North TPE electrification

[northwichcat]

How could a Glossop-Manchester Airport service not hafta reverse at some point, even if it goes via Victoria? According to the attached map I can't see a loop between Victoria & Piccadilly that avoids a train-reversal journey!

Ordsall Chord?

 

[Nym]

Ashburys - Ashburys West Junction - Philips Park South Junction - Miles Platting Junction - Manchester Victoria - Deal Street Junction - Ordstall Curve (Not yet built) - Castlefeild Junction - Deansgate - Manchester Oxford Road - Manchester Piccadilly - Slade Lane Junction - Heald Green North Junction - Heald Green West Junction - Manchester Airport...

 

[VideozVideoz]

Oh sorry I get it now! You're utilising the not-yet-built Ordsall curve. I was thinking about the current track layout... not heard anything about that since it was announced a bit ago!

 

[pdq]

If the fasts aren't going to call at Dewsbury does this mean my journey time from DEW to MAN will increase as a result?
What about DEW to Man Vic compared to the current DEW to MAN?

 

[northwichcat]

If the fasts aren't going to call at Dewsbury does this mean my journey time from DEW to MAN will increase as a result?
What about DEW to Man Vic compared to the current DEW to MAN?

You'll still have 2tph to Manchester Piccadilly which will call at Huddersfield, Stalybridge and two other stations, so I imagine the journey time will increase by around 3 minutes.

For Dewsbury to Manchester Vic you'll need to change at Huddersfield or Stalybridge.

 

[Nym]

You'll still have 2tph to Manchester Piccadilly which will call at Huddersfield, Stalybridge and two other stations, so I imagine the journey time will increase by around 3 minutes.

For Dewsbury to Manchester Vic you'll need to change at Huddersfield or Stalybridge.

Depends on where they send the stoppers though... I'm only saying MAN to keep the direct LDS and HUD to MAN links.

 

[northwichcat]

Depends on where they send the stoppers though... I'm only saying MAN to keep the direct LDS and HUD to MAN links.

Network Rail are saying they'll go to Piccadilly so that both Piccadilly and Victoria will have 4tph to Leeds via Huddersfield, with the 2 Airport services calling at both Piccadilly and Victoria.

 

[Whistler40145]

Should there be a rethink on EMU stock for FTPE now that Manchester to Leeds is being proposed for electrification?

Which would be better for the TransPennine franchise, Class 350 with an enhanced interior or Class 379 with an enhanced interior?

 

[ainsworth74]

Should there be a rethink on EMU stock for FTPE now that Manchester to Leeds is being proposed for electrification?

No as the 350s are only a short term sub-lease from LM until more EMUs can be procured for the TPE franchise at a later date.

 

[Nym]

Should there be a rethink on EMU stock for FTPE now that Manchester to Leeds is being proposed for electrification?

Which would be better for the TransPennine franchise, Class 350 with an enhanced interior or Class 379 with an enhanced interior?

Neither!

6 Car 380 units with a mini buffet...

DMS, TPSL, MSL, MSL, TSDL, DMF(MB)

Possibly 4 car units with many doubled up...

But would run MIA - BPN, MIA - Scotland and TPE N. Order of 60some units like that for TPE, and an add on of another 40 to 50 3 car units for Northern. Standard class only.

And to keep derby happy, 50 3 car 172 units, combined with the additional leccys, that be pacers gone

 

[Whistler40145]

380s look fine for the job & yes we need to support Bombardier @ Derby.

 

[Eagle]

380s look fine for the job & yes we need to support Bombardier at Derby.

Assuming they'll build them in Derby, of course.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Deleted.

 

[Eagle]

I strongly doubt Siemens will build trains at Bombardier's Derby factory.

He was referring to 172s.

 

[YorkshireBear]

He was referring to 172s.

Yeah i just looked at the fact that bombarider and 380 werent related in the post you quoted, apologies.

 

[tbtc]

Should there be a rethink on EMU stock for FTPE now that Manchester to Leeds is being proposed for electrification?

We don't even know what is going to be wired (Leeds - York/Hull?), so it'd be daft to order anything until we know the number of units to plan for...

 

[Whistler40145]

Which are better units for long distance versus stopping services?

Also, are there any indications that Neville Hill to Colton Junction will be electrified?

 

[philjo]

Also, are there any indications that Neville Hill to Colton Junction will be electrified?

In RAIL which arrived yesterday it said that NR were planning to electrify through to York. The DfT decided to announce it as electrifying Manchester-Leeds as in their opinion Leeds was better known than York!
It is likely that the Leeds to York section would be done first.

 

[Nym]

If everything started at the same time, it would be finished first, because, no tunnels, easy layouts etc. One just hopes it reaches Hull and Middlesbrough too.

 

[tbtc]

It is likely that the Leeds to York section would be done first

That would make sense, as its not far from Neville Hill to Colton Junction.

The real benefits don't come until you've wired the entire line, of course, but that'd be the best place to start.

 

[Nym]

Would be a nice warm up, while they have posessions for Electrification I'd hope they start work on Leeds East Parkway, electrifying to there first, (with some nice big bays and a massive sign saying P&R with a massive car park) so that it can be open at the same time as electrification being commissioned, then stuff can be extended through Leeds onto there, meaning that the York services no longer need to stop at stations to Miklefeild, speeding up York, and extend some ICEC services through that way.

I do just have the gut feeling that a well done P&R with an insane amount of parking, and the 91+Mk4 sets extended there (meaning LOADS of seats) it could do really, really well, and possibly even serve as a P&R for further way, if Leeds - London services ran in Loops.

 

[Whistler40145]

If Leeds to York is wired first, will the power supply be to a standard so Class 91s can run without any hitches?

 

[Nym]

Yes... or someone is very thick... Chances are that section will just be fed from York and Leeds anyway.

 

[tbtc]

If Leeds to York is wired first, will the power supply be to a standard so Class 91s can run without any hitches?

Are there still late evening East Coast journeys which do (Newcastle) - York - Doncaster - Leeds (to get 91s back to Neville Hill okay)?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

In RAIL which arrived yesterday it said that NR were planning to electrify through to York. The DfT decided to announce it as electrifying Manchester-Leeds as in their opinion Leeds was better known than York!
It is likely that the Leeds to York section would be done first.

Justine Greening is up before the Transport Select Committee today (Wed 14 Dec) at 1705 with the title "Autumn Economic Statement - Transport".
Might find out a bit more about TP electrification then (or not).
On Parliament TV.

She has just used the phrase "Manchester to York" for TP electrification.
Stillk running.

 

[Chris125]

Watching it here

There seems to be a suggestion that the rail projects are more a case of bringing forward potential CP5 projects rather being additional... Justine Greening also seemed to say that the Southern vehicles will be in service by December next year, which seems a little unlikely.

TPE electrification confirmed to York, i think she said the project will be carried out between 2016-2018?

As i suspected, the spec for Northern Hub needs to be looked at again to take into account electrification.

Apparently the HS2AA have done a survey of peak hour WCML services and found them half full.. *yawn*

Chris

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Watching it
Justine Greening also seemed to say that the Southern vehicles will be in service by December next year, which seems a little unlikely.

December 2013 I think.

Not very clever on Northern Hub, I thought.
The committee didn't understand that an electric service moved the goalposts enough for NR to revisit the Hub costs, and Justine and her sidekick weren't able to explain why!

 

[WatcherZero]

Not firing on all cylinders Daft

DfT jumps the gun over Nottingham trams decision
A GOVERNMENT statement which said that the construction of two new Nottingham tram routes is about to start, by confirming a grant worth up to £371 million, was issued 'prematurely' by the Department for Transport today.

It's now been revealed that talks on the settlement are actually still in progress.

Transport minister Norman Baker had been quoted as saying that the DfT would provide funding of up to £371 million towards the total maximum cost of £570 million, to provide one extension to Chilwell and Beeston, and the other to Clifton, both linking with the existing Line One at Nottingham station.

Nottingham City Council, the DfT had claimed, 'can now complete the remaining contractual steps so that construction can begin in January.'

Mr Baker had been further quoted as saying: "I am delighted that we are able to finally approve funding, so that construction of Phase Two of the tram system can begin."

A Nottingham city councillor had also been quoted by the Department, describing the announcement as "fantastic news", because "our ambitious proposals to add two more lines to our tram network will now be realised."

But the announcement has now been quietly withdrawn again, although the DfT has not acknowledged its error by publishing a correction.

A spokesman for Nottingham City Council said: "It was a mistake. We are actually still negotiating, and very much hope to announce soon that the scheme is going ahead."

The error is the latest in a series of railway mistakes made by government departments. The summary of electrification schemes in the documents accompanying the Chancellor's recent autumn spending statement omitted Preston-Blackpool North, which is nonetheless going ahead (according to the DfT), while the description of the TransPennine electrification was also misleading.

It described the route as 'Manchester-Leeds', although it later emerged that the scheme will provide a continuous electrified route between Manchester, Leeds and York, thus making an important connection with the already electrified East Coast Main Line.

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/metro/2011/12/14-green-light-for-new-nottingham.html


Edit: Heres the list of (almost all) more road schemes announced today, they claim their investing £854m but if you do the maths it only adds up to £444.4m
http://nds.coi.gov.uk/clientmicrosi...02&NewsAreaId=2&ReleaseID=422474&SubjectId=36

 

[Whistler40145]

Once Liverpool to Manchester & Manchester to York projects are electrified, will the TransPennine service to Newcastle go over to EMUs with the Hull/Middlesbrough still being Class 185s?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Edit: Heres the list of (almost all) more road schemes announced today, they claim their investing £854m but if you do the maths it only adds up to £444.4m
http://nds.coi.gov.uk/clientmicrosi...02&NewsAreaId=2&ReleaseID=422474&SubjectId=36

Thank you for this link.

I do not see the completion of the A6/A555 (SEMMS) link to Manchester Airport amongst these projects. Was the approval for that scheme incorporated in another document or just overlooked in this document?