Northern Customer Information System Improvment - 100 stations?

[Starmill]

So, in the Northern Direct Award it was mentioned that 100 stations would receive CIS improvements, but none were named and it wasn't really detailed. The November Modern Railways shed a little more light - Network Rail and Northern are working on GPS tracking for the entire Northern fleet, allegedly (some undertaking!). The trail on the Esk Valley line Middlesbrough - Whitby must have been a success. But have any stations actually been named? Does anyone local to the Esk Valley know if screens have reached all of the stations? I remember being gobsmacked that Great Ayton, which appeared to be literally in the middle of nowhere, had a screen for it's 4 trains a day in each direction (that said, not quite as impressive as Sugar Loaf ). Can locals on the line confirm the accuracy of the system if it's GPS tracked? I'd expect it to be bang on if so.

Any information much appreciated.

 

[WatcherZero]

Not seen a specific list, heard it will include locally a couple of station in GM and the Mid Cheshire line. Yeah they are fitting GPS trackers to the whole fleet so that PID data can be supplied on lines with more primitive signalling.

 

[northwichcat]

A senior member of MCRUA has heard the stations in Cheshire with usage over 50,000 journeys per annum will get them. For the Mid-Cheshire line that would include Knutsford, Northwich, Greenbank and Cuddington.

 

[Emyr]

Is it safe to assume the benefit would also reach users of the minor stations with an increase in the accuracy/reliability of predictions presented through NRE and TOC webapps?

 

[louis97]

GPS reports can be seen on RTT too: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y73163/2014/11/27/advanced

 

[hacman]

The GPS data is directly fed into TOPS and other systems via a feed to Atos.

So any application, screen, etc that gets data from these sources can benefit.

Jon

 

[Starmill]

I wonder if this will have the slightly paradoxical effect that Northern trains between Carnforth and Barrow will track well, and the TPE ones will continue to get lost!

 

[northwichcat]

Appley Bridge, Ashburys, Bredbury, Dinting, Godley, Gorton, Hattersley, Ince, Moston,
Navigation Road, Strines and Woodsmoor will be the Greater Manchester stations to get CIS.

 

[Starmill]

Strines is an interesting choice.... and Ince is bizarre! Is Bryn still without, or did they fit it there recently (they were doing something resurfacing and facing the platform edge iirc)? Seems some worthy ones may have been missed too, Castleton, Smithy Bridge?

 

[scrapy]

Bryn already has CIS. TFGM are already funding CIS at Smithy Bridge and Castleton along with Newton for Hyde, Broadbottom, Eccles, Hale, Gathurst, and possibly another ive missed so the Northern funded ones are in addition.

I think Ince isnt any more bizarre than Strines. Both have similar passenger numbers according to official stats however I suspect the number of people using Strines is a lot lower as a lot of people split tickets there. Ince probably has more passengers than official stats suggest as many buy Wigan to Manchester returns as they are the same price and give greater flexibility. Ince has an hourly service compared with generally two hourly at Strines.

 

[northwichcat]

Bryn already has CIS. TFGM are already funding CIS at Smithy Bridge and Castleton along with Newton for Hyde, Broadbottom, Eccles, Hale, Gathurst, and possibly another ive missed so the Northern funded ones are in addition.

Hale and Flixton are the two Trafford stations included in Transport for Greater
Manchester’s Rail Station Improvement Strategy (RSIS)
http://www.tfgm.com/ltp3/Documents/Trafford-LAIP-Transport-for-Greater-Manchester-Addendum.pdf

Presumably there's a similar document for the other boroughs of Greater Manchester.

According to this document: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...PF0undWbtJGl3bA&bvm=bv.81828268,d.d24&cad=rja it includes a total of 51 Greater Manchester stations with 37 of the stations already having had the CIS fitted.

 

[scrapy]

I have been told the 10 remaining Merseyside stations without cis will get them. They are Garswood, Thatto Heath, Eccleston Park, Edge Hill, Mossley Hill, West Allerton, Hunts Cross (platforms 1+2), Halewood, Hough Green and Meols Cop.

 

[northwichcat]

The previous thread on this is locked due to no posts in recent months.

Knutsford (one of the stations due to get CIS as part of the Direct Award) now has a visual display on both platforms. It's one of the smaller 2 line displays (I think similar to Hebden Bridge), opposed to the same 3 line type which is at Altrincham and has recently been fitted at Hale (as part of a TfGM funded scheme.)

Navigation Road, Northwich, Greenbank and Cuddington which are also due to CIS as part of the Direct Award have not yet have any displays fitted.

I'm not sure how work is progressing on other lines.

 

[Gathursty]

Pemberton and Gathurst now have them (Not switched on just yet though).

 

[scrapy]

Pemberton and Gathurst now have them (Not switched on just yet though).

Pemberton and Gathurst are TFGM funded and not part of the 100. Kirkham and Wesham now has screens switched on.

Apparently work started on the 100 stations earlier this month and should be completed in November.

 

[Starmill]

I have noticed screens going in at very unlikely places, like Walsden, Featherstone, Cottingley and Mills Hill. But mostly these are in PTE areas and I don't know which are actually funded through the direct award. Did I recently spy some at Padgate? I can't remember; most of the stations on that line have now been getting them but again I think they are TfGM projects.

I have this feeling a few have gone in on the Buxton line? I might have also seen some at one of the stations between Bramhall (had them for years) and Macclesfield, but can't be sure.

I find it absolutely infuriating that Alderly Edge, which really needs them because trains have varying stopping patterns and run via different routes, lacks live departure screens, but somewhere like Sugar Loaf has had one for over a year now, just by virtue of being in Wales!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Does this commitment include announcements also?

 

[Gathursty]

I can imagine someone driving late at night in the near future in The Fens mistaking a house in the distance with the outside light on for the CIS at Shippea Hill! :P

I thought the 100 stations thing included PTE areas. Hopefully then we can see more CIS at rather interesting halts like Redcar British Steel and Thornton Abbey for example.

 

[northwichcat]

I find it absolutely infuriating that Alderly Edge, which really needs them because trains have varying stopping patterns and run via different routes, lacks live departure screens

I'm under the impression that stations with at least 50,000 passengers per annum which don't already have it or weren't already due to get CIS will get CIS as part of the Direct Award. A number of Greater Manchester stations were already due to get it as part of a TfGM funded scheme and are currently getting CIS fitted as part of another scheme.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Does this commitment include announcements also?

At Knutsford currently there's one display on both platforms (even though the display on the Chester platform is only visible from where the front carriage would stop), no displays at platform/station entrances or in the ticket office and no announcement facility. They may not have finished but given it's turned on and working presumably they have finished.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Sounds like half a job. A shame but there you go

 

[onlinespotting]

Perhaps they'll put them in places like Teesside airport, Denton and Reddish South?! Unlikely but not implausible as grants tend to be spent quite ridiculously at times! (PTE areas also tend to have rules of their own!)

 

[Starmill]

That's a poor show for somewhere the size of Knutsford. Even Castleton's new CIS has announcements, 3-line displays and a summary of all departures on a separate screen. It's not THAT necessary at stations where trains to the same destination always use the dame platform but it is a nice touch especially if you arrive at the station on the opposite platform to the one you will need.

 

[northwichcat]

That's a poor show for somewhere the size of Knutsford. Even Castleton's new CIS has announcements, 3-line displays and a summary of all departures on a separate screen. It's not THAT necessary at stations where trains to the same destination always use the dame platform but it is a nice touch especially if you arrive at the station on the opposite platform to the one you will need.

Especially considering Hale has been fitted with 3 line displays but won't a mandatory calling point for most of the additional services being introduced in December 2017.

I wonder what they'll do at Navigation Road (which is being funded as part of the Direct Award) where all services in both directions use the same platform.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Automated announcements of delays have started happening at Knutsford, but not announcements of scheduled services. There's no obvious speakers which have appeared which suggests there's a built in speaker in the CIS display unit. If that is the case I'd be interested to hear how well an announcement can be heard on the Chester bound platform given where the CIS has been fitted.

 

[QueensCurve]

So, in the Northern Direct Award it was mentioned that 100 stations would receive CIS improvements, but none were named and it wasn't really detailed. The November Modern Railways shed a little more light - Network Rail and Northern are working on GPS tracking for the entire Northern fleet, allegedly (some undertaking!). The trail on the Esk Valley line Middlesbrough - Whitby must have been a success. But have any stations actually been named? Does anyone local to the Esk Valley know if screens have reached all of the stations? I remember being gobsmacked that Great Ayton, which appeared to be literally in the middle of nowhere, had a screen for it's 4 trains a day in each direction (that said, not quite as impressive as Sugar Loaf ). Can locals on the line confirm the accuracy of the system if it's GPS tracked? I'd expect it to be bang on if so.

Any information much appreciated.

There is a new electronic departure board at Maryport which pleasantly surprised me when I saw it a few weeks ago. I enquired of Northern on Twirrer whether it was fed from Darwin or GPS. Darwin I recall was the answer. They may have said both, I don't recall as I am getting old and demented.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The previous thread on this is locked due to no posts in recent months.

Knutsford (one of the stations due to get CIS as part of the Direct Award) now has a visual display on both platforms. It's one of the smaller 2 line displays (I think similar to Hebden Bridge), opposed to the same 3 line type which is at Altrincham and has recently been fitted at Hale (as part of a TfGM funded scheme.)

Navigation Road, Northwich, Greenbank and Cuddington which are also due to CIS as part of the Direct Award have not yet have any displays fitted.

I'm not sure how work is progressing on other lines.

Bitter-sweet memories of living in that part of Cheshire in the 1970s.

Cuddington was one of my regular railheads. Hartford and Acton Bridge the others.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'd guess that the heavy rail platform at Navigation Road will work as if it was a one platform station (as it is one, effectively). This does of course mean it won't show services as far in advance as, say Knutsford, but will in normal circumstances at the very least show the time of at least the next service in whichever direction you require. See the PIS at Baildon, Denby Dale, and Dodworth for example.

 

[northwichcat]

I'd guess that the heavy rail platform at Navigation Road will work as if it was a one platform station (as it is one, effectively). This does of course mean it won't show services as far in advance as, say Knutsford, but will in normal circumstances at the very least show the time of at least the next service in whichever direction you require. See the PIS at Baildon, Denby Dale, and Dodworth for example.

The one at Knutsford has something like the following.

Line 1: 09:42 Manchester Piccadilly Expected 09:44

Line 2 (alternating between):
Calling at Mobbeley, Ashley, Hale,... etc. A Northern Rail service.(scrolling)
Current Time: 09:40
2nd Train: 10:42 Manchester Piccadilly On Time

If you're at Navigation Road at 7am there's 4 trains departing in the next 60 minutes. By the time you allow for 'calling at' to scroll through all the stations of the next train, the second line wouldn't repeat itself very frequently if you presume it will show all departures for the next 60 minutes.

 

[IanXC]

I'm under the impression that stations with at least 50,000 passengers per annum which don't already have it or weren't already due to get CIS will get CIS as part of the Direct Award.

I hope you're right! I've not seen a list but its surely not right that Driffield, with circa 250,000 passengers per year, and a combination of 5 destinations and where the next stop in either direction has a limited service, doesn't have PIS!

 

[northwichcat]

I hope you're right! I've not seen a list but its surely not right that Driffield, with circa 250,000 passengers per year, and a combination of 5 destinations and where the next stop in either direction has a limited service, doesn't have PIS!

Driffield isn't listed as one of the 100 stations. However, that doesn't mean it's not already scheduled to get it as part of another scheme. A few posts up someone mentioned Pemberton and Gathurst getting CIS but that's under a different scheme so they don't appear in the list either.

http://moderngov.merseytravel.uk.ne...to Merseytravel Committee 15 January 2015.pdf (Slide 24. The Merseyside stations are highlighted as it was a presentation to Merseytravel.) Howden is listed so stations in East Yorks weren't ignored when the list was drawn up.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The one at Knutsford has something like the following.

Line 1: 09:42 Manchester Piccadilly Expected 09:44

Line 2 (alternating between):
Calling at Mobbeley, Ashley, Hale,... etc. A Northern Rail service.(scrolling)
Current Time: 09:40
2nd Train: 10:42 Manchester Piccadilly On Time

If you're at Navigation Road at 7am there's 4 trains departing in the next 60 minutes. By the time you allow for 'calling at' to scroll through all the stations of the next train, the second line wouldn't repeat itself very frequently if you presume it will show all departures for the next 60 minutes.

Then clearly the 3-line displays that seem to have become the de-facto standard would be the better option, as I assume there's unlikely to be three successive departures in the same direction:
1st. hh:mm Manchester Piccadilly On Time
(scrolling) Calling at: Stockport, etc, etc...
(alternating between)
2nd. hh:mm Chester On Time
and
3rd. hh:mm Stockport On Time

The 2nd/3rd switching every ten seconds or so, so it shouldn't cause anyone too much trouble!

 

[IanXC]

Driffield isn't listed as one of the 100 stations. However, that doesn't mean it's not already scheduled to get it as part of another scheme. A few posts up someone mentioned Pemberton and Gathurst getting CIS but that's under a different scheme so they don't appear in the list either.

http://moderngov.merseytravel.uk.ne...to Merseytravel Committee 15 January 2015.pdf (Slide 24. The Merseyside stations are highlighted as it was a presentation to Merseytravel.) Howden is listed so stations in East Yorks weren't ignored when the list was drawn up.

Thanks, that's good to know. Amusingly Howden already has PIS installed by Hull Trains, as I understand it its solar/battery powered due to the availability of power at the site, so I think only displays information when there is disruption.