North,South divide

[Northerner]

Originally I am from the north, "near Manchester"
But I moved south when I joined the forces. After 12 years in the RAF I finally go a job on the railway for FGW so I consider myself a northerner but I live in the south.
What I want to know is why is the south so expensive to live? And what extras come with this life lifestyle,
I am in January moving back to the north to work for another toc and a simple comparison is that my rental on a two bed properly is over£300PCM cheaper.
Also rail fares are cheaper.
Is the divide justified?

 

[Clip]

The only extras that come with living down south is that summer lasts a bit longer - 2 days instead of 1 - but thats about it I reckon.


Its expensive because of supply and demand. If there wasnt such a demand for either rail services or housing then it would be cheaper.

 

[anti-pacer]

Originally I am from the north, "near Manchester"
But I moved south when I joined the forces. After 12 years in the RAF I finally go a job on the railway for FGW so I consider myself a northerner but I live in the south.
What I want to know is why is the south so expensive to live? And what extras come with this life lifestyle,
I am in January moving back to the north to work for another toc and a simple comparison is that my rental on a two bed properly is over£300PCM cheaper.
Also rail fares are cheaper.
Is the divide justified?

You get what you pay for! There's a reason Waitrose is more expensive than Lidl for example.

 

[cuccir]

Ultimately, this is all driven by jobs. There are more jobs in the south east, therefore more people want to live there - creating further jobs and more migration from across the UK and the world. This increases house prices, making the option of commuting more attractive, and the distances that people would consider commuting longer. This is turn means that services tend to be improved in frequency terms, driving up costs. Busier roads and higher house prices mean that the amount that people can be charged before they think either "I'll drive" or "I'll live closer to work" is much higher.

 

[MK Tom]

Warmer weather, more access to London's facilities, closer to the Continent and major airports, access to the UK's best resorts along the south coast, more jobs, more infrastructure, being where things happen in terms of London and proximity to it, generally higher standard of living as a result of on average higher income (again a result of London and proximity to it).

That's a cold, rational evaluation btw. Although I reside in the netherworld between the south and the midlands (nobody quite knows where to put MK as we variously come under South East, Anglia and Midlands for different things), I really quite like parts of the north, and I'd pick living in Yorkshire over living in Essex any day of the week.

 

[anti-pacer]

Warmer weather, more access to London's facilities, closer to the Continent and major airports, access to the UK's best resorts along the south coast, more jobs, more infrastructure, being where things happen in terms of London and proximity to it, generally higher standard of living as a result of on average higher income (again a result of London and proximity to it).

That's a cold, rational evaluation btw. Although I reside in the netherworld between the south and the midlands (nobody quite knows where to put MK as we variously come under South East, Anglia and Midlands for different things), I really quite like parts of the north, and I'd pick living in Yorkshire over living in Essex any day of the week.

For government purposes you're in the South East, although I believe your local TV stations are ITV Anglia/BBC East, which is bizarre.

I definitely wouldn't say Midlands or East.

When I lived in Banbury, they had a similar "Are we Midlands, are we Southern" identity crisis. It always makes me laugh when Oxford is classed as Midlands! hock:

 

[telstarbox]

Not sure if there are 'more' jobs in the south, but the highest-paying jobs (ie law, finance, technology and management of major companies) are mostly located in London and its surroundings. This puts pressure on house prices and other costs.

 

[merlodlliw]

Not sure if there are 'more' jobs in the south, but the highest-paying jobs (ie law, finance, technology and management of major companies) are mostly located in London and its surroundings. This puts pressure on house prices and other costs.

In the 60s, a three bed brand new house in the better part of Rhyl cost £2,400 same house in the South East sold for £12.500.Sheffield nearer South than Manchester gets Midlands TV.

 

[Northerner]

Now then referring to jobs , the one that I've secured is more money and northern,
With regards to being closer to London I think transport links have improved greatly in the last decade be that rail or low cost air carriers enabling one to be in the capital in a short time.where I currently live is Dreary Didcot which is now marketed at commuter distance from that London .as a result the housing market has increased In capital to an almost unsustainable amount. The cold reality is that the quality of living,in my opinion has decreased! The "accommodation" that I am renting is a one bedroom flat, at £650pcm without double glazing and about enough room to swing a hamster.

 

[anti-pacer]

Sheffield nearer South than Manchester gets Midlands TV.

Parts of Sheffield may receive ITV Central/BBC East Midlands but very few.

ITV/BBC Yorkshire from the Emley Moor transmitter, in the days of terrestrial TV, went as far south as Heanor, Derbyshire, with many people not being able to get their local East Midlands stations at all.

Also, ITV Yorkshire in the east of its region covers most of Lincolnshire and even parts of North West Norfolk. Parts of North Yorkshire on the other hand can only get ITV Tyne Tees/BBC North East & Cumbria.

TV regions mean very little in defining which region you live in.

 

[merlodlliw]

TV regions mean very little in defining which region you live in.

[/QUOTE]

except perhaps Granada, but then Granada is preferred to Welsh TV in many areas of North Wales.

 

[Oswyntail]

Not sure if there are 'more' jobs in the south, but the highest-paying jobs (ie law, finance, technology and management of major companies) are mostly located in London and its surroundings. This puts pressure on house prices and other costs.

There is still the belief that, despite technology, there is still a benefit to be had from having white-collar staff all working in one place, and that is London. This, of course, is mostly bosh, as most such staff only deal with each other within the organisation. When the Department of Health relocated to Leeds, it was meant to be the way of the future, using technology and improved transport to cut costs. But gradually the "top" jobs were re-relocated back South, Ministers found it impossible to use telephones or trains, and their minions followed suit. It is now very much a backwater. But where jobs have to be carried out outside London, as the OP has found, the outlook can still be good.

 

[theblackwatch]

It' isn't really a north/south divide - it's much more regional. I've just looked up 2-bedroom terraced houses for sale in Portsmouth (a good example of 'down south' I thought) and found a reasonable number priced at around £123,000-£140,000 at http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/houses/2-bedrooms/portsmouth/ . I live 'up north' in North Yorkshire, and my neighbours house (again a 2 bed terraced) is currently on the market for £134,950 - so no difference in price whatsoever. Yes, there are cheaper places to live, but it's certainly not the divide some people imagine.

 

[anti-pacer]

[/QUOTE]except perhaps Granada, but then Granada is preferred to Welsh TV in many areas of North Wales.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, and I've had Granada on my TV screen at a hotel in Llandudno, which in fairness was facing east towards Liverpool.

Granada also can be reached as far south as Telford, and as far north as Ribblehead, not to mention parts of Derbyshire, so it does go out of North West England.

 

[neilmc]

Depends - if by "South" you mean "commutable to London" then everything is dearer, especially train fares seeing as it's virtually a captive market - nobody drives a car into central London whereas they just might for Manchester or Leeds. However, when the East Coast main line was electrified there was a house price surge in the York area as people with City jobs considered the commuting time and cost might be worth it to buy a cheap(ish) house in a nice North Yorks village they could retire to. It's not an exact divide - if you want to live within a National park or next to a Manchester United footballer you may well pay more for the same facilities than in, say, a run-down area of Portsmouth or a nondescript Cornish town with no jobs or tourists.

My son works in the design industry which means he virtually has to live in London since his field is incestuous with people moving around the major firms there - there are very few provincial jobs.

I really shouldn't "out" this on a public forum but here goes ...

The south coast does NOT have the best beaches, they are largely crap and hyped-up. Brighton - do you love sitting on pebbles? Sandbanks in Poole - nothing to write home about and ridiculously overpriced. Thanks to "Get Carter" everyone seems to think that Northumberland beaches are a great colliery spoil tip whereas in fact they're some of the finest beaches I've seen anywhere, good job it's such a long way from London so Northerners can enjoy them in peace.

 

[Clip]

Indeed the beaches on the Northumberland coast are some of the best if not the best in the whole country. Not everywhere in the south has pebbled beaches though. Indeed joss bay on the isle of Thanet is a beautiful little beach.

 

[radamfi]

in the days of terrestrial TV

Terrestrial TV still exists, nowadays in the form of digital terrestrial TV.

 

[anti-pacer]

Indeed the beaches on the Northumberland coast are some of the best if not the best in the whole country. Not everywhere in the south has pebbled beaches though. Indeed joss bay on the isle of Thanet is a beautiful little beach.

By far the best beaches in the UK are those in the Hebrides and far North West of the Scottish mainland. Just a pity they don't often have the weather to go with it.

Cornwall, Pembrokeshire and Northumberland also have excellent beaches.

 

[Golden Gripper]

Ultimately, this is all driven by jobs. There are more jobs in the south east, therefore more people want to live there - creating further jobs and more migration from across the UK and the world. This increases house prices, making the option of commuting more attractive, and the distances that people would consider commuting longer. This is turn means that services tend to be improved in frequency terms, driving up costs. Busier roads and higher house prices mean that the amount that people can be charged before they think either "I'll drive" or "I'll live closer to work" is much higher.

So the question is, why are there so many jobs in the south east? The answer dates back to the '80s when government started to favour financial businesses and end support for manufacturing. As a result the areas that were strong on manufacturing went into decline and the only part of the country where finance was strong obviously started to dominate. This is coupled to another strand of government policy which is to be 'very relaxed about the very rich' as Peter Mandelson put it. As a result the filthy rich want to live in Britain for tax reasons, which mainly means the south east (to be close to their money and their accountants). This pushes up the prices of the best property, which means the next down the ladder have to settle for second best, which pushes up those prices and so on down the ladder all the way to the single room bedsit.

Government policy could change this, by making residence in Britain more expensive for the very rich and investing back into manufacturing. But while we still have a government that is largely made up of millionaires and predominately supported by money from city businesses it is unlikely to happen. Enjoy.

 

[merlodlliw]

[

QUOTE]except perhaps Granada, but then Granada is preferred to Welsh TV in many areas of North Wales.

Indeed, and I've had Granada on my TV screen at a hotel in Llandudno, which in fairness was facing east towards Liverpool.

Granada also can be reached as far south as Telford, and as far north as Ribblehead, not to mention parts of Derbyshire, so it does go out of North West England.

Interestingly Wrexham the largest town in North Wales was dismissed from Welsh terrestrial tv almost 60 years ago, only a few
can pick up the Brymbo fill in transmitter,Wrexham town is blind to Moel Y Parc transmitter, I guess 80% watch Granada, 15% Central in the town on DVB.
On Digitalspy reports say Winter Hill can be picked up in Ireland.

 

[Eagle]

North-south isn't such an accurate way to put it. For instance, compare Plymouth (in the south) to Edinburgh (in the north) and most of the stereotypical differences are the wrong way round.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

The south coast does NOT have the best beaches, they are largely crap and hyped-up. Brighton - do you love sitting on pebbles? Sandbanks in Poole - nothing to write home about and ridiculously overpriced. Thanks to "Get Carter" everyone seems to think that Northumberland beaches are a great colliery spoil tip whereas in fact they're some of the finest beaches I've seen anywhere, good job it's such a long way from London so Northerners can enjoy them in peace.

There was a lovely, sunny bank holiday Monday a few years ago when I walked onto one of Northumberland's finest golden sand beaches.

There was one other person and a dog. I imagined that the south coast beaches (many of which have little or no sand) would have been crammed that afternoon.

Having lived in "the north" for many years now, but happily travel to London or elsewhere for meetings etc., I've also come to know many others who have left London at some point in their past and don't want to go back.
One prefers the cooler weather but misses old friends (though doesn't miss the access to the cultural life, which is just as available here, and some of it is in walking distance).
Most prefer the ease of travel (not spending an hour or two to get to work and agin in the evening).
One prefers being able to make things happen here, in contrast to finding it harder to change things in London.
Several prefer having a bigger home and garden and wouldn't want to shrink back to a London-sized home..

But I couldn't say there is a simple comparison between London and all other cities - the character of Newcastle is not the same as Leeds, Leicester, Bristol, Manchester, Edinburgh or Glasgow - I find them all to be very different. And I still get plenty opportunities to enjoy being in London.

 

[34D]

There is still the belief that, despite technology, there is still a benefit to be had from having white-collar staff all working in one place, and that is London. This, of course, is mostly bosh, as most such staff only deal with each other within the organisation. When the Department of Health relocated to Leeds, it was meant to be the way of the future, using technology and improved transport to cut costs. But gradually the "top" jobs were re-relocated back South, Ministers found it impossible to use telephones or trains, and their minions followed suit. It is now very much a backwater. But where jobs have to be carried out outside London, as the OP has found, the outlook can still be good.

Leeds is a backwater? Get real!!

 

[Butts]

I take it this thread should be entitled North/South of England divide as most people by their posts would give that impression.

Although a few mentions of Scotland have crept in - to be found to the North of Northumberland (that is South to us)

 

[Oswyntail]

Leeds is a backwater? Get real!!

In terms of the Department of Health it is. I am sorry if I did not make that clear.

 

[Eagle]

I take it this thread should be entitled North/South of England divide as most people by their posts would give that impression.

Being from the Westcountry, I'd say a more accurate name would be SE England/rest of England divide.

 

[34D]

Being from the Westcountry, I'd say a more accurate name would be SE England/rest of England divide.

But go to somewhere like the bluebell railway (SE england) and it will take longer to get to London (whether by train or road) than places like Peterborough or Doncaster.

Also, ashford used to be an absolute dump pre HS1. Has it really changed I wonder?

 

[St Rollox]

Being from the Westcountry, I'd say a more accurate name would be SE England/rest of England divide.

Sounds about right.

 

[yorksrob]

Also, ashford used to be an absolute dump pre HS1. Has it really changed I wonder?

Well at least we had proper trains !

The town itself has grown a lot more suburbs and urban sprawl since I grew up there and a lot of buildings have been knocked down. Also, my favourite pubs have now closed.

The problem with that part of Kent is that you have London prices and farm labourers wages. Also you're a bit to far from London to enjoy the City life easily.

Personally, If I lived down there now, I'd miss being able to disappear into the hills at a moments notice !

 

[mister-sparky]

It' isn't really a north/south divide - it's much more regional. I've just looked up 2-bedroom terraced houses for sale in Portsmouth (a good example of 'down south' I thought) and found a reasonable number priced at around £123,000-£140,000 at http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/houses/2-bedrooms/portsmouth/ . I live 'up north' in North Yorkshire, and my neighbours house (again a 2 bed terraced) is currently on the market for £134,950 - so no difference in price whatsoever. Yes, there are cheaper places to live, but it's certainly not the divide some people imagine.

a 2 bedroom house for £140k?! That's cheap! £140k will barely get you a 1 bedroom flat where I live...

Portsmouth is a very cheap part of "down south"