Good news, glad to see it confirmed. Whilst I'm a left-leaning voter, I have to admit that the Tories seem to do better in terms of infrastructure (arguments about privatisation to one side...).
The logical solution would be to switch which one goes via Leeds. There will probably be a ECML timetable recast before TPE electrification is done.
Agreed. Running a Middlesbrough - York - Leeds - Sheffield - (Birmingham etc) service and an Edinburgh - Newcastle - York - Doncaster - Sheffield (Birmingham etc) service would be much better, it'd give a faster Edinburgh service to Birmingham etc, it'd free up seats on the "via Leeds" service (as the Scottish passengers wouldn't be on it), it gets my vote.
Just holdeth thy horses on 'Hull and Middlesbrough Not Being Wired' We don't know what is being done yet, if it's the Network Rail plan, it does include Hull.
Agreed. We seem to be getting ahead of ourselves here when we don't know what has been promised. I sincerely hope Hull is wired, but people need to bear in mind that the initial Lancashire electrification announcement was only for Chat Moss (the Bolton announcement came after, to get further publicity).
Yes I see BB got just Phase 1 to start with - very sensible!
The Hub spend is not approved yet is it - other than Ordsall Lane
Funny how a couple of weeks ago we were talking about the Northern Hub as being scaled down (reduced to just the Ordsall Curve). Now, the wind changes and the Government are suddenly a lot more ambitious...
I can only immagin it's a matter of common sense that Guide Bridge to Stalybridge and Leeds to York will be electrified as part of the project?
Can't assume anything. I'm not sure that Guide Bridge - Stalybridge would be done (it won't have any passenger service if all TPE North services are going to Victoria).
And there's another problem.
We are assuming "tick" it's approved, followed by money to pay for it.
However, it looks like a conditional approval, dependent on private sector Pension Funds being willing to make the investment - ie it is not government money.
I think this one, like previous PFI projects, will run and run before we can be sure it will happen.
I agree. I'm not sure about the rights/wrongs of using Pension Fund money to prop up Government spending (its a bit like Labour's raids on the National Lottery to spend on things). Pension Funds are there to get the best rate of return for their members, they aren't designed as a "slush fund" for the state. Great if they get a rate of return on it, everyone wins, but if they don't get a good return on their money then questions will be asked...
Add Micklefield-Hull, Temple Hirst-Selby and Doncaster-Gilberdyke. That has the added advantage of freeing up a lot of 180s from Hull Trains. I reckon that this would be far more likely than the old Midland lines, at least until they do the MML (whenever that is).
Four?
the areas in West Yorks that need electrifying are:
Leeds-Knottingley-Doncaster
Leeds-Hull
Selby-Doncaster
Doncaster-Gilberdyke
Leeds-York via Harrogate
Neville Hill-Colton Junction
Leeds-Huddersfield via Halifax
Halifax-Victoria
Mirfield-Leeds via Kirkgate
Horbury Junction-Meadowhall
Moorthorpe-Sheffield
We have plenty busy lines that need electrification (e.g. I've mentioned the Harrogate loop recently), before we start wiring routes with no passenger service (or virtually none) like Knottingley - Doncaster (which only gets a handful of GC services that would still need diesel power anyway).
From 2007-2008 3-car 158s were the norm on Blackpool-York, but I think Northern claimed that Nottingham-Leeds, which started in December 2008, would need the third car as much as the aforementioned would, so now it appears to be a roughly 50:50 split on each service between 2-car and 3-car sets.
The only Northern services in Sheffield longer than two coaches tend to be the three car 144s (which are more like two coach Sprinter than a three coach one). The three car 158s tend to be on the Calder Vale services to Manchester if they aren't on the Calder Vale services to Blackpool.
Have all the reasons why Transport Scotland don't think this is necessary (as discussed a few weeks back) suddenly gone away then?
I'm glad someone else has remembered this!
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Yes, but Blackpool-York went from almost exclusive 3-car operation to about a 50:50 split with 2-car operation. 3-car operation on the Selby-Wakefield Westgate trains amazes me.
AIUI its a twelve hour diagram that involves a couple of return Leeds - Manchester trips plus one "Grand Tour" trip to Wakefield via Huddersfield, which tends to get everything from Pacers to 155s to 158s (some with 153 attached).
Notionally the bigger DMUs (e.g. the three coach 158s or the 155/153 combos) are timed for peak hour services through Leeds, but it does mean Pacers to Manchester at some times whilst Wakefield gets 158s.
