New Ticket Design Launched

[Jones]

Not when they contain many abbreviations which are meaningless to the ordinary person; such as "XC ONLY" or "VWC & CONNECTNS"

Would that be Cross Country and Virgin west coast & connections?

If so, hardly a Mensa test is it?

One wonders if they should be out on their own.....

 

[transmanche]

Would that be Cross Country and Virgin west coast & connections?

If so, hardly a Mensa test is it?

Yeah, it's easy to be smug when you know the answer isn't it? :roll:

But like I said, to the ordinary person "XC ONLY" in the route section might not mean anything. And how an ordinary person is meant to guess 'Virgin West Coast' when there's no company of that name operating trains...?

 

[Deerfold]

I will admit I haven't read the 6 pages, but a question pop's to mind......

Are we as a nation so dumbed down to the point that people can't read the current ticket?

if so, we've bigger problems that a rail ticket.

We appear to be dumbed down enough that plenty of people can't spell "pops".

 

[jon0844]

If the new ticket design has the option of adding a barcode, I wonder if we could one day have a TVM (or at least an app on a smartphone) that can read the code and sell another identical ticket?

Lots of people keep older tickets and know what they want, but it's not always easy to find that ticket on a TVM. But if it had a barcode, or a unique reference number of some sort to allow you to enter that (like for a ticket booked online, but probably longer) and it reproduces that exact ticket, it could be very useful and timesaving.

Personally, I'd like to see someone (DfT, ATOC?) acknowledge that TVM software is pretty awful and seek to have it redesigned by someone that understands about usability testing and the way real people, of all ages, interact with systems (using eye-tracking and so on) and then develop a way to make it easier for both novices, foreigners and regular commuters to get what they want.

Sadly, I expect many existing systems might need to be upgraded (which will probably mean my idea never happens) as so many current systems have such awful touchscreens that it can be a nightmare to even collect reserved tickets. Only the other day, someone got really angry with a TVM because he couldn't successfully enter his code - the screen either didn't respond, or else repeated one letter about 3-4 times.

I only got my ticket because all I needed to do was select a preset destination and apply a railcard, but even I often have to press a few times - and sometimes have it go mad so I have to cancel and start over.

Tell the staff the touchscreen is playing up and they just look at you as if to say 'seems fine to me' and do nothing (as proven by the fact it's never fixed).

The new ticket design is a step in the right direction, but lots needs to be done still to help people actually FIND the right ticket and pay the right fare.

 

[Jones]

We appear to be dumbed down enough that plenty of people can't spell "pops".

Touché.

 

[jon0844]

Me have ticket. Me travel. No meet RPI. Ug.

 

[Jones]

Perhaps the real issue is that the whole system is far too complicated.

 

[island]

Perhaps the real issue is that the whole system is far too complicated.

That's arguable.

 

[talldave]

Perhaps the real issue is that the whole system is far too complicated.

I'd second that - take my other thread, for example: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=97926 where the best value ticket for a journey is one to somewhere else other than where you're actually going (an approach that always works for the Gatwick Express as well).

It's crazy!

I always buy online, specifically to avoid the rubbish touchscreens - it means all I have to do is thump and stab at the "Collect" blob which is quite large...

 

[34D]

Hi '34D', yes I will do that, thanks.

@ Crossover:

In terms of the Concession single and return its a dilemma:

1. Do we move CNS and CNR to further into the process so its less obvious, however people who buy that fare then complain that the TVM does not offer the best fare for them if it is not easy to find;

2. Leave CNS/CNR where they are and people will accidentally or deliberately buy it and it causes issues on train;

I would be interested to hear forum members views. Don't take this the wrong way, but instead of saying its a 'stupid idea', lets hear some constructive comments on how the machine could be programmed better

Thanks

Ian

Ian,

What I would like to see is that people touch their ITSO pass on the TVM * which then validates the number as being a WY encts card, and then opens up the correct menu.

* - all TVM's in West Yorks, south Yorks and Greater Manc will need ITSO readers soon, in order to be able to top up cards etc.

There is one major flaw with the above: when all the stations get ITSO pads, it seems fair to me that the people be told to load credit onto their Metro ENCTS passes (all ones that expire in 2016 and later have a 'wallet' already incorporated), and then travel by touching in and touching out - this could be part of the main M-Card PAYG project planned for early 2015.

Arguably the simplest way to deal with cards that don't work is to tell the person to get their card replaced, and pay full fare for the fortnight.

 

[falcon]

I have just seen on another forum a picture of the supposed new travel tickets.On the ticket where it used to say "SEE RESTRICTIONS" it now says "ASK STAFF". LOL.

How is that going to be enforceable? The passenger will just say "I asked the staff" whether the information was correct or not as long as they ASK that's it! If evidence that ATOC is completely unfit for purpose this has to be it.:roll:

 

[jon0844]

A lot of people will be asking that member of staff on the platform. Or a cleaner!

But, to be fair, asking staff about restrictions is valid advice - if people can't easily access the web when they're out (or simply don't want to).

 

[PermitToTravel]

What about when staff actively lie to you about the restrictions, possibly even turning the screen away from you after they'd cockily started to show you, to save face?

 

[RJ]

I have just seen on another forum a picture of the supposed new travel tickets.On the ticket where it used to say "SEE RESTRICTIONS" it now says "ASK STAFF". LOL.

How is that going to be enforceable? The passenger will just say "I asked the staff" whether the information was correct or not as long as they ASK that's it! If evidence that ATOC is completely unfit for purpose this has to be it.:roll:

Having seen this "ASK STAFF," I am opposed to the introduction of this new ticketing style. Senior retail/systems staff at the TOCs and ATOC understand what a restriction code is. Sometimes I wonder if they are completely oblivious to the fact that scores of us on the ground working as ticket office clerks and ticket inspectors have not got a clue how the restriction system works.

To find the correct restriction on a ticket, you have to know that each ticket 'has a restriction assigned to it. Many of us front line staff don't know that. As such, passengers are likely to be given rubbish information, like all Off Peak tickets are only valid after 0930. Add blanket evening peak restrictions where a station has them. Passengers aren't silly either - they bring printouts from online and ask why it's telling them that an off peak ticket is valid at that time, when staff at various points of the journey are saying it's not. You'd be surprised at how often I print out restriction codes and give them to people. They understand when someone who knows what they're talking about communicates with them in an easy to understand manner. The same would go for staff given half a chance - and briefs that mysteriously appear on noticeboards or in ticket offices don't always cut it.

Senior staff should understand that when they issue briefs that make sense to them, the intended audience doesn't always understand or remember them. Anything more than a few sentences, people switch off. Indeed on the ground, there is something of a derisory attitude towards such briefings, to the point where it is clearly apparent that there is a communication barrier.

The industry should use the tools at its disposal. If the powers that be want to tell passengers to ask staff for information on restrictions, they need to train staff up on how restrictions work and how to find the relevant text. Senior staff and trainers should identify the front line staff who do understand those things and engage with them. Then work out how they can communicate effectively with their colleagues. Preferably before these ASK STAFF tickets become popular.

 

[swt_passenger]

I have just seen on another forum a picture of the supposed new travel tickets.On the ticket where it used to say "SEE RESTRICTIONS" it now says "ASK STAFF"...

You could also have seen this on the first post of this thread as well. But picking out two words fails to explain the whole statement. They haven't simply replaced 'see restrictions' with 'ask staff' if you read the whole thing.

The example actually says "This off-peak ticket can only be used at certain times, for details ask staff or go to national rail.co.uk/9I". Now I remember people saying a while ago what a good idea it was to add a link to the actual published restrictions. Why is this no longer so?

 

[VisualAcid]

I have just seen on another forum a picture of the supposed new travel tickets.On the ticket where it used to say "SEE RESTRICTIONS" it now says "ASK STAFF". LOL.

How is that going to be enforceable? The passenger will just say "I asked the staff" whether the information was correct or not as long as they ASK that's it! If evidence that ATOC is completely unfit for purpose this has to be it.:roll:

That's ridiculous. I almost got PF'ed on Thameslink due to confusion with London Terminals to Bedford after I asked someone in a first uniform...the RPI rang up to find a cleaner had confirmed my ticket was valid! Are tickets this complicated in Europe etc.?

 

[thedbdiboy]

Having seen this "ASK STAFF," I am opposed to the introduction of this new ticketing style.

It is not expected that every member of staff will be able to know or help with a restriction; but it is entirely reasonable that any member of staff should be able to direct a passenger as to where they can find the information out.

As has already been pointed out, the full text actually includes a web link to the restriction as well.

On that basis, I do find it hard to understand why it can be argued that the old method of printing 'see restrictions' with absolutely no other information can be seen as better.

 

[hassaanhc]

What about a QR code on tickets which takes you to a webpage with restriction details?
Can't remember now where the new design puts restriction codes but I know on the old ones it is in small print, had I not seen the restriction code on brfares I would never have known that the tiny UT US next to "Validity" is the restriction code. Mind you, NRE could be more helpful with the restriction details...

 

[button_boxer]

As has already been pointed out, the full text actually includes a web link to the restriction as well.

And what's more, those web links actually seem to work now, and are surprisingly readable.

 

[158801]

Something that no one has picked up on so far is the month.

MCH has been replaced with Mar

So does this mean ?

JNR is now Jan (no too different to Jun !!)
FEB is still Feb
MCH is now Mar
APR is still Apr
MAY is still May
JUN remains as Jun
JLY becomes Jul (very similiar to Jun !!!)
AUG remains Aug
SEP remains Sep
OCT remains as Oct
NOV stays as Nov
DMR becomes Dec

 

[embers25]

You could also have seen this on the first post of this thread as well. But picking out two words fails to explain the whole statement. They haven't simply replaced 'see restrictions' with 'ask staff' if you read the whole thing.

The example actually says "This off-peak ticket can only be used at certain times, for details ask staff or go to national rail.co.uk/9I". Now I remember people saying a while ago what a good idea it was to add a link to the actual published restrictions. Why is this no longer so?

Its great it tells you which webpage to go to for that restriction (although 9I has several stations where you need to look up other restriction codes for instead and that webpage doesn't tell you how to find those..I know its a simple task but still!). However if I'm on an unstaffed station with no internet coverage and I have to buy before boarding I have no way of checking if my ticket is valid and asking staff is no help as there aren't any and webpages are useless as there's no coverage so the new line is not any more helpful than the current useless "see restrictions".

 

[transmanche]

However if I'm on an unstaffed station with no internet coverage and I have to buy before boarding I have no way of checking if my ticket is valid and asking staff is no help as there aren't any and webpages are useless as there's no coverage so the new line is not any more helpful than the current useless "see restrictions".

Some people will always find something to moan about... :roll:

Of course it's an improvement - in the vast majority of situations someone will be able to look up the restriction code. And in the absence of staff and/or mobile phone coverage, there may be a help point on the station. And of course you could always ask the conductor when the train arrives.

Personally I would prefer it if simple restrictions were printed on the ticket itself (e.g. Valid from 09:30 Mon-Fri, anytime Weekends/Bank Hols), instead of directing passengers to the website.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Its great it tells you which webpage to go to for that restriction (although 9I has several stations where you need to look up other restriction codes for instead and that webpage doesn't tell you how to find those..I know its a simple task but still!). However if I'm on an unstaffed station with no internet coverage and I have to buy before boarding I have no way of checking if my ticket is valid and asking staff is no help as there aren't any and webpages are useless as there's no coverage so the new line is not any more helpful than the current useless "see restrictions".

It's hardly worse than the current system!

 

[LowLevel]

Something that no one has picked up on so far is the month.

MCH has been replaced with Mar

So does this mean ?

JNR is now Jan (no too different to Jun !!)
FEB is still Feb
MCH is now Mar
APR is still Apr
MAY is still May
JUN remains as Jun
JLY becomes Jul (very similiar to Jun !!!)
AUG remains Aug
SEP remains Sep
OCT remains as Oct
NOV stays as Nov
DMR becomes Dec

I hope that doesn't come through on the finished article - the use of some different abbreviations while obviously not always applicable, is quite helpful in identifying knock off tickets.

 

[Qwerty133]

Something that no one has picked up on so far is the month.

MCH has been replaced with Mar

So does this mean ?

JNR is now Jan (no too different to Jun !!)
FEB is still Feb
MCH is now Mar
APR is still Apr
MAY is still May
JUN remains as Jun
JLY becomes Jul (very similiar to Jun !!!)
AUG remains Aug
SEP remains Sep
OCT remains as Oct
NOV stays as Nov
DMR becomes Dec

FEB is currently FBY, looking at my tickets from last month.

 

[158801]

So it is - my mistake. February is February.

Maybe we need Jan rather JNR because people don't like codes and it's confusing.

Just ask the railcard holder that I stopped yesterday with a railcard which expired 17 JNR 14. They thought JNR was June !

 

[maniacmartin]

JNR? Isn't that a Junior's ticket?

 

[bb21]

So it is - my mistake. February is February.

Maybe we need Jan rather JNR because people don't like codes and it's confusing.

Just ask the railcard holder that I stopped yesterday with a railcard which expired 17 JNR 14. They thought JNR was June !

These codes are not exactly that difficult to decipher are they, really? Have we really got to the stage where every single letter has to be spelt out?

Sometimes I do wonder whether some people are just plain stupid or trying to pull a fast one.

 

[island]

Using the same abbreviations for dates that the rest of the English-speaking world uses is not a negative change.

 

[Deerfold]

Using the same abbreviations for dates that the rest of the English-speaking world uses is not a negative change.

Except that it makes it easier to alter tickets to a different date - the reason the odder abbreviations are used in the first place.