload the responsibility for this on to the passenger, plus aggressive harrassment at destination stations wouldn't put my mind at ease one bit.

 

[Starmill]

Ah you'll have came across me at some point. There are a few who I believe deliberately hand over online cards (the vast majority of cases its an honest case of believing the card will work), you give them an unpaid fares notice one day with educational words of advice and they try to use it again 2 days later even though the station they board at has a working TVM. The North East area has a lot of RPAs and at times they are worth their salt but the Machester area doesnt have them. Part of the North / East / West Northern divide

Piccadilly and Victoria will occasionally have the actual Northern revenue team in as well as G4S. But yes they are very rarely to be found elsewhere - and I have never ever seen them checking on the train: the most I've ever seen is just one on his or her own selling tickets in the front unit of a double with no corridor connection.

 

[Jeni]

As far as a ticket machine not working, it would be reasonable to expect in that situation that an announcement would be made to explain that and to advise passengers requiring tickets what to do.

Northern? Make an announcement other than an ineligible single word mumble over a tannoy that's barely working? Asking a bit much I think!

 

[Deerfold]

Northern? Make an announcement other than an ineligible single word mumble over a tannoy that's barely working? Asking a bit much I think!

Ineligible for what?

I get good announcements on my line - both the automated and (when there's problems) manual ones.

 

[northwichcat]

I get good announcements on my line - both the automated and (when there's problems) manual ones.

You mustn't get the 142s with defective speakers on your line then.

 

[island]

Piccadilly and Victoria will occasionally have the actual Northern revenue team in as well as G4S. But yes they are very rarely to be found elsewhere - and I have never ever seen them checking on the train: the most I've ever seen is just one on his or her own selling tickets in the front unit of a double with no corridor connection.

One showed up at Wigan North Western (!) the other week, although they were probably based at Wallgate and ambled over for a Liverpool arrival.

 

[Deerfold]

You mustn't get the 142s with defective speakers on your line then.

Not often, no. Mostly 333s and 158s.

 

[TUC]

On the Northern service I was on yesterday, the guard walked down the train quickly, shouting 'anyone want a ticket?' Before disappearing back into the cab without doing any further checking!

 

[Clip]

Lets be honest here, given Northern's territory and the many years of people just either payng on board or maybe not paying at all due to one thing or another,

If this can start getting it into peoples heads that they need to purchase a ticket before they travel,where facilities exist, then it can only be a good thing for Northern and its passengers and the future of whatever franchise it turns into as they will be able to record even more growth over the network and show that the next one needs more investment.

I cant understand why anyone would be against such a promotion..

 

[TUC]

I cant understand why anyone would be against such a promotion..

I think its primarily because:
A) its perceived that too great a proportion (though certainly not all) of Northern's staff are insufficiently visible during journeys and
B) rather than Northern dealing with that as normal setting of requirements about staff behaviours, Northern appear to be expecting passengers to sort it out by going to look for the staff themselves.

 

[noddingdonkey]

where facilities exist

This is the sticking point - there's no issue with buy a ticket before you board if there are facilities. But "it's your responsibility to find the guard or delay your day by queuing at your destination's understaffed ticket office" is a significant departure from previously accepted practice. Such a policy is not unreasonable but having to queue up at the destination should be in exceptional circumstances. The evidence of the queues at Leeds and other closed stations would suggest that there are not sufficient opportunities to buy on the train.

This parody of their posters appeared on Twitter and seems to sum it up quite well

 

[button_boxer]

As an aside, Northern could upgrade their machines which do take cash to take notes larger than £10 which might make them more popular - I've seen several people queue to use them and then be annoyed when they won't take their £20 note.

The upgrade would have to include the ability to give change in notes as well as coins, otherwise half a dozen people buying low value tickets with £20 notes would clean out the coin hoppers in no time.

 

[Sheepy1209]

Northern? Make an announcement other than an ineligible single word mumble over a tannoy that's barely working? Asking a bit much I think!

On a refurbished 156 last week; announcements were just a fuzzy sound, couldn't hear a word.

So I thought I'd mention it to the guard when I got off.

The response (given in the usual friendly Northern guard way, not sarcastic in the slightest):

"What do you expect? This is Northern Rail!"

I commented that the train had at least been tarted up, to which the reply was something like "but that'll be it for the next forty years!".

Northern seems to be a company with people on the ground making the best of a bad thing, and management without a clue.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The 'get a ticket' campaign states that passenger numbers have risen by 42% over the franchise period.

Train services, and therefore Northern's costs, have not increased by anywhere near that amount.

Assuming these passengers are buying tickets (and they must be to have been recorded as extra passengers) where has all this extra revenue gone?

The franchise was let on a no growth / no frills / no investement basis. Someone, somewhere is trousering a large sum of money.

Time to invest it in customer service, including non smelly trains and ticket offices / machines perhaps?

 

[island]

I assume it's gone on G4S goons.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I assume it's gone on G4S goons.

You mean they get paid!

I thought they were all on one of those 'work for your dole' schemes that I read about in the paper (the honours graduate at Poundland and such like).