New Ticket Design Launched

[jon0844]

It's not a QR code, but an Aztec code (if it has a square in the centre) and they can contain encrypted data - but I am not entirely sure what data it actually holds. It could quite easily contain a lot of useful information to help against fraud, as such codes can contain quite a bit of data.

 

[Paul Kelly]

As far as I understand the Aztec code (or whatever it is!) is digitally signed by the issuer of the ticket (in this case East Coast), meaning it should be possible to verify the ticket is genuine with a suitably programmed reader/scanner device, and impossible to forge a ticket with such a code (unlike the new Parkeon layout - no security features there).

 

[johntea]

I finally got one of the new design tickets yesterday!

One thing that has been annoying me is how my Off Peak Day Return from Wakefield to Chesterfield states 'Valid for one journey from Wakefield Stations to Chesterfield'.

Well erm no, I can have multiple journey breaks between the two stops during the day of validity if I so wish thanks! :P

The wording just sounds 'wrong'!

 

[Jonfun]

I'm not sure I agree. There's nothing to say you can't break your "one journey", splitting it into parts doesn't make it any less of a journey.

This morning, I walked from home to the station, took my first train, went from that train to the coffee shop, went from the coffee shop to my next train, and took that into work. Just because it's broken down into sections doesn't mean it wasn't still a journey from home to work.

 

[jon0844]

I wonder how the new ticket design will display a first class supplement on a Gold Card.

I've got a few recently and on a single ticket, it shows validity as being within the from and to stations - which is incorrect, as it's a supplement for the whole day, as long as I hold tickets for those routes (and none of it being covered by my season ticket in the week).

If I get a return, it shows:

For use on direction
EITHER

Which also makes little sense. Again, it's valid all day. It's valid both directions, and even though it's tied to a particular ticket number, it would also work with any other ticket I bought.

What I haven't yet bought is a Travelcard with the supplement to see what's written on those.

 

[TEW]

Saw a new style Advance ticket for the first time the other day. I actually think it looks quite good, certainly much better than the new style walk up tickets do.

 

[Paul Kelly]

It doesn't show which TOCs it's valid on. Presumably then if a connecting train is missed due to a delay within the control of the rail industry, you can continue on the next available train as it isn't possible to tell which TOC's trains the ticket is supposed to be restricted to!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It gives the train time and it's an advance so presumably they think the TOC is obvious?

 

[Paul Kelly]

My point was that it doesn't indicate that it's restricted to the services of any particular TOC, thus any attempt to enforce such a restriction (in the event that travel wasn't possible on the booked train) would be unenforceable (à la NRCoC Condition 10).

 

[CallySleeper]

It doesn't show which TOCs it's valid on. Presumably then if a connecting train is missed due to a delay within the control of the rail industry, you can continue on the next available train as it isn't possible to tell which TOC's trains the ticket is supposed to be restricted to!

The specific unreserved 'connecting' TOC is surely irrelevant? For example you currently have 'East Coast + connections', unless the 'connection' also has a reservation why should there be a restriction on it?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Doesn't the line where it says "valid only on the following services" followed by a specific train time and seat effectively do that?

I would take the "suitable connecting services" part to mean any reasonably timed connecting service on the unreserved part regardless of TOC, just like at present?

 

[Paul Kelly]

Some confusion over the term "connecting train" here I think. Maybe we need an example. Passenger buys a "CrossCountry Only" advance from Leamington Spa (LMS) to Nottingham (NOT) via Derby (DBY). The LMS-DBY train is delayed and passenger misses the connection to the DBY-NOT train. The advance fares rules entitle the passenger to travel on a later train, but the TOC restriction shown on the ticket still applies.

Suppose the next train from DBY-NOT is operated by East Midlands Trains. With the old ticket format, the ticket would be marked "XC ONLY" and would not be valid on the EMT service; the passenger would need to wait for the next CrossCountry service. With the new print format there is no TOC restriction shown on the ticket; the passenger should therefore be permitted to take the next available service, i.e. the one operated by EMT.

 

[jon0844]

Saw a new style Advance ticket for the first time the other day. I actually think it looks quite good, certainly much better than the new style walk up tickets do.

Still needs the spacing sorted IMO. The text at the top still overlaps the orange section, for example.

 

[bengolding]

I collected an Anytime ticket from an EMT collection TVM earlier, and the ticket came out in the new design. Must have changed today as yesterday I had the old design. Not overly impressed with the smaller text, which will be a problem for visually impaired customers.

The lack of publicity in rolling out the new design must be confusing many people unfamiliar with it, as the new style may seem as a receipt.

 

[Starmill]

I was in the East Coast travel centre at Leeds the other day, someone had picked up an Advance on one coupon at the Northern ToDler machine on the concourse outside Sainsbury's and was explaining that they thought something had gone wrong and was worried they wouldn't be able to travel with it. The member of staff working there said they didn't recognise it or know what it was or why it looked like that, and that although it should be OK, there was nothing they could do or say about it because Northern operate the machine used by the passenger. As you can imagine, the passenger wasn't satisfied with this (it is given all to often as an excuse for not being helpful) but it seems that the message about what these are is not going in. Even after all this time...

 

[orpine]

I don't know if this is covered in the previous 21 pages of comments, but looking at the original image: http://www.railforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=17469&d=1394199886

It says "... for details ask staff or go to nationrail.co.uk/9l".

Has anyone gone there? Because there is no nationrail.co.uk/9l (l = lower case L) - after a few attempts it seems to be "nationrail.co.uk/9i" (i = the vowel) - that's some poor typography.
Do the real tickets do this too?

 

[Haywain]

I don't know if this is covered in the previous 21 pages of comments, but looking at the original image: http://www.railforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=17469&d=1394199886

It says "... for details ask staff or go to nationrail.co.uk/9l".

Has anyone gone there? Because there is no nationrail.co.uk/9l (l = lower case L) - after a few attempts it seems to be "nationrail.co.uk/9i" (i = the vowel) - that's some poor typography.
Do the real tickets do this too?

It's probably unfortunate that they chose a fare with a 9I restriction code for the example. There wouldn't be any confusion if it was a 9A or 9W restriction.

 

[Deerfold]

I don't know if this is covered in the previous 21 pages of comments, but looking at the original image: http://www.railforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=17469&d=1394199886

It says "... for details ask staff or go to nationrail.co.uk/9l".

Has anyone gone there? Because there is no nationrail.co.uk/9l (l = lower case L) - after a few attempts it seems to be "nationrail.co.uk/9i" (i = the vowel) - that's some poor typography.
Do the real tickets do this too?

It probably helps if you know that all restriction codes are usually referred to with capital letters, though choosing a font which distinguished would help too.

 

[orpine]

It probably helps if you know that all restriction codes are usually referred to with capital letters, though choosing a font which distinguished would help too.

Fair point; but people who know are unlikely to need that part of the ticket anyway.

 

[Deerfold]

Fair point; but people who know are unlikely to need that part of the ticket anyway.

Quite - but at least they can show the line to staff who don't know about it .

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Got a staff brief today that says this new design is going nationwide, with no obvious differences in style following the 'trial'. TVM tickets will apparently change first, with aspirations to have all 'credit card size' tickets in the new style "eventually". No timescale is actually given though. No images were given for excess fares, Railcards, season tickets or Anytime Singles (I presume the latter to be an oversight). An error has already been spotted on one of the examples in the brief though.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Got a staff brief today that says this new design is going nationwide, with no obvious differences in style following the 'trial'. TVM tickets will apparently change first, with aspirations to have all 'credit card size' tickets in the new style "eventually". No timescale is actually given though. No images were given for excess fares, Railcards, season tickets or Anytime Singles (I presume the latter to be an oversight). An error has already been spotted on one of the examples in the brief though.

The brief also said, I think, that the aim is to eventually have all tickets printed in the same font, irrespective of where it comes from.

 

[bb21]

The brief also said, I think, that the aim is to eventually have all tickets printed in the same font, irrespective of where it comes from.

They could do that for a start right now tbh.

 

[yorksrob]

Got a staff brief today that says this new design is going nationwide, with no obvious differences in style following the 'trial'. TVM tickets will apparently change first, with aspirations to have all 'credit card size' tickets in the new style "eventually". No timescale is actually given though. No images were given for excess fares, Railcards, season tickets or Anytime Singles (I presume the latter to be an oversight). An error has already been spotted on one of the examples in the brief though.

Is that the new format with everything squashed in a corner with tiny writing?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The one seen at the start of the thread.

 

[Haywain]

They could do that for a start right now tbh.

They could if it wasn't going to involve paying the TIS suppliers what would probably be extortionate amounts of money to do it.

 

[class303]

Got a staff brief today that says this new design is going nationwide, with no obvious differences in style following the 'trial'. TVM tickets will apparently change first, with aspirations to have all 'credit card size' tickets in the new style "eventually". No timescale is actually given though. No images were given for excess fares, Railcards, season tickets or Anytime Singles (I presume the latter to be an oversight). An error has already been spotted on one of the examples in the brief though.

Great. Finally an end to needing 4 tickets for an advance return journey.

 

[ashworth]

Great. Finally an end to needing 4 tickets for an advance return journey.

Completely agree. When doing an advance journey with lots of changes of train you really had to be careful to keep all those tickets safely together.

I used to like the old airline style tickets that printed all of the information including suggested connecting services. This was very useful if doing a long advance journey with lots of changes where only one part of the journey towards the end of the journey was the reserved part.
For example I've done Mansfield to Blackpool with a Virgin West Coast and Connections ticket. The only reserved section of the journey was from Crewe to Preston. That involved 3 unreserved EMT trains to get from Mansfield to Crewe. When they are not listed on your ticket you do need to refer to your print out, or carefully look at timetables, to make sure that you get to Crewe in time for your reserved part of the journey. Mistakes could easily be made by someone not so used to travelling.

 

[bb21]

They could if it wasn't going to involve paying the TIS suppliers what would probably be extortionate amounts of money to do it.

I'm not saying it is easy, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a ridiculous situation we are in atm where it is impossible for revenue staff to tell in many cases whether a ticket is genuine or not from a cursory glance as there are so many different fonts and styles around. There should only be one style and one font for the whole system. We should never have been in this situation in the first place. The move towards a uniform font is a positive move, even though I am still of the opinion that the proposed design leaves a lot to be desired, but hey, who am I to tell them what to do?

Then again don't get me started on how overpriced IT projects are, and how companies seem to get ripped off left, right and centre even for the most basic tasks.

 

[jon0844]

There are perhaps some hidden benefits of a range of designs when it comes to detecting forged tickets. People might use the wrong font for a ticket that is meant to have been printed by a TVM or over the counter. Or get the date spelling wrong etc.

But from a customer point of view, one single design is better.