Newbury & District

[markymark2000]

More likely is that it serves the needs of pass holders who can get the bus into town, do what they need to do in terms of shopping or banking or hospital or whatever. A two hourly bus service just doesn't meet the needs of workers especially if there is any fluidity in their hours.

Right now it will be more based off traffic into Newbury, of course. You would have to remake the timetable to try and cover the extension and the shift times at each end of the route. You will not fit everyones shift patterns (unless you run every 15 minutes 24/7) but you can try to cover as much as possible. Pass holders are more fluid in their travel patterns and so adjusting the route to accommodate more workers shifts would be generally ok. Given there are a good number of routes around which are built to suit schools, this would be similar to that, suiting work times. To go a step further pass holders have no right to complain when they don't pay a fare anyway though that's another topic.

We shall see what funding is allocated but, I ask you, who is really like to spend an hour (each way) on what would frankly be an extended rural bus service (on what I recall aren't the best roads). Will anyone really wish to spend two hours/day on an e200 rather than 40 mins round trip in the car?

I suppose when looking to introduce the link, there are 2 ways of going about it. The cheap way (extending the 6) or the maximum impact way (a faster bus). Cheaper ways take into account councils budgets and for maximum impact it depends on a lot of additional funding. If there is more funding then as per the BSIP, a faster, more regular link is 100% the best way to go (though extending the 6 would be good as well to give the villages a link to Didcot). If you create the link within the current budget then your only way would be extending the 6. Both ways are doable, both would have very different results though. There is no reason why both couldn't be done though. Linking the villages for shopping at Didcot and the faster link for the workers.

I believe the current professional's judgement on what works, above amateurs' comments and criticisms.

To call some people in this industry 'professionals' I think is overkill. Unless you mean professional idiots. I mean, if the industry was ran by actual professionals, it wouldn't be in such a shocking state. You can not genuinely sit there and say that the bus network is in the best place it could be. Due to the incompetence of councils and bus operators in some areas, the bus network has never been in a worse state.

Newbury and Didcot have never had a direct road connection and are in different river valleys and counties. Their local news, events, schools, general life, etc are completely different.

This did give me a giggle. Let's stop transport links because of the rivers or local news regions.... What a load of tosh. I best let bus operators know to stop their cross county services because god forbid a bus crosses between newspaper districts or over a county border. Thou shall be confined to the county in which they live. Are these the lengths we are going to go to now to stop improvements to buses.
I best ask my local paper the exact boundaries of where they distribute to so then I can plan out where I can work and shop.

The car is just too flexible and convenient in a spread out world. If the car gets too expensive you would be more likely to move to Didcot or Wantage or change jobs, than rely on an infrequent and subsidised bus. One rural route I know had loud squeals when the route ran out of money and stopped, from about 2 people who used it 3 days a week for work

Let's put more money into enabling people to drive then if cars are the solution. I mean, that hasn't failed us so far has it!

Using tax payers money for essentially private transport is irresponsible.

You mean like taxpayers funding road building projects or road capacity upgrades. Or perhaps the fact that taxpayers who don't even drive are often subsidising peoples parking. The list will go on for taxpayers funding private transport.

Given these nuggets, I shall not respond to any other parts of that reply.

 

[richard13]

Right now it will be more based off traffic into Newbury, of course. You would have to remake the timetable to try and cover the extension and the shift times at each end of the route. You will not fit everyones shift patterns (unless you run every 15 minutes 24/7) but you can try to cover as much as possible. Pass holders are more fluid in their travel patterns and so adjusting the route to accommodate more workers shifts would be generally ok. Given there are a good number of routes around which are built to suit schools, this would be similar to that, suiting work times. To go a step further pass holders have no right to complain when they don't pay a fare anyway though that's another topic.


I suppose when looking to introduce the link, there are 2 ways of going about it. The cheap way (extending the 6) or the maximum impact way (a faster bus). Cheaper ways take into account councils budgets and for maximum impact it depends on a lot of additional funding. If there is more funding then as per the BSIP, a faster, more regular link is 100% the best way to go (though extending the 6 would be good as well to give the villages a link to Didcot). If you create the link within the current budget then your only way would be extending the 6. Both ways are doable, both would have very different results though. There is no reason why both couldn't be done though. Linking the villages for shopping at Didcot and the faster link for the workers.



To call some people in this industry 'professionals' I think is overkill. Unless you mean professional idiots. I mean, if the industry was ran by actual professionals, it wouldn't be in such a shocking state. You can not genuinely sit there and say that the bus network is in the best place it could be. Due to the incompetence of councils and bus operators in some areas, the bus network has never been in a worse state.


This did give me a giggle. Let's stop transport links because of the rivers or local news regions.... What a load of tosh. I best let bus operators know to stop their cross county services because god forbid a bus crosses between newspaper districts or over a county border. Thou shall be confined to the county in which they live. Are these the lengths we are going to go to now to stop improvements to buses.
I best ask my local paper the exact boundaries of where they distribute to so then I can plan out where I can work and shop.


Let's put more money into enabling people to drive then if cars are the solution. I mean, that hasn't failed us so far has it!


You mean like taxpayers funding road building projects or road capacity upgrades. Or perhaps the fact that taxpayers who don't even drive are often subsidising peoples parking. The list will go on for taxpayers funding private transport.

Given these nuggets, I shall not respond to any other parts of that reply.

Public transport is for group travel between set places at set times. For individual's needs it will often be a compromise or possibly non existent. Today it is hard to find groups wanting to do the same thing - everything is flexible. In my former rural community, between pupils and teachers we supported 8 different schools - thus no school bus, but don't look for a taxi before 9am.

Most people only travel for a need and not for fun. The destination has to be expected to fulfil that need. That requires pre knowledge of the destination.

Car ownership: According to Government statistics nearly 80% of English households have at least 1 car/van and 1/3 have 2 or more. That leaves only 20% of households using only public transport and whether they are mostly single people or families it doesn't say. The number without a car has been declining almost every year for the last 50 years, balanced by an increase in owning 2 or more. One car households has stayed pretty constant at 45% over the 50 years.
Car driving: The main changes recently has been the increase in elderly women driving and at the other end the reduction of young men driving. This has reduced the need for rural buses, but increased the need for city centre cycle lanes.

Bus use requires walking and carrying and standing in the rain - car use does not and so the elderly and disabled drive while possible.

The bus industry managers will have a good knowledge of what the area needs; they have access to facts and figures. Whether they can deliver that with the resources available is another matter. Some of the recent Stagecoach cut and paste of cross city routes has shown more imagination than for some time. Councillors and councils are different and may have little interest in or understanding of buses; buses are not their primary job. Passengers are mostly interested in their personal convenience - I travelled on the last day of a semi-rural Stagecoach route being withdrawn recently and there where lots of goodbyes. One passenger however was complaining about the withdrawal and had written to the local councillor and paper, but why - she would now have to change buses when she went on holiday (the new connection runs every 20mins).

Looking at Newbury and Didcot. (I don't live there, but I have been to both on foot.)
As there is no direct road between them (the A34 serves neither) and no public transport, the likely hood is that few residents of one have ever been to the other. I have lived on a rural hillside half a mile from the county boundary running along the hill top. As our nearest post office and other facilities were in the other county, we quickly saw our lack of knowledge of the other county and vice versa. The local papers, local TV, council, schools, advertisements, local businesses,... are all different and unknown. The lack of knowledge was a surprise - a different world only a mile or so away. As I said above, if you don't know what is over the hill, you are unlikely to go there, unless you are an explorer. None of the bus routes across that border run more than 5 times a day and are mostly funded by post 16 education and subsides. Historically the bus routes were less or non-existent. Most people travel in the part of the world they know and that is often quite small. There is no group requirement for a Newbury to Didcot bus even weekly.

Harwell Campus has a website with a banner of "Using our world-leading facilities, Harwell’s community of experts is pioneering advances in Energy, Space, Health and Quantum Computing." This sounds like well paid jobs and not minimum wage shift work for most - so car owners. There is an existing new-ish network of bus routes from the new housing in South Oxfordshire which is presumably sufficient. West Berkshire is not known for its social housing and high un-employment, rather the reverse. If it was poor, subsidising buses to a location of job opportunities might be beneficial. Here it is simply not necessary. Most people do not look for work outside their possible travel area unless it is well or very well paid. If you do take a job in another area, you move to be in that travel area - why take the job otherwise?

Newbury to Didcot or Harwell Campus has no need or desire for a direct bus. The residents needs in a group sense are met. There is frequent public transport via Reading.

The public transport map has many gaps. In some cases buses and trains do not compete. In others there is just insufficient group demand - the demand is in other directions.

 

[heathrowrail]

There is a 2 hourly through train from Bournemouth, Southampton, Winchester and Basingstoke to Reading, Oxford, Birmingham and Manchester (Cross Country) with Reading to Manchester every hour change at Birmingham for Leeds, Newcastle and Edinburgh. Newbury is via Reading and Didcot via Oxford, both at least 2 an hour. There are good North- South rail links, but they don't follow the A34. Newbury and Didcot have very good train services for their size and via Reading access to most of the country frequently.

National Express offers a frequent service, but via change in London.

The Falcon's main market is Plymouth to Bristol Airport, but Exeter, Taunton and central Bristol all contribute useful traffic flows. Bristol airport is big and it's busiest time is 06:00 to 07:30 with holiday flights starting, hence the all night service.

Going via Reading is incredibly expensive actually. From Newbury to Bath it can add up to £70 to a return journey.

 

[Mike Redding]

Newbury Buses as was, used to run both the 6 and 9 to Harwell and Didcot 15 years ago.

I grew up in Newbury, and the points made here are generally right. There just isn't the links between Newbury and Oxford/Southampton/Oxford that a quick 20 mins on the train to Reading can't offer.

Reading buses pretty much gave up on Newbury around 2007/2008 I believe(?), Sold the depot on Hambridge lane etc. Most of the services were taken over by Weavaway Travel, under the Newbury and District name. Except the former route 102 (now the Jet Black or something?) Which became a Reading Buses route, subcontracted to Weavaway/N&D.

Reading Buses then appeared to have a change of heart, and, I assume, won the tenders for some routes in Newbury and operated them under the Kennections brand. Eventually Reading then took over the Newbury and District brand from Weavaway, and now here we are, all back under one roof, just with the depot and bus station in different places, and most of the routes cut back to shells of what they once were...

 

[Porte Molitor]

Newbury Buses as was, used to run both the 6 and 9 to Harwell and Didcot 15 years ago.

I grew up in Newbury, and the points made here are generally right. There just isn't the links between Newbury and Oxford/Southampton/Oxford that a quick 20 mins on the train to Reading can't offer.

Reading buses pretty much gave up on Newbury around 2007/2008 I believe(?), Sold the depot on Hambridge lane etc. Most of the services were taken over by Weavaway Travel, under the Newbury and District name. Except the former route 102 (now the Jet Black or something?) Which became a Reading Buses route, subcontracted to Weavaway/N&D.

Reading Buses then appeared to have a change of heart, and, I assume, won the tenders for some routes in Newbury and operated them under the Kennections brand. Eventually Reading then took over the Newbury and District brand from Weavaway, and now here we are, all back under one roof, just with the depot and bus station in different places, and most of the routes cut back to shells of what they once were...

That's pretty much how Newbury and District came into Reading Buses fold. They shut down all the ex-Beeline stuff with exception of 102 / 1 which was outsourced to Weavaway using Reading's buses. They did however see it worthwhile staying in the town for the lucrative private Vodafone contract. However Vodafone centralising their operations at one site in the north of the town and then Covid bringing in hybrid working means there is a lot less buses on the contract.
West Berkshire Council have over past few years being v. supportive of services, although like every local authority they have to watch expenditure. As TheGrandWazoo says a lot of the local authority is rural and affluent. The three main towns, Calcot, Newbury and Thatcham are considerably less affluent. Calcot is well catered for as a Reading suburb with buses provided commercially by Reading Buses. However, there are a number of estates in Newbury and Thatcham that require supported bus services, which is where a lot of the money goes. In 2016 they tendered almost all local bus services in one package, with the exception of a couple of local rural routes that were operated by West Berkshire Council themselves. The previous expansionist regime at Reading Buses bid and won the contract which they operated under the awful name of Kennections. With the 1 being taken back in house and all the West Berks contracts lost Weavaway did run commercially the Newbury Thatcham services for a while, but in 2018 they gave up and sold their bus services to Reading. Reading then did run some of the Thatcham services on a commercial basis, but post Covid they are fully funded by West Berks.
As a reasonably regular visitor to area, I don't find Newbury and District too bad. Yes the drivers always seem in a hurry, but I suspect it's due to the schedules being v. tight. It's not just N&D, on the 1 towards Reading, buses can leave Newbury on time and with no traffic still arrive in Thatcham a few minutes late. The buses are always clean and presentable, just like the West Berkshire Council services I've used. I find buses in West Berks are pretty good, not that frequent, but the fares are good value and the council's website is excellent in terms of info.
I won't say much about a Newbury to Didcot or Oxford service other than Oxford Bus always seem willing to try new routes, even if they don't succeed, so I'm assuming that if they don't think it worth it, there isn't a lot of hope. I can't imagine a massive amount of S106 money becoming available or Oxfordshire Council deciding to support such a service.

 

[heathrowrail]

Newbury Buses as was, used to run both the 6 and 9 to Harwell and Didcot 15 years ago.

I grew up in Newbury, and the points made here are generally right. There just isn't the links between Newbury and Oxford/Southampton/Oxford that a quick 20 mins on the train to Reading can't offer.

Reading buses pretty much gave up on Newbury around 2007/2008 I believe(?), Sold the depot on Hambridge lane etc. Most of the services were taken over by Weavaway Travel, under the Newbury and District name. Except the former route 102 (now the Jet Black or something?) Which became a Reading Buses route, subcontracted to Weavaway/N&D.

Reading Buses then appeared to have a change of heart, and, I assume, won the tenders for some routes in Newbury and operated them under the Kennections brand. Eventually Reading then took over the Newbury and District brand from Weavaway, and now here we are, all back under one roof, just with the depot and bus station in different places, and most of the routes cut back to shells of what they once were...

I live in Newbury. Going via Reading on the train is nearly £20 return with a railcard to Oxford and takes 1h 30 minutes, a bus service could be half that price and only take 50 minutes. If it wasn't a good idea why is the local MP trying to get funding to put one in place?

 

[NorthOxonian]

I live in Newbury. Going via Reading on the train is nearly £20 return with a railcard to Oxford and takes 1h 30 minutes, a bus service could be half that price and only take 50 minutes. If it wasn't a good idea why is the local MP trying to get funding to put one in place?

I find it hard to believe that such a service would take 50 minutes from Newbury to Oxford. The fastest express service along the A34 into Oxford is the X32 which runs non-stop from Milton Park (just west of Didcot) - that is timetabled to take half an hour. It's a similar distance again to Newbury; so an hour total would be a plausible journey time but that's for a non stop route that doesn't divert to serve Harwell or Didcot. Then there's the question of frequency - the trains offer two journeys per hour but any bus service would most likely be hourly (possibly even less), meaning that even if the bus was faster than the two trains, waiting times would be longer and the service would be less convenient.

When I lived in Oxford, I travelled around the region a lot - mainly but not exclusively for leisure reasons. I visited Newbury a grand total of three times. It's a perfectly pleasant market town but it isn't somewhere people from north of the downs will have a particular reason to visit. Contrast that with somewhere like Reading which has shops and facilities not found in Oxford; I visited there many times and the trains or buses I used to get there were almost always well used. I would love a link like this to succeed - but I just don't see the demand coming from anywhere.