Night Tube Launch Date Announced

[duncanp]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-29336093

'Night Tube' weekend service to launch in September 2015The Tube is to run a 24-hour service at weekends from 12 September 2015, it has been announced.

Passengers will be able to take the so-called "Night Tube" on Fridays and Saturdays.

Transport for London (TfL) said the service would cut journey times by an average of 20 minutes.
The RMT union said the plans had "not been properly thought through and are a disaster waiting to happen".

There will be six trains per hour through central London on the Jubilee, Victoria and most of the Piccadilly, Central and Northern lines, TfL said.

On the Northern Line, there will be eight trains per hour to meet demand at busy stations between Leicester Square and Camden Town, it added.

The service will be launched in time for England staging the Rugby World Cup, which will be hosted in 13 venues around the country, including three in London - Twickenham Stadium, Olympic Stadium and Wembley Stadium....

Whilst it is a welcome development, I wonder what will happen to night bus services that parallel the all night tube routes.

eg. I don't think people in Stoke Newington would like a reduction in the frequency of the N73 at weekends just because people in Tottenham and Walthamstow are able to take the Victoria Line.

 

[AM9]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-29336093

Tfl has announced that the "Night Tube" service will start on September 12th 2015.

Whilst it is a welcome development, I wonder what will happen to night bus services that parallel the all night tube routes.

eg. I don't think people in Stoke Newington would like a reduction in the frequency of the N73 at weekends just because people in Tottenham and Walthamstow are able to take the Victoria Line.

But if the N73s are running empty, should they still maintain the service as is?

 

[duncanp]

Last time I used it, the N73 was quite busy as far as Seven Sisters, so they might terminate it there at weekends I suppose, or reduce the frequency between Seven Sisters and Walthamstow.

I suspect that there will be some adjustments to night bus services, with some routes being curtailed, or perhaps some day routes will gain a 24 hour service, as people may want to get a bus to connect with the night tube.

 

[radamfi]

Given the discrepancy in fares between bus and Tube, there will always be a lot of people who want to use the bus even if there is a parallel Tube line. Bus 25 mirrors rail and Tube lines for almost its entire length, yet it is the busiest bus route.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Given the discrepancy in fares between bus and Tube, there will always be a lot of people who want to use the bus even if there is a parallel Tube line. Bus 25 mirrors rail and Tube lines for almost its entire length, yet it is the busiest bus route.

You think people will pay at night ? In spite of the best efforts to get station staff out and about more (with a resultant increase in staff assaults) it would not surprise anyone to see outlying stations with gatelines open and the single member of staff on duty safely ensconced in the control room.

 

[Mikey C]

If someone lives on a night bus route, they may prefer this to a 15 minute walk from the Tube station at 3am...

 

[Busaholic]

I can't imagine there'll be any review of night bus services until the night tube is well established. For a start, TfL are against having different routeings on different days of the week and the night tube will not be running seven nights of the week. The most likely scenario would be that the very many extra night buses that run on Friday and (particularly) Saturday nights on bus routes that serve 'tube' areas (like n29) would be reduced. Also, you have to factor in that if there were unpleasant incidents garnering lots of publicity where a lack of staff was a contributor there could be an early end to this experiment. The unions for Underground staff are not known for their reticence either and physical assaults on their members could lead to refusal to work the shifts, and I can't see 'management' offering their services at 3 a.m. at Camden Town!

 

[duncanp]

One thing that might happen is that certain day bus routes provide an all night service at weekends, so that people can connect with the tube.

This already happens on New Years Eve

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Wait, why is the RMT objecting this time? Is it just their stock response to anything...

 

[Deerfold]

Wait, why is the RMT objecting this time? Is it just their stock response to anything...

Because the whole night tube plan is tied into the removal of ticket offices and reduction in staffing.

I can't imagine there'll be any review of night bus services until the night tube is well established. For a start, TfL are against having different routeings on different days of the week and the night tube will not be running seven nights of the week. The most likely scenario would be that the very many extra night buses that run on Friday and (particularly) Saturday nights on bus routes that serve 'tube' areas (like n29) would be reduced. Also, you have to factor in that if there were unpleasant incidents garnering lots of publicity where a lack of staff was a contributor there could be an early end to this experiment. The unions for Underground staff are not known for their reticence either and physical assaults on their members could lead to refusal to work the shifts, and I can't see 'management' offering their services at 3 a.m. at Camden Town!

There are unlikely to be any routes that do not run at nights but as you say, there are likely to be frequency reductions at weekends on routes which currently have higher frequencies than during the week.

Any route that has increased frequencies on a Saturday night has them on a Friday night too.

I don't see any routes being less frequent than during the week and there has been talk of extra night routes at weekends which serve tube stations.

 

[Busaholic]

Because the whole night tube plan is tied into the removal of ticket offices and reduction in staffing.



There are unlikely to be any routes that do not run at nights but as you say, there are likely to be frequency reductions at weekends on routes which currently have higher frequencies than during the week.

Any route that has increased frequencies on a Saturday night has them on a Friday night too.

I don't see any routes being less frequent than during the week and there has been talk of extra night routes at weekends which serve tube stations.

A few routes have an increase on Saturday nights as compared to Friday nights e.g. N91 11 buses Fri.,14 buses Sat. (and only 6 Mon-Thu.)- this used to be the most frequent night bus service, basically covering Piccadilly Line to Heathrow, usurped by the N29 which performs the same function for the Piccadilly northward plus Camden.

 

[83G/84D]

So when is the engineering work, train maintenance etc going to be done if the trains are running day and night?

 

[Mojo]

So when is the engineering work, train maintenance etc going to be done if the trains are running day and night?

All-night running will only take place on Fridays and Saturdays (plus presumably New Years Eve).

 

[Deerfold]

A few routes have an increase on Saturday nights as compared to Friday nights e.g. N91 11 buses Fri.,14 buses Sat. (and only 6 Mon-Thu.)- this used to be the most frequent night bus service, basically covering Piccadilly Line to Heathrow, usurped by the N29 which performs the same function for the Piccadilly northward plus Camden.

Not sure where you're looking - the N91 goes to Crouch End and is every 15 minutes Friday night and Saturday night.

The N9 which does go to Heathrow is pretty much the same timetable on a Friday and Saturday night - every 10 minutes to Hounslow with alternate buses going all the way.

 

[Busaholic]

Not sure where you're looking - the N91 goes to Crouch End and is every 15 minutes Friday night and Saturday night.

The N9 which does go to Heathrow is pretty much the same timetable on a Friday and Saturday night - every 10 minutes to Hounslow with alternate buses going all the way.

Mixing up my N91s! The old N91 did go to outer West London whereas the modern N91 is based on the daytime 91 route to Crouch End, as you say. It does need more buses on Sat night as compared to Fri because it performs 25 journeys on Sat and 20 on Fri, and one or two other routes also have a slight increase but agree on general proposition that frequencies are almost identical both nights.

 

[jon0844]

All-night running will only take place on Fridays and Saturdays (plus presumably New Years Eve).

But from what I saw on the BBC this morning, many are now thinking this is a step towards 24/7 running - which seems rather unlikely!

I know there was talk about single line operation years ago, to allow the other line to be maintained, but realistically that is never going to happen. Far too confusing, and needing all new signs that can change etc.

I think weekends are going to be just fine.

 

[Deerfold]

Mixing up my N91s! The old N91 did go to outer West London whereas the modern N91 is based on the daytime 91 route to Crouch End, as you say. It does need more buses on Sat night as compared to Fri because it performs 25 journeys on Sat and 20 on Fri, and one or two other routes also have a slight increase but agree on general proposition that frequencies are almost identical both nights.

Well, it needs the same number of buses for longer - the only reason for more journeys are because it runs later on Sunday morning in lieu of an earlier start for the local routes.

 

[Simon11]

I just wish they would have a tube line heading for North West London open as well. Why can't they open the full Central, Pic lines or have the Met/Bakerloo operating so people in this region have at least one option.

Seems slightly unfair that customers in the north/ North East have all their tube lines operating.

 

[Clip]

I just wish they would have a tube line heading for North West London open as well. Why can't they open the full Central, Pic lines or have the Met/Bakerloo operating so people in this region have at least one option.

Seems slightly unfair that customers in the north/ North East have all their tube lines operating.

And those in the south would say its was even more unfair that tehy generally dont have a tube system at all and trains that generally stop at 0130 so they simply have to use buses.

But lets not worry about those.

Me Im made up as getting a night bus back to the stow is annoying

 

[radamfi]

And those in the south would say its was even more unfair that tehy generally dont have a tube system at all and trains that generally stop at 0130 so they simply have to use buses.

Unless you live near Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Purley (also Horley, Gatwick and Three Bridges) where they have fast trains running through the night 7 days a week. I'd rather have that than a stopping Tube running two nights a week.

 

[Deerfold]

Unless you live near Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Purley (also Horley, Gatwick and Three Bridges) where they have fast trains running through the night 7 days a week. I'd rather have that than a stopping Tube running two nights a week.

Though, at hourly intervals, need a bit more planning / waiting than a 6tph tube.

 

[radamfi]

Though, at hourly intervals, need a bit more planning / waiting than a 6tph tube.

Although East Croydon, Gatwick and Three Bridges also enjoy overnight Thameslink services as well.

 

[Deerfold]

Although East Croydon, Gatwick and Three Bridges also enjoy overnight Thameslink services as well.

Except on a Saturday night, yes.

 

[martynbristow]

Wait, why is the RMT objecting this time? Is it just their stock response to anything...

It does seem that way from the press :/

Without getting into the other debate the RMT comments were .... well unhelpful
Given the surge in demand getting people in important

I think some more constructive criticism would be a little more helpful.

We should be looking to solve problems not use them for obstructions

 

[Deerfold]

It does seem that way from the press :/

Without getting into the other debate the RMT comments were .... well unhelpful
Given the surge in demand getting people in important

I think some more constructive criticism would be a little more helpful.

We should be looking to solve problems not use them for obstructions

As I mentioned earlier, I think they're upset that this is part of the same package that sees reductions in staffing at stations and the closure of most ticket offices.

 

[Antman]

But if the N73s are running empty, should they still maintain the service as is?

This is the issue, surely there will have to be some reductions on the nightbus network on Fri/Sat nights when the tubes are running? The N5 and N20 are more or less tube replacement services.

 

[Deerfold]

This is the issue, surely there will have to be some reductions on the nightbus network on Fri/Sat nights when the tubes are running? The N5 and N20 are more or less tube replacement services.

I'd imagine so, but I doubt any will become less frequent than they are Sun-Thu.

 

[83G/84D]

But from what I saw on the BBC this morning, many are now thinking this is a step towards 24/7 running - which seems rather unlikely!

I know there was talk about single line operation years ago, to allow the other line to be maintained, but realistically that is never going to happen. Far too confusing, and needing all new signs that can change etc.

I think weekends are going to be just fine.

Most engineering work requires all train services stopped and there isn't much that could be done on the underground with one line of two electrified & open, tunnels, platforms etc.

Non starter imo.

 

[Mikey C]

I just wish they would have a tube line heading for North West London open as well. Why can't they open the full Central, Pic lines or have the Met/Bakerloo operating so people in this region have at least one option.

Seems slightly unfair that customers in the north/ North East have all their tube lines operating.

Presumably they've evaluated existing usage on late trains and night buses in deciding which branches to open. It does look like a conscious decision not to open any of the sub surface lines as well

 

[yorksrob]

Great stuff. Now all we need is for local trains from other cities to operate beyond half ten in the evening and we might be getting somewhere.