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At least Britain has mostly resisted the American trend of naming every airport some long winded name after some politican from 50 years ago or some local celebrity. Train Stations in Spain also often named after some inspirational historical figure.
To be honest naming things after people or concepts (that aren't Queen Victoria or Elizabeth ) was a thing until recently was something only the NHS was fond of.
Specifically relating to the Suffragette naming - Suffragettes were a terrorist organisation, using violence and intimidation to impose their views.
...
To paraphrase slightly "One man's terrorist is another woman's freedom fighter".
When the state denies you the vote, arguably its laws and agents are illegitimate and its "law enforcement" is nothing more than a bunch of powerful thugs using force and violence, so opposing them with "extreme" tactics is morally defensible.
It's simply an extension of the argument that if you live in a dictatorship, where no-one can vote (or a state where only a particular race can vote), extreme tactics are legitimate.
Whether the "extreme tactics" were effective or not in this case is another matter.
Anyhow, I guess this veering too far off topic now.
Quite so. During COVID I had to collect some medication from the pharmacy at my local hospital. The nearest entrance had a notice saying only people with business in the Lanesborough Wing ciuld use that entrance, so in the pouring rain I traipsed round to the main entrance. Only to there be told that the pharmacy was in the Lanesborough Wing.
Im sure Dr (?) Lanesborough was a very worthy person, but to 99% of the people visiting the hospital the name has no clinical significance.
*Just to add to the confusion, the eye unit has its own quite separate pharmacy.
It's not just London. Kuala Lumpur, Los Angeles and Hong Kong have named lines too, to list just a few.
While I acknowledge that letters/numbers might be slightly easier for a tourist or non-English speaker, these systems get along just fine with their names.
It's not just London. Kuala Lumpur, Los Angeles and Hong Kong have named lines too, to list just a few.
While I acknowledge that letters/numbers might be slightly easier for a tourist or non-English speaker, these systems get along just fine with their names.
Not familiar with the LA metro, but for the Kuala Lumpur and Hong Kong metros, the line names are geographical, which would help navigation. They are not named after people or a historical event/movement like London.
Not familiar with the LA metro, but for the Kuala Lumpur and Hong Kong metros, the line names are geographical, which would help navigation. They are not named after people or a historical event/movement like London.
... and the majority of tourists make journeys within zone one, and with relatively few venturing onto overground lines that are largely orbital services through commercial and residential areas.
Not familiar with the LA metro, but for the Kuala Lumpur and Hong Kong metros, the line names are geographical, which would help navigation. They are not named after people or a historical event/movement like London.
How exactly is the Putrajaya line useful for navigation unless you are specifically going there? It's north-south through the whole city, it's no more useful for navigation than the Victoria line name is for getting to Kings Cross.
there's nothing to criticise really. In 5 years time, almost everybody* will be as familiar with the names as they are today with the Jubilee, Bakerloo and District lines
They won't be. The lines are peripheral and won't implant themselves into the public consciousness in the same way as the Tube lines do. The choice to give them Tube line naming conventions is as misguided as doing it for the Elizabeth Line.
Quite so. During COVID I had to collect some medication from the pharmacy at my local hospital. The nearest entrance had a notice saying only people with business in the Lanesborough Wing ciuld use that entrance, so in the pouring rain I traipsed round to the main entrance. Only to there be told that the pharmacy was in the Lanesborough Wing.
Im sure Dr (?) Lanesborough was a very worthy person, but to 99% of the people visiting the hospital the name has no clinical significance.
*Just to add to the confusion, the eye unit has its own quite separate pharmacy.
I really wish the NHS would hire the people at TfL who plan their in station wayfinding.
As someone who is an infrequent visitor to London and Hospitals, what TFL achive is much easier to follow and IME much less likely for you to get lost, where as NHS signage varies between poor and misleading, and is often incomplete.
If our hospitals were numbered it would be the like Stratford but with poor wayfinding and where Stratford High Street and International are considered part of the same site, but for some inexplicable reason the original DLR platforms at Stratford weren't (not helped by GPs sending you to (e.g.) the Auditory Clinic in the Mildmay ward, which turns out to have been renamed the Hearing Department a decade ago and moved to the Windrush ward 5 years ago)
great until you're colourblind (like me) which in turn is where my main issue is, the tube map is now harder to read with the multiple line colours - yes the line style is different but that isnt all that helpful with how my vision works as Mildmay/Elisabeth & Weaver all look the same to me... (lioness & tramlink too but they're miles apart on the map so it's bearable) all that effort to get the tube line colours decently differentiated and then this mess occurs. Lucky I know my way around.
great until you're colourblind (like me) which in turn is where my main issue is, the tube map is now harder to read with the multiple line colours - yes the line style is different but that isnt all that helpful with how my vision works as Mildmay/Elisabeth & Weaver all look the same to me... (lioness & tramlink too but they're miles apart on the map so it's bearable) all that effort to get the tube line colours decently differentiated and then this mess occurs. Lucky I know my way around. View attachment 186443
I'm sure there is some research out there concluding the maximum number of different colours and styles a transit map can handle before it starts becoming unhelpful. One solution that other transit systems have used to assist wayfinding is to print the line number or name prominently at the termini stations, which seeing as the TfL map is cluttered already, might actually help in this situation. In the case of systems with line numbers, letter appendixes are used to show short running or branches, rather like bus services.
In any case, the advent of journey planners where you can specify a start and end point and the program will find the route for you have decreased the reliance on needing to see the whole network laid out on a single map.
Noteworthy that the Wikipedia articles on these lines still colour them all orange on the schematic maps.
Just got off the Elizabeth Line and while I was on it I realised there were no status updates for any Overground line. Didn’t the status screen on the train used to show Overground disruption? Surprised to see it hasn’t been updated yet
Just got off the Elizabeth Line and while I was on it I realised there were no status updates for any Overground line. Didn’t the status screen on the train used to show Overground disruption? Surprised to see it hasn’t been updated yet
I'm not colourblind, but I have spotted a problem with the signage anyway over the past couple of decades from the new style's introduction is that the coloured bar that is often put across the top of the signs is as good as invisible: Northern, Piccadilly and Jubilee are particularly bad. The band disappears into the framework or background. Sometimes you wouldn't even know it was there. Waterloo and City and Victoria are almost as bad. Bakerloo is intermediate, but it's only really the Surface lines and the Central that show up, and that's chiefly because the colours are 'unnatural'. It would be interesting to get a colourblind person's perspective on this. I'd ask my c/b uncle but he's 96 and I doubt if he really cares.
great until you're colourblind (like me) which in turn is where my main issue is, the tube map is now harder to read with the multiple line colours - yes the line style is different but that isnt all that helpful with how my vision works as Mildmay/Elisabeth & Weaver all look the same to me... (lioness & tramlink too but they're miles apart on the map so it's bearable) all that effort to get the tube line colours decently differentiated and then this mess occurs. Lucky I know my way around. View attachment 186443
You may already know this, and if you know your way around maybe you don't need it! But there is a black-and-white version of the tube map for colour-blind customers, available on TfL's website at https://content.tfl.gov.uk/bw-large-print-tube-map.pdf. It has been updated with the new Overground line names.
I sincerely doubt it. It means Windrush will be in the minds of future generations (who travel in London at least). Many people won't care about the meaning and just see it as a name, while others will ask 'why is it called that?' and look it up to learn about history.
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Theirs been plenty of criticisms here that don't address the content of the names, and Elizabeth line was widely maligned here, it's lazy argumentation to imply the reason anyone disagrees is a racist or wants to stop women from voting
Almost everyone who has been against the naming has said something along the lines of 'woke' or 'virtue signalling' so I think it's quite clear what the agenda is.
On here we've had more grown up discussions about the names, with suggestions of other names or the use of line numbers or letters etc, and that's fine.
But let's not pretend that when you see people moan online, it's because of the names. These people are offended that we'd recognise certain people that they have no care for.
To me, they're just names that people will remember in time. It has helped people check the service status and made it easier for route planning, including people giving advice on how to travel somewhere over just using London Overground. That would be like telling someone to get from X to Y by taking the tube, but not saying which line(s). Sure, it can be done but this is more convenient in every way.
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* There will always be a few crusty individuals that insist on using some obscure name that they have known for decades, but that will be their problem when delays are reported correctly.
The enthusiasts who will refuse to acknowledge the line is anything but the 'Goblin' or whatever are clearly not the people that needed a better way to identify the lines. They know every line and station, and how to find information during disruption.
For a public transport network, we don't need to worry about the nerds amongst us that are on a higher plane.
I sincerely doubt it. It means Windrush will be in the minds of future generations (who travel in London at least). Many people won't care about the meaning and just see it as a name, while others will ask 'why is it called that?' and look it up to learn about history.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Almost everyone who has been against the naming has said something along the lines of 'woke' or 'virtue signalling' so I think it's quite clear what the agenda is.
On here we've had more grown up discussions about the names, with suggestions of other names or the use of line numbers or letters etc, and that's fine.
But let's not pretend that when you see people moan online, it's because of the names. These people are offended that we'd recognise certain people that they have no care for.
To me, they're just names that people will remember in time. It has helped people check the service status and made it easier for route planning, including people giving advice on how to travel somewhere over just using London Overground. That would be like telling someone to get from X to Y by taking the tube, but not saying which line(s). Sure, it can be done but this is more convenient in every way.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
The enthusiasts who will refuse to acknowledge the line is anything but the 'Goblin' or whatever are clearly not the people that needed a better way to identify the lines. They know every line and station, and how to find information during disruption.
For a public transport network, we don't need to worry about the nerds amongst us that are on a higher plane.
The Railway Magazine were incensed that the Baker Street & Waterloo Railway was being called the Bakerloo line - "an invention of the gutter press". Personally, I always found "Goblin" a bit contrived. The East London line, however, had very respectable historical antecedents.
The Railway Magazine were incensed that the Baker Street & Waterloo Railway was being called the Bakerloo line - "an invention of the gutter press". Personally, I always found "Goblin" a bit contrived. The East London line, however, had very respectable historical antecedents.
The good thing is that we are still free to call them whatever works for us.
In any industry, there will always be people that want to talk in a way that makes them appear like they're 'in the know'. That's fine, as long as they can also remember the official names and terminology used by 'normals'!
I have to admit that while I kept saying Crossrail for the Elizabeth Line, I generally now call it the Elizabeth Line because that's what 99% of the population calls it.
I have to admit that while I kept saying Crossrail for the Elizabeth Line, I generally now call it the Elizabeth Line because that's what 99% of the population calls it.
Since the day that Crossrail's name was to be Elizabeth, I've referred to it as the 'Lizzie'' which I thought Londoners would see as a sign of affection and familiarity. I see that it is often informally referred to as just that as a two syllable name clearly related to the official TfL four syllable name.
Prompted by a different thread I have just happened to look at the National Rail disruptions pages and am surprised that one of them https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service-disruptions/norwood-junction-20251022/ refers to Overgound, not the relevant line name.
I realise that the link won't be live for long but it seems worth quoting for while it remains.
Prompted by a different thread I have just happened to look at the National Rail disruptions pages and am surprised that one of them https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service-disruptions/norwood-junction-20251022/ refers to Overgound, not the relevant line name.
I realise that the link won't be live for long but it seems worth quoting for while it remains.
That makes sense because London Overground is still the operator. They never say "Mole Valley Line" when trains via Dorking are disrupted or "North Downs Line when trains via Dorking Deepdene" are disrupted or "Arun Valley Line" when trains via Horsham are disrupted etc. I would expect National Rail Enquiries to use the TOC name rather than line names. It also makes it clearer for passengers as lots of people still do not remember what new London Overground line names are for which lines.
That makes sense because London Overground is still the operator. They never say "Mole Valley Line" when trains via Dorking are disrupted or "North Downs Line when trains via Dorking Deepdene" are disrupted or "Arun Valley Line" when trains via Horsham are disrupted etc. I would expect National Rail Enquiries to use the TOC name rather than line names. It also makes it clearer for passengers as lots of people still do not remember what new London Overground line names are for which lines.
I agree. Further to this, Watford trains should not be announced at Euston as ‘Lioness line’, as it’s extremely confusing and if we do that then we need to call Holyhead trains ‘North Wales Coast line’ etc etc.
Prompted by a different thread I have just happened to look at the National Rail disruptions pages and am surprised that one of them https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service-disruptions/norwood-junction-20251022/ refers to Overgound, not the relevant line name.
I realise that the link won't be live for long but it seems worth quoting for while it remains.
That will probably never be updated. London Underground are extremely slow at updating things. When it comes to station announcements they are very incompetent. Even today they still have announcements referring to "London Regional Transport" at dozens of tube stations which are now over twenty years out of date.
London Underground are also taking forever to update the onboard announcements. Even the onboard announcements on all tube lines say to change for "London Overground" services still. The last i heard was that they were struggling to find funding for new London Underground recordings. Although i find it very hard to believe that they can not spend a couple hundred pounds on new recirdings when they spent millions on the London Overground line name rebrands.
Although i find it very hard to believe that they can not spend a couple hundred pounds on new recirdings when they spent millions on the London Overground line name rebrands.
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which in turn is where my main issue is, the tube map is now harder to read with the multiple line colours - yes the line style is different but that isnt all that helpful with how my vision works as Mildmay/Elisabeth & Weaver all look the same to me... (lioness & tramlink too but they're miles apart on the map so it's bearable) all that effort to get the tube line colours decently differentiated and then this mess occurs. Lucky I know my way around.
