North Downs Line - making request stops

[hkstudent]

When looking at the calling pattern of North Downs Line, it often finding many stations like Gomshall are only having 1 train per 2 hour.

It appears to be too infrequent for a line that is served by 2 trains per hour. Would it be better off to make those infrequent stops be request stops and be better demand matching?

 

[30907]

Looking at the timetable, each stop costs about 2min. Making them request stops would save 1/2min per stop per GB timetabling conventions, so you would barely be able to squeeze one extra stop in, not 2. (I am assuming that Shalford, Deepdale and Reigate would not be request stops.)

I leave it to others with much more recent local knowledge to comment on potential offpeak demand.

 

[simonw]

Looking at the timetable, each stop costs about 2min. Making them request stops would save 1/2min per stop per GB timetabling conventions, so you would barely be able to squeeze one extra stop in, not 2. (I am assuming that Shalford, Deepdale and Reigate would not be request stops.)

I leave it to others with much more recent local knowledge to comment on potential offpeak demand.

I think the op is suggesting allowing a customer to request a train, not currently scheduled to stop, to stop in addition to the 1 stop every two hours, not to make them all request stops.

 

[30907]

I think the op is suggesting allowing a customer to request a train, not currently scheduled to stop, to stop in addition to the 1 stop every two hours, not to make them all request stops.

In which case you need to add 1.5min to each journey to allow for the potential stop, and that's impossible with the constraints on the timetable.

 

[devon_belle]

I would propose instead to increase the frequency of calls to those stations. They have comparable usage to the Dorking-Horsham stations which benefit from a 1tph (albeit 5.5 days per week) electrostar service to/from London Victoria.

I'm not sure why those stations are 1tp2h, but there usually seem to be people getting on/off at the small stations between Dorking Deepdene and Shalford. I can't speak for Betchworth because I rarely get the train in that direction. Dorking West is an interesting one because it is the accessible alternative to Deepdene, although the pedestrian journey between the two is not the shortest or flattest. Additionally, tickets are often sold to 'Dorking Stations' so actual usage figures are hard to decipher.

I guess that when new trains with better acceleration come in every station will get at least 1tph, but I'm not sure if signalling changes would also be needed to achieve that and the coveted third train per hour. Gomshall should be the focus of any increase in service frequency in my view, as it is the busiest of the shacks and has lots of nature/walking appeal like Boxhill and Westhumble.

 

[zwk500]

In which case you need to add 1.5min to each journey to allow for the potential stop, and that's impossible with the constraints on the timetable.

1.5 min is a good approximation, although technically it can be more or slightly less depending on the SRTs.

I think the op is suggesting allowing a customer to request a train, not currently scheduled to stop, to stop in addition to the 1 stop every two hours, not to make them all request stops.

Request stops are timed as a zero-dwell stop (also known as a 'dot stop') with an additional 30 seconds runtime after the request stop to allow for if the train needs to stop. This means that compared to a booked stop, you are only saving the Dwell time minus 30 seconds. If the dwell time at the station would be 30 seconds, then there is no timetable benefit to it being a request stop, only a potential performance benefit (offset by the potential to run early and be held at signals later).

 

[Recessio]

Very anecdotal experience suggests a fair chunk of the traffic at Dorking Deepdene is school traffic. It would be interesting to know if the usage patterns at the other stations is constant or if it spikes throughout the day - would going from 1tp2h to 1tph be justified throughout the day? Or would it be better to have more stopping services in the morning and evening peaks but keep 1tp2h in the off peak.

Regardless I've never been a huge fan of request stops. You effectively have to timetable a stopping service just in case all the stations get stopped at anyway. So either just have a stop scheduled or don't.

 

[devon_belle]

Very anecdotal experience suggests a fair chunk of the traffic at Dorking Deepdene is school traffic.

In mine it is a decent amount of airport traffic and a lot of commuting/leisure between Guildford-Dorking-Redhill. I've rarely found the trains to be overloaded or empty, having travelled at quite a few times of day for various reasons.

Or would it be better to have more stopping services in the morning and evening peaks but keep 1tp2h in the off peak.

I believe they are already 1tph in the peaks. Certainly in the morning.

Regardless I've never been a huge fan of request stops. You effectively have to timetable a stopping service just in case all the stations get stopped at anyway. So either just have a stop scheduled or don't.

Agree.