North TPE electrification

[Whistler40145]

If the line is blocked between Ashton Moss North Jn & Stalybridge, services calling @ Manchester Victoria could divert via Guide Bridge & Ashburys without diesel substitution. It also makes sense in the future for Glossop services to be extended through to Manchester Airport without reversing @ Piccadilly.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If the line is blocked between Ashton Moss North Jn & Stalybridge, services calling @ Manchester Victoria could divert via Guide Bridge & Ashburys without diesel substitution. It also makes sense in the future for Glossop services to be extended through to Manchester Airport without reversing @ Piccadilly.

You can only put so many services into Manchester Airport railway station, even allowing for the future fourth platform face.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

You can only put so many services into Manchester Airport railway station, even allowing for the future fourth platform face.

But we all know that it is essential for every town in Northern England to have a link to Manchester Airport though

 

[Nym]

Your "realistic" plan involves the assumption that tens of millions of pounds will be spent giving Leigh a half hourly train service.

OK, knock Leigh off the plans and it's still a high level of service...
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What price Leigh Metrolink.....?

Faces the wrong direction unless you run down Regent Road and build a massive viaduct up to the Central station viaduct, so expensive...

 

[Whistler40145]

I realise that Manchester Airport only has three platforms & not every service from Glossop would have to be extended from Manchester Victoria.

IMHO, I would divert the current Deansgate to Crewe service to Manchester Victoria & Glossop if the line to Ashburys is electrified.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

But we all know that it is essential for every town in Northern England to have a link to Manchester Airport though

Under the Manchester to Leeds electrification plans, is it proposed to electrify the Ordsall Chord route via Miles Platting Junction to provide these services a route into Manchester Victoria and onwards to Manchester Airport or would the line from Stalybridge to Guide Bridge be electrified and these services go to the terminal platforms at Manchester Piccadilly?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Under the Manchester to Leeds electrification plans, is it proposed to electrify the Ordsall Chord route via Miles Platting Junction to provide these services a route into Manchester Victoria and onwards to Manchester Airport or would the line from Stalybridge to Guide Bridge be electrified and these services go to the terminal platforms at Manchester Piccadilly?

Which services are we talking about? I was responding to the Glossop ideas.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

IMHO, I would divert the current Deansgate to Crewe service to Manchester Victoria & Glossop if the line to Ashburys is electrified.

Which current Deansgate to Crewe service are you referring to? I was unaware that there was such a service.
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Which services are we talking about? I was responding to the Glossop ideas.

See my posting # 242.

 

[Whistler40145]

Where does the current stopping service from Crewe to Manchester terminate? This is the service I was meaning.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Piccadilly.

 

[northwichcat]

With the exception of one morning service that's Crewe to Manchester Oxford Road, which is operated by 2x142s due to not enough 323s.

Some people may think it's for capacity reasons but a pair of Pacers is actually smaller than a 3 car 323. A 323 is 69m long while a pair of 142s is 62m long and has surplus driving cabs and the result is around 40 less seats on a pair of 142s over a 323 (assuming the 142s aren't the ex-ATN ones with 2+2 seating.)

 

[Nym]

They used to run to Deansgate, but now thats finished and one or two off airport or stockport run to Manchester Oxford Road in the evening.

 

[northwichcat]

They used to run to Deansgate, but now thats finished

You're thinking of the Macclesfield services. They used to run as Deansgate-Macclesfield but when they got extended to Stoke the Deansgate-Piccadilly section was truncated, with the exception of one evening peak service.

 

[Whistler40145]

Sorry for my misinformation, I was thinking of when it used to terminate @ Deansgate, then reverse in Cornbrook Sidings. How long ago did it start terminating @ Piccadilly?

 

[Lampshade]

Sorry for my misinformation, I was thinking of when it used to terminate @ Deansgate, then reverse in Cornbrook Sidings. How long ago did it start terminating @ Piccadilly?

December '08 timetable change.

 

[Whistler40145]

Thanks Lampshade.

All I was trying to say is that the Glossop doesn't have a direct service to Manchester Airport, but should it receive a limited service?

 

[4SRKT]

Limited services to airports are pretty pointless. Either send all or nothing through from a particular line. At least people will know they always have to change and where to do so.

 

[Nym]

And getting from the E Manc Lines to change for MIA is easy...

 

[VideozVideoz]

Electrifying the Manchester to Leeds route won't improve journey times will it? At present when the diesel trains get up to max speed then surely over the length of the journey there won't be more than a couple of minutes difference end-2-end?

 

[tbtc]

Electrifying the Manchester to Leeds route won't improve journey times will it? At present when the diesel trains get up to max speed then surely over the length of the journey there won't be more than a couple of minutes difference end-2-end?

It might speed up the Manchester Victoria - Huddersfield/ Huddersfield - Leeds stoppers (due to the number of stop/starts that they do) which will improve reliability for the longer distance services too.

 

[northwichcat]

It might speed up the Manchester Victoria - Huddersfield/ Huddersfield - Leeds stoppers (due to the number of stop/starts that they do) which will improve reliability for the longer distance services too.

They are planning to replace that service with 2 Manchester-Leeds semi-fast services as well as removing Stalybridge and Dewsbury calls from the existing services. The Huddersfield-Leeds stoppers will remain.

 

[Nym]

I wouldn't extect much mroe than a few minutes journey time improvment meerly from electrification, but longer and faster accelrating units will reduce dwell times thanks to faster boarding, and will proberbly result in better performance.

 

[Statto]

It wouldn't be a bad idea extending 2tph Glossop-Piccadilly to Airport stopping at all stations replacing the DMU stopper, at least then EMUs would be used on the stopper to the Airport, rather than DMUs which can run non stop. It does depend on whether the paths are available though

 

[northwichcat]

It wouldn't be a bad idea extending 2tph Glossop-Piccadilly to Airport stopping at all stations replacing the DMU stopper, at least then EMUs would be used on the stopper to the Airport, rather than DMUs which can run non stop. It does depend on whether the paths are available though

There isn't a DMU stopper except where a Pacer fills in for a lack of 323s or where an express service does extra calls at peak times.

 

[Nym]

It wouldn't be a bad idea extending 2tph Glossop-Piccadilly to Airport stopping at all stations replacing the DMU stopper, at least then EMUs would be used on the stopper to the Airport, rather than DMUs which can run non stop. It does depend on whether the paths are available though

Asside from the whole reason why we're building a cord to get TPE services around Manchester in the first place, it would need to cross all paths to get to the airport line, and going via Victoria from Ashburys to access the airport is a big time penalty and mpst users of the Glossop Line want to be in Piccadilly.

And there are no DMU stoppers any more since the Cleethorpes service got made fast and a Northern 323 covered the stopping path with cleethorpes flighted infront or behind it to get down there.

Btw. the time it would take to get round is about an extra 20mins to get round via the cord and victoria, and thats with very optimistic dwell times etc from Ashburys. 10mins of that being getting through Philips Park Jcns.

Personally I just don't think theres any need to get a service running from Glossop to Airport, and the existing EMU paths can be extended through Piccadilly onwards to Liverpool or Bolton, if we end up with a very major re-think of all the paths through 13/14/15/16 at Piccadilly.

 

[Statto]

There isn't a DMU stopper except where a Pacer fills in for a lack of 323s or where an express service does extra calls at peak times.

Cheers, i haven't looked at the timetable recently, so though the stopper per hour was still the DMU, with the EMU stopper from Crewe.

 

[tbtc]

mpst users of the Glossop Line want to be in Piccadilly

The same could be said of any/every line into Manchester

 

[Nym]

Yes, it can, but asside from the lines through Longsight, the current Glossop route has the biggest time penalty for getting into Piccadilly, and also uses the side of Piccadilly with easy space for additional platforms, and 4 tracked approach. Especially when TPE sods off to Victoria (although the semi fasts may use Piccadilly)

 

[northwichcat]

Cheers, i haven't looked at the timetable recently, so though the stopper per hour was still the DMU, with the EMU stopper from Crewe.

There's a Piccadilly-Airport-Crewe service each hour, as well as a Piccadilly-Airport service. For both of those as many as possible are 323 operated but 142s can and do appear. Prior to Dec 08 a TPE service did the all stops northbound and the Northern Liverpool-Airport service did the all stops southbound but in the Dec 08 timetable change an extra stopper was added in.

 

[VideozVideoz]

How could a Glossop-Manchester Airport service not hafta reverse at some point, even if it goes via Victoria? According to the attached map I can't see a loop between Victoria & Piccadilly that avoids a train-reversal journey!