New rail lines in Scotland

[318266]

1N79 and 1N80 have now returned in the December timetable change, and can be found here:

Realtime Trains | 1N79 1910 Glasgow Queen Street to Dundee | 15/12/2025

Real-time train running information for 1N79 1910 departure from Glasgow Queen Street to Dundee on 15/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1N80 1915 Dundee to Glasgow Queen Street | 15/12/2025

Real-time train running information for 1N80 1915 departure from Dundee to Glasgow Queen Street on 15/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This is notably two evening runs with no practical use outwith route retention - not suitable for commuters.

 

[numtot12345]

This is notably two evening runs with no practical use outwith route retention - not suitable for commuters.

My thoughts too. Maybe it's just a tick-box to say they have re-instated it. Or maybe they will put back on Commuter ones in the May 26 timetable.

 

[lachlan]

It's not significantly faster than changing trains in Haymarket for Glasgow to Dunfermline or Glasgow to Inverkeithing journeys.

The directs trains are significantly quicker for journeys from Fife to Falkirk or Linlithgow, but this feels rather niche.

A regular service would however enable a Kirkliston station albeit without a direct service to Edinburgh.

 

[numtot12345]

It's not significantly faster than changing trains in Haymarket for Glasgow to Dunfermline or Glasgow to Inverkeithing journeys.

The directs trains are significantly quicker for journeys from Fife to Falkirk or Linlithgow, but this feels rather niche.

A regular service would however enable a Kirkliston station albeit without a direct service to Edinburgh.

If Almond Chord was built, that would enable potential for a direct service to Edinburgh from Kirkliston. I'm sure the hypothetics of what services would stop there has been discussed on this Forum before.

 

[najaB]

This is notably two evening runs with no practical use outwith route retention - not suitable for commuters.

That's pretty much what it is. It may be a prelude to more practically-timed services in a later timetable.

 

[SC318250]

There is also a path in from Inverkeithing Yard to Rosyth Dockyard in the new timetable and return…. Not a hope of this running unless they do some vegetation work and reinstate the points to the branch

 

[Dennyboy]

The Garve/Ullapool and Fort William/Inverness lines were not built even when the railways were at the height of their power and there were no serious alternative means of transport, so how could they possibly be justified now?

However unviable decades ago certain rail-route options, roads weren't then overcrowded at least sufficiently to warrant exploring alternative travel modes. Travrl Census finding may well prove otherwise. Yet given how short-term work/study placements are now more commonplace distance-commuting is often more viable than house-moves, at least enough to support BUS (& frequent at that) services.

 

[MatthewHutton]

However unviable decades ago certain rail-route options, roads weren't then overcrowded at least sufficiently to warrant exploring alternative travel modes. Travrl Census finding may well prove otherwise. Yet given how short-term work/study placements are now more commonplace distance-commuting is often more viable than house-moves, at least enough to support BUS (& frequent at that) services.

Fort William to Glasgow at best covers a third of its costs, and at worst covers significantly less than that, perhaps only 1/20th of its costs. Why would you build Fort William - Inverness or Ullapool - Inverness which there is no way would get as good a traffic as Fort William - Glasgow.

If the bus swings around too much then straighten out some of the bends, if the more tedious tourists doing 40mph the whole way are too slow then get the police to pull them over and remind them of the Highway Code and their need to let faster traffic past.

In terms of south of the central belt given both the east and west coast mainlines already reach the standard for high speed rail I really think the idea that you would do anything more than that is ridiculous. Probably it is worth upgrading Settle-Carlisle and maybe the line via Dumfries to handle all freight between England and Scotland.

 

[HighlandStorm]

Fort William to Glasgow at best covers a third of its costs, and at worst covers significantly less than that, perhaps only 1/20th of its costs. Why would you build Fort William - Inverness or Ullapool - Inverness which there is no way would get as good a traffic as Fort William - Glasgow.

If the bus swings around too much then straighten out some of the bends, if the more tedious tourists doing 40mph the whole way are too slow then get the police to pull them over and remind them of the Highway Code and their need to let faster traffic past.

In terms of south of the central belt given both the east and west coast mainlines already reach the standard for high speed rail I really think the idea that you would do anything more than that is ridiculous. Probably it is worth upgrading Settle-Carlisle and maybe the line via Dumfries to handle all freight between England and Scotland.

Just straighten out some of the bends... is proving pretty intractable on the A82! Aside from Loch Lomondside, Loch Ness and Loch Linnhe though the carriageway is not as narrow present the same basic problem, the road is the way the road is and it hasn't been upgraded, because the topography pretty much dictates it! I've heard that the estimated cost of Tarbet to Inverarnan upgrade is pushing on to the wrong side of 2/3rds of a billion £, and it has to be a much higher priority than other sections of the A82, unless a decision is taken to substantially upgrade the A86 or upgrade the older sections of the A85/A84 route as an alternative to take traffic away from Loch Lomondside. So the odds are that none of the bends are getting straightened out!

The West Highland Line per person subsidy is less than commuter services in NE Scotland. If more appropriate rolling stock with more than one class of accommodation were provided, it might very well be possible to eliminate that ScotRail subsidy entirely. Demand is constrained by overcrowding and poor customer experience for a good chunk of the year. In winter, cold draughty trains and less catering than used to be provided deter potential regular users. Meanwhile, ScotGov is paying out £££ effectively subsidising passengers on CityLink and Ember on the A82. While this is a wider issue, as I have said before, I think the ScotGov National Entitlement Cards should allow free usage of the WHL and Far North Lines with a Highland Railcard and offer the Highland Railcard fare to those who have an NEC card but live outside the area. While not Highland, I'd also bring the Stranraer line into the Highland Railcard setup.

As for the Fort William to Inverness question - wasn't it a case of railway politics and indeed politics in general that this was never built as a through route, my understanding was that it was explicitly blocked?

Need @Bald Rick with a rough comparison between costs of a railway from Fort William to Inverness up the Great Glen, a shorter railway linking the West Highland Line from Tulloch to the Highland Mainline and upgrading 65 miles of the A82 to modern A9 standard (where from the Cromarty Firth to Perth, the criteria was to provide full overtaking sight distance or dual carriageway where it was not cost effective to provide full overtaking sight distances) and an entirely NSL road with no urban sections!

 

[Bald Rick]

Need @Bald Rick with a rough comparison between costs of a railway from Fort William to Inverness up the Great Glen, a shorter railway linking the West Highland Line from Tulloch to the Highland Mainline and upgrading 65 miles of the A82 to modern A9 standard (where from the Cromarty Firth to Perth, the criteria was to provide full overtaking sight distance or dual carriageway where it was not cost effective to provide full overtaking sight distances) and an entirely NSL road with no urban sections!

All would be astronomical, and not necessary. At least £2bn up the Great Glen, and at least half that from
Tulloch to the Highland Line.

I am very familiar with the A82 from Erskine to Inverness, the A84 / A85 from Stirling to Crianlarich, and the A86 from Spean Bridge to Kingussie. My usual route to the West Highlands is always via the A84 / A85 to Crianlarich to avoid Loch Lomondside, and it seems the wagons do that too.

I have driven from Spean Bridge to Dalwhinnie or Kingussie many many times, and the number of vehicles coming the other way can be in single figures. I did it one Friday evening westbound and saw no other traffic at all. There is simply no need for a railway there. The A82 is busier, but very little of the traffic is going the full distance between Fort William to Inverness; much is heading for Skye or the intermediate villages.

What the A82 needs between Tarbet and Ardlui (the only prolonged constrained section) is a couple of stretches for overtaking and widening the narrower parts such that you don’t have to slow down when a coach comes the other way. Oh and a ban on caravans / motorhomes. Awful things.

 

[jeffinabox]

Halbeath is a fine and reasonable place to aspire to put a station, but without some degree of local engagement, you're not going to get it past. As a rule, purely park and ride stations are never cost effective, because the park and ride operator doesn't care about providing the actual station; they'd rather someone else pays for it. If Fife council were interested, you could get a 'Halbeath for Crossgates' station through the planning process, but that's a lot of money for a station with a questionable use basis.

https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/25598695.new-report-reveals-target-alloa-dunfermline-line/

This project seems to still be on Fife Council's wishlist. Is there an argument for closing Dunfermline Queen Margaret station and replacing with Halbeath P&R station?

 

[Dennyboy]

Some of these are quite unrealistic.

It would be better to dual the A75 from Gretna to Stranraer.

Why Ullapool when there are towns like Tillicoultry, Clackmannan, Kinross, Crieff where the same £ spent would benefit vastly more people?

St Andrews and Fraserburgh I get.

Inverness to Fort William would be a sustainable key tourist route if electrified.

If you're going to build an HS line to Edinburgh and build a line to Carlisle through the borders. Maybe just build an HS line through the borders instead? With just two HS trains an hour, there'd be plenty of scope to run a "local" 125mph EMU behind each service.

A more direct Edinburgh-Perth via Kinross appears under consideration.

 

[najaB]

A more direct Edinburgh-Perth via Kinross appears under consideration.

It's been under consideration for a while, but a large part of the best formation is currently under the M90.

 

[waverley47]

A more direct Edinburgh-Perth via Kinross appears under consideration.

Under consideration by whom? There's a vague, 'we'll get around to it at some point in the future' style plan to open a stub from Cowdenbeath to Kinross and extend the 1tph stopper to a park and ride station there, however that's all that is under consideration. I have the appraisal for that one sat on a shelf, and it was placed tenth on a list of ten reopening priorities, so even then, it's not happening for a couple of decades

 

[Kingston Dan]

It's been under consideration for a while, but a large part of the best formation is currently under the M90.

There would of course be nothing to stop them taking over a lane or two of the M90 which would be cheaper than a new alignment.

 

[najaB]

There would of course be nothing to stop them taking over a lane or two of the M90 which would be cheaper than a new alignment.

It's only two lanes in either direction for most of its length.

 

[Kingston Dan]

It's only two lanes in either direction for most of its length.

And used to be single carriage way all the way. It's not exactly congested even today.

 

[najaB]

And used to be single carriage way all the way. It's not exactly congested even today.

The only way that would work would be to downgrade it to A-road status and remove the central reservation. Otherwise you can easily end up in situations where long queues build up behind slow-moving vehicles, unable to overtake.

 

[JamesT]

And used to be single carriage way all the way. It's not exactly congested even today.

When was it ever single carriageway? It may be lacking a hard shoulder, but as far as I’m aware the M90 has always been dual carriageway.
It may not be the busiest road, but there’s enough HGVs on it that the ability to pass them is critical. Just look at the A9 for how it could be.
The railway has been gone for over 50 years, it will have to make the argument for a new route on its own merits, not just that there used to be one that was barely used in the past.

 

[HighlandStorm]

When was it ever single carriageway? It may be lacking a hard shoulder, but as far as I’m aware the M90 has always been dual carriageway.

Only during construction, but there were single carriageway sections under motorway restrictions. Nothing legally stoping a section being downgraded to WS2+1 carriageway to free up space for a railway reinstatement.

But this perhaps rather misses the point - if the HML is electrified journey times can be significantly improved without reinstating a Glenfarg route. Stirling is also a vastly better location to change for Edinburgh or Glasgow than at Perth, now all Inverness - Edinburgh services go this way.

 

[lachlan]

But this perhaps rather misses the point - if the HML is electrified journey times can be significantly improved without reinstating a Glenfarg route. Stirling is also a vastly better location to change for Edinburgh or Glasgow than at Perth, now all Inverness - Edinburgh services go this way.

Not a new line, but now that only stopping Perth-Edinburgh services run past Newburgh, this ought to improve the case for a new station.

 

[najaB]

Not a new line, but now that only stopping Perth-Edinburgh services run past Newburgh, this ought to improve the case for a new station.

There's a big push for this currently. The platform is apparently still intact so would just need refurbishing up to current standards.

 

[jeffinabox]

With Balgray in construction and Winchburgh just been given the thumbs up by the Scottish Government in today's budget, which is the most likely station to be next?

 

[Mgameing123]

Some of these are quite unrealistic.

It would be better to dual the A75 from Gretna to Stranraer.

Why Ullapool when there are towns like Tillicoultry, Clackmannan, Kinross, Crieff where the same £ spent would benefit vastly more people?

St Andrews and Fraserburgh I get.

Inverness to Fort William would be a sustainable key tourist route if electrified.

If you're going to build an HS line to Edinburgh and build a line to Carlisle through the borders. Maybe just build an HS line through the borders instead? With just two HS trains an hour, there'd be plenty of scope to run a "local" 125mph EMU behind each service.

Why should we build a dual carriageway when we can build a railway?

 

[roadierway77]

With Balgray in construction and Winchburgh just been given the thumbs up by the Scottish Government in today's budget, which is the most likely station to be next?

I'd say Halbeath and Newburgh are now the most likely candidates for new stations.

 

[najaB]

I'd say Halbeath and Newburgh are now the most likely candidates for new stations.

Outside candidate that's local to me: a re-opened Errol station forming the western terminus for an Errol - Arbroath service. This would make sense if proposed housing development around Errol goes ahead.

 

[Altnabreac]

With Balgray in construction and Winchburgh just been given the thumbs up by the Scottish Government in today's budget, which is the most likely station to be next?

Given both Balgray and Winchburgh have been delivered in association with large volumes of new house building I’d suggest that’s the key thing to look for.

Which to me makes Stirling South (Bannockburn / Cowie) the most likely next candidate to be delivered as the “South Stirling Gateway” major housing site is nearby.

 

[Falcon1200]

Why should we build a dual carriageway when we can build a railway?

(Presumably referring to the A75) Because the road is already there, and because even after spending billions to (effectively) build a new railway between Dumfries and Stranraer and/or Cairnryan the road would still carry by far the majority of the traffic.

 

[Severnia333]

With Balgray in construction and Winchburgh just been given the thumbs up by the Scottish Government in today's budget, which is the most likely station to be next?

Something in Suburban Edinburgh not near the tram? Portobello?

 

[waverley47]

Something in Suburban Edinburgh not near the tram? Portobello?

Portobello isn't going to happen, mainly because you can't really do much without triggering a massive rebuilding.

The ideal solution would be putting a station where the old one used to be, near the bridge above Brighton place. Any station here would need a massive and expensive rebuilding of the two miles of ECML from Craigentinny Jn through to Portobello Jn, the bridges over Baileyfield Rd, and the end of the Borders line through to about Brunstane station.

Now, that probably isn't a bad thing in and of itself, that section probably needs a wholesale rebuilding to eek out capacity on the ECML into Waverley anyway, as it's basically at capacity as is; trains get into Waverley in whatever order they present themselves at Portobello Jn. There's not really much in the way of space for regulation. The Borders line is limited by the single lead junction, and single track through to Shawfair. The ECML lacks any regulation opportunity as far out as Dun bavr really, and you're limited to 1tph to North Berwick during weekday daytimes already. Craigentinny depot is a very busy place, and the sidings at Millerhill haven't helped in this regard.

If only we had an ECML route controller on the forums to give their insights onto this issue...

If you built a two platform station, the capacity hit on the ECML would kill it instantly, so you'd have to build some degree of station not dissimilar from Norton Bridge or Beaulieu Park, with an 'offline' platform off the main ECML running lines to stop services.

You have 3tph of potential services, upping to 4tph in the medium term: 2tph to the Borders and 1tph/2tph North Berwick services you could stop. If you're only stopping the former, then you may as well relocate Brunstane towards the junction and slew the ECML over, but what's the point? You could build a four platform station after the junction, but then you'd be messing around with overlaps and either taking a decent chunk of land from the depot, or again, realigning the two miles from Craigentinny to Joppa just to fit a station 200m from Brunstane.

Portobello is cursed by being close enough to the city centre that it should be the problem of TfE to speed up services, but far enough out that buses are very slow, especially at peak times.

The solution would be to remodel Portobello Jn through to Shawfair in a wholesale attempt to speed up services and increase capacity. If you do that, you could dual Brunstane station, increase the connectivity with buses, and turn it into a little transport hub, but you'd still be sending the good people of Portobello twenty minutes walk in the wrong direction to pick up 2tph to Edinburgh. I expect most people would stick with the 26 bus, no matter how busy it gets.