New Overground line names progress?

[Silent]

I'm not blaming you, but I think it's quite sad that the Overground names are thought of as 'woke' (what does that even mean). They are names that represent the history of certain areas in London, the history of people in London. Because this history relates to marginalised communities they're described as 'woke', which I don't like. The existence and history of women, people of colour, and the LGBTQ+ community should not be any more 'political' than the history of anything, or anyone else.

Maybe the naming is also different from tube lines because it doesn’t go through central London so royal names are less relatable to the lines name association.

It’s kind of weird, now I think about it, that the social history of outer London areas and there association, with the overground names used, isn’t just seen as history but more as woke by some.

 

[duffield]

I'm not blaming you, but I think it's quite sad that the Overground names are thought of as 'woke' (what does that even mean). They are names that represent the history of certain areas in London, the history of people in London. Because this history relates to marginalised communities they're described as 'woke', which I don't like. The existence and history of women, people of colour, and the LGBTQ+ community should not be any more 'political' than the history of anything, or anyone else.

To take a specific example, if you consider the suffragist cause to be in the least bit "woke" you are effectively saying that giving women the vote was a mistake and they should probably have the vote taken away from them. Maybe that is part of the "anti-woke" agenda but I haven't yet seen any of the right-wing parties specifically adopting it as a policy. It might not be very popular.

 

[Mr. SW]

I don't think they are particularly Woke, I think they are just disrespectful to the subjects named.

"Windrush", for example, is just a bit to far. You can't a railway service after such a thing: It demeans the subject by association. "Windrush" is for Libraries, Study Centres and Monuments and for teaching in Schools. It is far too important socially and historically and in many cases still fresh in people's memories and emotions to be associated with a black and orange 5-car EMU trundling through South London at 25mph. It's just wrong.

Ah, well.

 

[styles]

I think we should rename them after scandals.

Windrush Line
Horizon Line
Infected Blood Line
Grenfell Line
Partygate Line
News Of The World Line

For an added reminder of corruption, you could even rename them every quarter, after each new scandal.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2025 ==

I don't think they are particularly Woke, I think they are just disrespectful to the subjects named. "Windrush", for example, is just a bit to far. You can't a railway service after such a thing: It demeans the subject by association. "Windrush" is for Libraries, Study Centres and Monuments and for teaching in Schools. It is far too important socially and historically and in many cases still fresh in people's memories and emotions to be associated with a black and orange 5-car EMU trundling through South London at 25mph. It's just wrong.

Ah, well.

Yes I think Windrush was odd really as it's an issue still affecting people, quite badly in some cases.

 

[Silent]

I don't think they are particularly Woke, I think they are just disrespectful to the subjects named. "Windrush", for example, is just a bit to far. You can't a railway service after such a thing: It demeans the subject by association. "Windrush" is for Libraries, Study Centres and Monuments and for teaching in Schools. It is far too important socially and historically and in many cases still fresh in people's memories and emotions to be associated with a black and orange 5-car EMU trundling through South London at 25mph. It's just wrong.

Ah, well.

I wonder if people who have parents and grandparents that were part of the windrush move are offended by the line name?

 

[Tetchytyke]

The name goes back to the building of the GWR/Metropolitan joint line from Westbourne Park to Hammersmith in 1864.

Yes, that's the inspiration for the name. But until the early 90s it was just a branch of the Metropolitan line and shown on Tube maps as such.

Image is the tube map from 1985, taken from the website themaphouse.com.

As for "woke", whatever that means, I think that is the real reason why certain types of people are so against the names. How dare they name a line after a women's football team or after a hospital which treated people with AIDS? It's meaningless, unlike the Jubilee Line which has loads of geographic meaning. Ironically many people seem grumpiest about the Liberty Line, yet that is actually named after the Royal Liberty of Havering.

 

[renegademaster]

Theirs been plenty of criticisms here that don't address the content of the names, and Elizabeth line was widely maligned here, it's lazy argumentation to imply the reason anyone disagrees is a racist or wants to stop women from voting

 

[AM9]

there's nothing to criticise really. In 5 years time, almost everybody* will be as familiar with the names as they are today with the Jubilee, Bakerloo and District lines, which is all Tfl want to achieve.

* There will always be a few crusty individuals that insist on using some obscure name that they have known for decades, but that will be their problem when delays are reported correctly.

 

[bramling]

Are the new names catching on with Londoners or are they considered meaningless?

My impression is most people tend to say “I’ll be taking the Overground to…”, just like they say “I’ll be taking the Tube to…”. So on that score I don’t think much has changed.

I think what most people would value more is for TFL to get their act together in terms of running the Underground properly. Lack of available trains on several lines, shortage of drivers pretty much across the board especially at weekends, and shortage of station staff. It’s rather more important being able to get in a station or having a train turn up when it’s supposed to, than what colour the line is on the map.

 

[Silent]

I’m on a 710/2 I noticed the TfL status screen still shows overground rather than the individual lines, yet showed Liberty lines status.

 

[barbette165]

Names are just that, names. The only slight criticism i have of the chosen names is that each should start with a different letter to help people whose first language isn’t English. So either Windrush or Weaver and Liberty or Lioness should have been avoided.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Names are just that, names. The only slight criticism i have of the chosen names is that each should start with a different letter to help people whose first language isn’t English. So either Windrush or Weaver and Liberty or Lioness should have been avoided.

Although at least neither of those pairs interchange with each other, although that obviously doesn't affect lines that intersect them both

 

[Wolfie]

Names are just that, names. The only slight criticism i have of the chosen names is that each should start with a different letter to help people whose first language isn’t English. So either Windrush or Weaver and Liberty or Lioness should have been avoided.

Ahem, Central and Circle...

 

[renegademaster]

Ahem, Central and Circle...

Yes, but those already well established, when you have a blank slate and claiming to do the renaming in the name of inclusivity you should actually think about accessibility and not just limiting your inclusivity to some (for some reason quite expensive) tokenism

 

[AM9]

Yes, but those already well established, when you have a blank slate and claiming to do the renaming in the name of inclusivity you should actually think about accessibility and not just limiting your inclusivity to some (for some reason quite expensive) tokenism

Well, the new names are a lot more inclusive than Overground, Overground, Overground, Overground, Overground and Overground.

 

[Wolfie]

Yes, but those already well established, when you have a blank slate and claiming to do the renaming in the name of inclusivity you should actually think about accessibility and not just limiting your inclusivity to some (for some reason quite expensive) tokenism

Applying your logic wider no starting letter associated with any TfL operated line should be applied. That would be rather limiting.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2025 ==

Well, the new names are a lot more inclusive than Overground, Overground, Overground, Overground, Overground and Overground.

Well indeed, lol

 

[styles]

Applying your logic wider no starting letter associated with any TfL operated line should be applied. That would be rather limiting.

There's a few letters left.. some suggestions

Gnome line
Knickerbocker Glory line
Wraprascals line
Xylophone line

 

[450.emu]

There's a few letters left.. some suggestions

Gnome line
Knickerbocker Glory line
Wraprascals line
Xylophone line

Frodo Line for the dangerous journey to Mordor... I mean Morden

 

[renegademaster]

Applying your logic wider no starting letter associated with any TfL operated line should be applied. That would be rather limiting.

Its an argument in favour of letters/numbers. A Line is much easier than listening to tourists attempt to say mildmay or windrush.

 

[vuzzeho]

Its an argument in favour of letters/numbers. A Line is much easier than listening to tourists attempt to say mildmay or windrush.

'Get the B line and change for the C line. Not the D line. No, not the E line either.'

 

[stuu]

Its an argument in favour of letters/numbers. A Line is much easier than listening to tourists attempt to say mildmay or windrush.

Lines in London have names. They just do.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Lines in London have names. They just do.

I think it's a British problem.

Once, I was talking to a nurse, new to the UK and to the hospital. She was complaining that the hospital wards here are all given names (e.g. Alexandra Ward, Cherry Ward, etc.). So it's very difficult to remember all the ward names and their corresponding locations, especially if you're new to the hospital.

In contrast, back home where the nurse was from, the hospital wards are given an obvious address as their names, e.g. Ward 5B-20, which might mean 5th floor, block B, room 20, so it's easy to find.

 

[renegademaster]

Lines in London have names. They just do.

*underground lines in London have names. Then crossrail got given a name because Boris needed another vanity project, now Overground has them because Khan needed one

 

[pokemonsuper9]

*underground lines in London have names. Then crossrail got given a name because Boris needed another vanity project, now Overground has them because Khan needed one

Crossrail got given a name because it's basically and underground line, and the Overground lines got given names because "Overground" referred to too much.
Also, the Elizabeth and Windrush lines are Underground lines in London (they both are beneath the tube at certain points).

 

[geoffk]

I think it's a British problem.

Once, I was talking to a nurse, new to the UK and to the hospital. She was complaining that the hospital wards here are all given names (e.g. Alexandra Ward, Cherry Ward, etc.). So it's very difficult to remember all the ward names and their corresponding locations, especially if you're new to the hospital.

In contrast, back home where the nurse was from, the hospital wards are given an obvious address as their names, e.g. Ward 5B-20, which might mean 5th floor, block B, room 20, so it's easy to find.

Schools have numbers in Russia, but that doesn't make them easier to find. Numbered wards in hospitals, however, would make sense.

 

[MCG]

To take a specific example, if you consider the suffragist cause to be in the least bit "woke" you are effectively saying that giving women the vote was a mistake and they should probably have the vote taken away from them. Maybe that is part of the "anti-woke" agenda but I haven't yet seen any of the right-wing parties specifically adopting it as a policy. It might not be very popular.

My general objection was that it was a waste of time and money, and the answer to a problem that didn't exist.

Specifically relating to the Suffragette naming - Suffragettes were a terrorist organisation, using violence and intimidation to impose their views.

Suffragists were law-abiding gradualists, relying on persuasion to achieve their ends.

It may be strongly argued that the -ettes delayed votes for women by their criminal acts - perhaps illustrated by the fact that their aims were achieved only after they had given up their campaign of violence at the beginning of WW1.

Discuss.

 

[Tetchytyke]

So it's very difficult to remember all the ward names and their corresponding locations, especially if you're new to the hospital.

In Washington New Town in the North East, instead of names for the individual suburbs they gave them numbers. Only the numbers were shown on road signs. Nobody could ever find where they were supposed to be going and thankfully in the early 2000s they abandoned that stupid idea and gave the districts names.

Elizabeth line was widely maligned here, it's lazy argumentation to imply the reason anyone disagrees is a racist or wants to stop women from voting

The vast majority of the whingeing about these names comes from people who complain that the names are too "woke", whatever that means, and not from people who don't think the lines should have been named at all. Certainly on social media it seems to mostly come from the sorts of people who have hilariously observed that the Mayor's surname sounds a bit like a swear word.

The Elizabeth Line was slightly different in that it already had a perfectly good name- Crossrail- that had been in use for several years during construction. It even had its own logo. There was a genuine cost to changing the name compared to sticking with the name it had had for years.

But a bit like the Jubilee Line, which was always going to be called the Fleet Line right up until it was named after the Queen, the name didn't take long to stick.

If they'd called the Overground the (Winston) Churchill Line and the (Horatio) Nelson Line the ones complaining wouldn't care (although other groups of people would almost certainly have complained instead).

My general objection was that it was a waste of time and money, and the answer to a problem that didn't exist.

The Overground being an amorphous blob of orange spaghetti was a problem that needed sorting, though. Sorting it out was a manifesto promise from the Mayor. Manifesto promises only get made by politicians when politician making them knows for certain that it is something that people care about. If nobody else is bothered, the politician is not bothered. Certainly not bothered enough to stick it in their manifesto.

The actual names don't matter, the cost would have been the same.

*underground lines in London have names.

The Waterloo and City Line had a name long before it was an Underground line.

 

[stuu]

My general objection was that it was a waste of time and money, and the answer to a problem that didn't exist.

So you would be ok if we renamed all the underground lines to "underground", or every street to "street"? Clearly no one sane would suggest that, because names as a means of wayfinding are absolutely standard across the world.

 

[N1]

Schools have numbers in Russia, but that doesn't make them easier to find. Numbered wards in hospitals, however, would make sense.

Although interestingly Moscow (and St Petersburg) have line numbers and line names, among others that also have this (Tokyo).

 

[norbitonflyer]

I think it's a British problem.

Once, I was talking to a nurse, new to the UK and to the hospital. She was complaining that the hospital wards here are all given names (e.g. Alexandra Ward, Cherry Ward, etc.). So it's very difficult to remember all the ward names and their corresponding locations, especially if you're new to the hospital.

Quite so. During COVID I had to collect some medication from the pharmacy at my local hospital. The nearest entrance had a notice saying only people with business in the Lanesborough Wing ciuld use that entrance, so in the pouring rain I traipsed round to the main entrance. Only to there be told that the pharmacy was in the Lanesborough Wing.
Im sure Dr (?) Lanesborough was a very worthy person, but to 99% of the people visiting the hospital the name has no clinical significance.
*Just to add to the confusion, the eye unit has its own quite separate pharmacy.