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Non PRM trains continuing into 2020

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Spartacus

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That’ll be an increase in trains taken out of service due to someone peeing or worse on the seats then, plus overtime at stations with facilities. Late at night, last train, people still go, toilet or not.
 
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brad465

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I just checked. They are also not allowed on the Bromley North line.
Yes I don't know what the safety issue is, but if the 466s are the only units that can operate the line and can't work alone in 1-2 months time it will have to be solved quick, or pursue that 2nd derogation I mentioned earlier.
 

61653 HTAFC

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With regard to Networkers, for the troublesome branches would it be possible to form a sub fleet of 3-car units by moving some intermediate vehicles from 465s to 466s? Then fitting one accessible toilet to each centre car so that the space lost isn't as significant?
That way the Electrostars can stay on the higher speed mainline work rather than pootling along to Bromley North.
 

brad465

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With regard to Networkers, for the troublesome branches would it be possible to form a sub fleet of 3-car units by moving some intermediate vehicles from 465s to 466s? Then fitting one accessible toilet to each centre car so that the space lost isn't as significant?
That way the Electrostars can stay on the higher speed mainline work rather than pootling along to Bromley North.
To be honest if they were gonna to that effort they might as well just finish off the PRM works on 466s as they are and be fully compliant on their own.
 

61653 HTAFC

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To be honest if they were gonna to that effort they might as well just finish off the PRM works on 466s as they are and be fully compliant on their own.
Though as someone mentioned upthread, a 2-car unit with an accessible toilet will be short on space (at least for down South: apparently we Northern monkeys don't count! ;))
 

brad465

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Though as someone mentioned upthread, a 2-car unit with an accessible toilet will be short on space (at least for down South: apparently we Northern monkeys don't count! ;))
True, I think though there is also the issue the Networkers are [sadly], near the end of their life and to reconfigure some of them into 3 car sets for what might only be necessary for a few years isn't really worth it.
 

Terry Tait

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Ridiculous situation full stop, there is already a rolling stock shortage on Southeastern, commuters have still got to go to work, this legislation needs to be seriously re-thought so that prm will be only enforced on replacement rolling stock.
 

MotCO

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Ridiculous situation full stop, there is already a rolling stock shortage on Southeastern, commuters have still got to go to work, this legislation needs to be seriously re-thought so that prm will be only enforced on replacement rolling stock.

Particularly since the journey from Bromley North to Grove Park is only 5 minutes. There wouldn't be enought time to use the loo on the journey!!
 

brad465

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Particularly since the journey from Bromley North to Grove Park is only 5 minutes. There wouldn't be enough time to use the loo on the journey!!
I agree, and if they don't sort out that safety issue causing all other units to be banned from the branch at the present time all passengers might have to settle on a bus, or overload Bromley South even more.
 

ScotGG

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The continual delays to Southeastern's future mean any new stock could be five years away.

Moving 2-car trains to main line work and longer trains to branches means years of capacity reductions. Not great as SE is now one of the fastest growing TOCs serving some areas of major growth.
 

Cardiff123

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Will TFW still have 143s in service in January if so is Cardiff the best place to find one before retirement?
Yes TfW will still have 143s in service in January. And yes, stand on Platforms 6/7/8 at Cardiff Central on any day of the week and it won't be long before you come across a 143 or 142 working up the Valleys or to Barry/Bridgend via the VoG.
From 16th December, TfW's Pacers will be concentrated on the Penarth - Rhymney line running doubled up.
 

Horizon22

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465s are banned from the Bromley North line

Well then apparently there's no fit stock to work the Bromley North branch as not sure 375/6/7 are either...

At least Sheerness has an option as they definitely can take other stock as it runs up there in 465/466 formation during the peak Victoria services.
 

brad465

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Well then apparently there's no fit stock to work the Bromley North branch as not sure 375/6/7 are either...

At least Sheerness has an option as they definitely can take other stock as it runs up there in 465/466 formation during the peak Victoria services.
Yes as said in more recent posts since that surprising revelation Electrostars are banned as well it seems. If they don't solve the safety issues behind that apparently it's either get a bus or try and get more people through Bromley South (which is busy enough).
 

Horizon22

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I agree, and if they don't sort out that safety issue causing all other units to be banned from the branch at the present time all passengers might have to settle on a bus, or overload Bromley South even more.

Even Bromley S would be no good - these people want The City & Canary Wharf, not easy when your train terminates at Victoria.
 

ComUtoR

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Well then apparently there's no fit stock to work the Bromley North branch as not sure 375/6/7 are either...

And the clock is ticking. As mentioned, 375/376 also not permitted to run.
 

Horizon22

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And the clock is ticking. As mentioned, 375/376 also not permitted to run.

What is the "safety issue" you previously mentioned or is that something you cannot share? I know there's no DOO monitors just whacking great mirrors at Bromley North and Sundridge Park (maybe Grove Park too?) not sure if that's an issue for a 4-car.
 

Horizon22

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Of course. Anyway as you say, something is going to need to be done otherwise the great and good of Bromley will be up in arms.
 

brad465

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I didn't think the rolling stock troubles SE have could get much worse, but IF this isn't solved come mid-December (or January if 466s kept it up for two weeks from the timetable change) it will have done.
 

Mitchell Hurd

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One set of rolling stock that I don't think has been mentioned are the GWR Mark 3 sleepers.

Are these not included given that they only operate from late evening to early morning?
 

Darandio

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One set of rolling stock that I don't think has been mentioned are the GWR Mark 3 sleepers.

Are these not included given that they only operate from late evening to early morning?

Accessibility work was done on the Night Riviera.
 

Horizon22

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On this note, the 466s seem to be being replaced at least some of the time by 375 stock on the Medway Valley & Sheerness lines.
 
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brad465

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On this note, the 466s seem to be being replaced at least some of the time by 375 stock on the Medway Valley & Sheerness lines.
Recently there have been power supply issues on the Sheerness branch for 466 solo operations, causing 375s to go there earlier than originally anticipated. This has caused the Medway Valley line to briefly return to all 466 operation, which I suspect will stay in place until the timetable change at the end of next week.

On a different note 466s now have a new derogation to keep them working the Bromley North branch, probably because everything else is banned from it currently and a 5 minute service each way isn't going to cause serious PRM concerns (all this was mentioned in the 466 refurbishment thread).
 

Horizon22

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Recently there have been power supply issues on the Sheerness branch for 466 solo operations, causing 375s to go there earlier than originally anticipated. This has caused the Medway Valley line to briefly return to all 466 operation, which I suspect will stay in place until the timetable change at the end of next week.

On a different note 466s now have a new derogation to keep them working the Bromley North branch, probably because everything else is banned from it currently and a 5 minute service each way isn't going to cause serious PRM concerns (all this was mentioned in the 466 refurbishment thread).

Yep, was aware a derogation was likely for the Bromley shuttle, didn't know it had been arranged yet though.
 

ExRes

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Is anyone aware of the Chiltern situation?, a few Mk3 sets have been hauled down to Bristol over the last few months for PRM work but does anyone know the actual completed v the to be completed score?
 

387star

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I thought 153s would be banned from 2020

Seems TFW are making some compliant by fitting a new toilet amongst other things

A few leave to Scotrail to become storage facilities for bikes and heavy luggage

What about the rest ? It's now fine if they are coupled to a modified unit? Would their toilets have to be locked out of use?

Assuming northerns are going as they are all in old livery. Assuming both west midlands and east midlands operators will stop using them soon

Greater Anglia and GWR no longer use them
 

61653 HTAFC

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I thought 153s would be banned from 2020

Seems TFW are making some compliant by fitting a new toilet amongst other things

A few leave to Scotrail to become storage facilities for bikes and heavy luggage

What about the rest ? It's now fine if they are coupled to a modified unit? Would their toilets have to be locked out of use?

Assuming northerns are going as they are all in old livery. Assuming both west midlands and east midlands operators will stop using them soon

Greater Anglia and GWR no longer use them
Northern will still be using solo 153s without accessible toilets after the new year, on two routes out of Huddersfield (to Castleford and Bradford). This is because the Castleford service has to use P5 at Huddersfield which is only 39m long.
 

387star

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Northern will still be using solo 153s without accessible toilets after the new year, on two routes out of Huddersfield (to Castleford and Bradford). This is because the Castleford service has to use P5 at Huddersfield which is only 39m long.
Will they receive northern livery?
 

61653 HTAFC

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Will they receive northern livery?
Highly unlikely I'd have thought. That said, as the platform length situation is unlikely to change for a good few years, perhaps biting the bullet and putting a small fleet of 6 or so through the PRM process would be worthwhile. If that were to happen I'd expect them to get the current Northern white livery.
 
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