Northern Class 195: Initial Diagrams

[Bletchleyite]

In general the amount of cancellations (whether 195 related or not) have become a joke, and not a good one. I am surprised that Andy Burnham has not been on his soapbox although he would be justified in doing so.

It certainly seems to have got rather bad (again). A bit like the Marston Vale, but with more passengers affected than just @DarloRich, his dog and bicycle and a few schoolkids who are probably quite glad of an excuse to miss the first lesson.

 

[js1000]

In general the amount of cancellations (whether 195 related or not) have become a joke, and not a good one. I am surprised that Andy Burnham has not been on his soapbox although he would be justified in doing so.

Although there some recurring faults that is associated with the 195s, it really doesn't help there is a lack of trained drivers/crew and that they have been introduced at the worst time of the year when many of those qualified staff are potentially using annual leave for summer holidays. Feels like the problems are two-fold to me.

 

[Bovverboy]

Note that the 2249 journey Manchester Airport - Liverpool semi-fast was also cancelled, however this operates via Chat Moss, and is non-195 operated. (It forms from the stock of the 2055 Liverpool - Manchester Airport CLC stopper).

Correction, the 2249 Airport - Liverpool semi-fast is routed CLC, it is only diverted via Chat Moss if there are late-night engineering works going on. That is quite often, though.

 

[Bovverboy]

Diagram 8 (see post #304), which is a Blackpool start, is today being covered by 156488. Diagram 10, which is Newton Heath, is 156475.
Does anyone know what is operating Diagrams 11 & 12? They're the ones which should be the 195/0s.

 

[156420]

195102 on the 2 x 195/0 circuit.

 

[Bovverboy]

195102 on the 2 x 195/0 circuit.

Assuming that 195102 did start on the 2x195/0 circuit (and RTT as good as confirms that it did), it only managed two and a half round trips on that diagram (much of which was run significantly late) before being transferred to Diagram 7 (the latter as designated by mikemcniven in post #1 of this thread). Its day seems to have been:
0337 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (RT throughout!)
0551 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (8L-18L, appears to have skipped stops at Birchwood & Liverpool South Parkway)
0709 Liverpool - Manchester Oxford Road (1L-5L)
0912 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool cancelled, due to a problem with the brakes (instead ran ECS at 0943)
1016 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (22L-30L)
1150 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (15L-28L)
1516 Liverpool - Manchester Airport (rear unit) (RT-11L)
1645 Manchester Airport - Liverpool (front unit) (RT-2L)
1910 Liverpool - Preston Croft Street Sidings ECS

So it should appear on tomorrow's 0518 Preston - Barrow (Diagram 1).

 

[Bovverboy]

Diagram 8 (see post #304), which is a Blackpool start, is today being covered by 156488. Diagram 10, which is Newton Heath, is 156475.
Does anyone know what is operating Diagrams 11 & 12? They're the ones which should be the 195/0s.

A third 156 on Barrow/Windermere today has been 156426 on Diagram 3. 156475 was in due course replaced by 195119, I can only suppose at Preston on the 1605 ex-Windermere, but there are no shunt moves showing on RTT. The other two 156s, as far as I am aware, completed their respective diagrams.
So 195s which are known to have seen public service, but which didn't seem to be in evidence today, have been 195001, 195007, 195114, 195121, and 195124. Don't forget, that even on a 'good' day, two 195/1s would be grounded for scheduled maintenance, but the actual casualty list seems to be noticeably greater.

 

[Bovverboy]

Two 156s on Barrow and/or Windermere today, 156427 on Diagram 3 and 156482 on Diagram 4. 195s I haven't seen have been 195001/7 and 195114/8/9/21/5. One 195/1 is likely to have been on Diagram 1, which I didn't see, since the Diagram missed Preston-Airport-Preston from 1509. The double 195/0 diagram was being covered by 195124, and diagram 7 didn't operate - in the afternoon, I don't know about this morning.
So that's at least two 195/1s out of action (above the two scheduled for maintenance), plus 195001/7. Does anyone know why the 195/0s aren't being used at the moment?

 

[Bovverboy]

Here's a teaser for someone. Where is it possible to see 195s travelling on adjacent tracks, and heading in the same direction? Both must be on a scheduled diagram, and running reasonably to time.
I'm not saying that the above necessarily happens every day, but it can, and does, happen occasionally.

A very close run thing today. At 2140 and three-quarters 195122 passed 195120 (which was standing on the adjacent track, but against a red signal). At 2142 and a half 195120's signal cleared, and away it went.

 

[Bovverboy]

Can anyone say what's working 1150 Airport to Lime Street at the moment? It's coming up on 'Journey Check' as being formed of two coaches.

 

[156420]

It should now be formed of a 195/1.

But it definitely wasn’t a 195/0 on the first leg starting from Liverpool. LP100 had no traction knowledge 195’s.

 

[Bovverboy]

It should now be formed of a 195/1.

But it definitely wasn’t a 195/0 on the first leg starting from Liverpool. LP100 had no traction knowledge 195’s.

Is LP100 a particular Lime Street driver? Tracing things through on RTT suggests that the 0337 LIV - MIA and 0551 return were formed from the unit off last night's 2243 Oxford Road - Liverpool stopper. The 0709 Lime Street to Oxford Road semi-fast is shown as being formed from last night's 2148 MIA - LIV, which should have been 195116. There are no signs of any further changes, so perhaps the report of the 1150 being a two-car formation was a red herring, a consequence, perhaps, of the 0337/0551 possibly having been one.
What proportion of Lime Street drivers don't sign 195s?

 

[156420]

Is LP100 a particular Lime Street driver? Tracing things through on RTT suggests that the 0337 LIV - MIA and 0551 return were formed from the unit off last night's 2243 Oxford Road - Liverpool stopper. The 0709 Lime Street to Oxford Road semi-fast is shown as being formed from last night's 2148 MIA - LIV, which should have been 195116. There are no signs of any further changes, so perhaps the report of the 1150 being a two-car formation was a red herring, a consequence, perhaps, of the 0337/0551 possibly having been one.
What proportion of Lime Street drivers don't sign 195s?

Could be any driver - 100 is just the docket number. Whoever was marked to that job didn’t sign 195’s.

Most should sign 195’s as that took precedence over 323’s there’s still some that don’t sign 323’s.

 

[Bovverboy]

I see that there is an interruption to the 1634 Airport - Barrow, for the fourth day in a row. Tuesday it was cancelled completely, Wednesday it was started from Oxford Road, and yesterday and today it has been cancelled to Preston. Monday it ran okay.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Just out of curiosity, how come 195's are running services to and from Liverpool and Manchester?

I thought they were in the hands of Class 319 EMU's rather than diesels?

 

[jawr256]

A very close run thing today. At 2140 and three-quarters 195122 passed 195120 (which was standing on the adjacent track, but against a red signal). At 2142 and a half 195120's signal cleared, and away it went.

I don't think anyone's posted the answer yet, but from your clue it seems we're looking at 1Y91 Barrow-Manchester Airport on Salford Crescent platform 1 passing 5E33 Preston-Newton Heath on the Up Bolton. I guess for the parallel move to work you are looking for 1Y91 to pull in just as 5E33 is leaving.

 

[_toommm_]

Just out of curiosity, how come 195's are running services to and from Liverpool and Manchester?

I thought they were in the hands of Class 319 EMU's rather than diesels?

The 195s are running via Warrington Central which isnt electrified. The route via Eccles is still the place for 319s and 323s, with 150s and 156s subbing more often than before recently.

 

[Bovverboy]

Just out of curiosity, how come 195's are running services to and from Liverpool and Manchester?

I thought they were in the hands of Class 319 EMU's rather than diesels?

The 195s are for the most part only running on routes which are not fully electrified, i.e. Liverpool - Manchester Airport (unelectrified Liverpool South Parkway - Deansgate), Manchester Airport to Barrow (unelectrified Carnforth - Barrow), and Manchester Airport to Windermere (unelectrified Oxenholme - Windermere). As far as I'm aware the only journeys they are scheduled to do which are completely under wiring are 0918Su Preston to Manchester Airport and 2234NSu Manchester Airport to Blackpool North. 1933Su Manchester Airport to Preston is arguable, since Northern advertise it as a through service to Barrow, although there is actually a change of unit scheduled at Preston.

P.S. I hadn't seen _toommm_'s post when I posted mine.

EDIT: An additional 195-diagrammed journey 'under the wires is 0337NSu Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport. The standard routing for this is via Chat Moss, but it does get diverted via the CLC if the Chat Moss route is closed for engineering works, which is usually four nights in the week, one week in three (on average).

 

[Bovverboy]

I don't think anyone's posted the answer yet, but from your clue it seems we're looking at 1Y91 Barrow-Manchester Airport on Salford Crescent platform 1 passing 5E33 Preston-Newton Heath on the Up Bolton. I guess for the parallel move to work you are looking for 1Y91 to pull in just as 5E33 is leaving.

That's right, you've got it. 1Y91 doesn't actually stop at Salford Crescent so the critical move is for 5E33 to set off just as 1Y91 is passing through.
The routes diverge not far beyond the end of the platforms, of course, but for a few yards you've potentially got two 195s running alongside each other.
P.S. I wondered what 'UB' stood for!

 

[jawr256]

That's right, you've got it. 1Y91 doesn't actually stop at Salford Crescent so the critical move is for 5E33 to set off just as 1Y91 is passing through.
The routes diverge not far beyond the end of the platforms, of course, but for a few yards you've potentially got two 195s running alongside each other.
P.S. I wondered what 'UB' stood for!

As I understand it the track layout wouldn't allow for both to depart at the same time, so I think it's just that small possibility of an overlap within the station.

 

[Bovverboy]

Cancellations on Barrow/Windermere look to have been slightly greater than for last Saturday, here's what I believe to be the full list.
1 x Airport - Barrow - Carnforth
1 x Oxford Road - Preston
1 x Oxenholme - Windermere - Oxenholme
3 x Preston - Airport - Preston
Note that most of today's cancellations were south of Preston (where there are, to a point, alternative services available) and no consecutive journeys were cancelled, i.e. there was at least a two-hour gap between successive cancellations.

 

[Bovverboy]

As I understand it the track layout wouldn't allow for both to depart at the same time, so I think it's just that small possibility of an overlap within the station.

I'll have a look next time I'm there in daylight.

 

[Bovverboy]

I can't find any serious flaws in today's (Sat 31/8) Liverpool to Manchester Airport semi-fast service, but there have been a small number of cancellations on several other routes.

 

[Bovverboy]

Ten 195/1s in use today, still no sign of 195001/7.

 

[Bovverboy]

As I understand it the track layout wouldn't allow for both to depart at the same time, so I think it's just that small possibility of an overlap within the station.

I'll have a look next time I'm there in daylight.

Yes, you're right, of course, P1 and the loop can't both get the go-ahead simultaneously, I thought they could. Still, it's possible to see two 195s on adjacent tracks, heading in the same direction, and that can't be done in very many places. Preston P4/P5, I think it happens there sometimes.

 

[Bovverboy]

Cancellations today on Barrow/Windermere have been worse than yesterday, but nothing like as bad as last Sunday. This list is probably complete, since any units still operating are now well into their last journeys.
2 x Airport - Oxford Road
1 x Oxenholme - Windermere - Oxenholme
1 x Preston - Airport - Preston
1 x Lancaster - Airport - Preston
1 x Lancaster - Airport - Barrow - Airport
1 x Preston - Airport
Cancellations represent approximately 20% of scheduled journeys.

 

[Bovverboy]

As yesterday, the Liverpool - Airport semi-fast service has run fairly well, the only cancellation I can find involving the 1551 ex-Airport, which was cancelled at Oxford Road. Also as yesterday, there were a small number of cancellations on other services. The Airport service is still only one-third 195-operated on Sundays, the other two diagrams remaining double 156 worked.

 

[156420]

They will continue to be (for now) re 156’s. Buxton Crew work some of the Lime St-Airports between Manchester Ox Road-Airport & Return on a Sunday only but they don’t sign 195’s so they have to be 156’s, or any other substitute.

 

[Yorkshireman16]

195/1 working Doncaster-York test runs Sunday 01/09/19

 

[Bovverboy]

I see that 195001+195007 are now back on their diagrammed duties on Lime Street - Airport. Tracing things back on RTT, I would say that they came paired from Newton Heath on Monday morning as 5F90, to then work 1F90 0551 Airport - Lime Street. What was presumably a 195/1 working the 0337 ex-Lime Street looks to have then done 0522 Airport - Barrow, rather than returning to Liverpool.