New Overground line names progress?

[Acton1991]

The Lioness line is orange not yellow!

You’re right! It looks like the Overground orange!

 

[J-2739]

Do we even need service update announcements at all? Now that essentially everyone has a smart phone, is this not a better way of disseminating information, especially as station and train announcements are only as accurate as the member of staff broadcasting them, which in turn depends on a range of factors.

It’s rather convenient that it’s possible for service update announcements to be linked to a measuring routine, which in turn can be led to someone’s bonus. Very easy to have loads of PAs going out, as is nowadays the case on TFL, rather harder to actually deliver useful information.

Why would I want to fiddle around with a phone, when I could just passively listen to an audible service update?

 

[croydontangle]

It's high time to admit that line names are completely archaic as a concept, mean essentially nothing, and do away with all of them. They are just noises used to refer to the routes and hold no meaning to the majority of people. Rename the Underground lines U1-U11 and combine Thameslink, XR and Overground into S1-S8. DLR lines can be D1-D3(?) and there aren't enough tram routes to justify numbering them.

Failing that, any names for the Overground lines are objectively useful and they (or some more linguistically satisfying modification) will become part of common usage as quickly as Elizabeth line did. Objections on the basis of "it costs too much" or "the new names aren't the current names/don't make much sense/don't jive with my personal views/looked at me funny" can be countered with "no it didn't" and "who really cares".

 

[stuu]

The only thing that will be updated regularly on this vanity project will be the cost. > > > > It will increase.

Why would it be anything more than a one-off cost?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Nov 2024 ==

It's high time to admit that line names are completely archaic as a concept, mean essentially nothing, and do away with all of them. They are just noises used to refer to the routes and hold no meaning to the majority of people. Rename the Underground lines U1-U11 and combine Thameslink, XR and Overground into S1-S8. DLR lines can be D1-D3(?) and there aren't enough tram routes to justify numbering them.

No it wouldn't. Names are far, far easier to remember than numbers. The meaning doesn't matter

 

[croydontangle]

No it wouldn't. Names are far, far easier to remember than numbers. The meaning doesn't matter

I mean, which is easier to remember is personal preference so TfL could never get that right. I was fine with the German-style system when I was in Berlin but everyone's brain is different. I agree that the meaning doesn't matter (in fact that was the second bit of my post) but here and elsewhere there has been a lot of complaining on that front

 

[CastlebarKeith]

How do you make that out given that it's CapEx (capital expenditure), not OpEx (operating expenditure)?

BECAUSE history repeats itself
And when it does, the cost always goes up.

 

[greatkingrat]

In the key to Lines, Mildmay is missing the word ‘line’

Not sure "line" needs to be included for any of them. None of the Underground lines have "line" at the end.

 

[daveid]

Giving the lines individual names makes complete sense so that's good. The names chosen though are pretty awful and don't help from a geographical point of view. If only BoJo had gone along with TfL's plan in 2015 then the lines would have had the sensible names we wanted not this nonsense.

 

[stuu]

I mean, which is easier to remember is personal preference

No, it literally isn't. There's all sorts of proper research over the years showing that

 

[bicbasher]

I do feel Liz Line is far more akin to Thameslink in its service pattern & utility than the Overground lines.

It depends on which section of the Overground. The core section of the Windrush/ELL is as frequent as central London tube services. New Cross Gate to Sydenham has the same frequency as the Met line's Uxbridge branch (excluding the 2tph Southern services to London Bridge and Victoria). I think the Mildmay is every 7-8 minutes between Willesden Junction and Stratford as well as it splits into 15 mins on the Richmond/Clapham Junction branches.

 

[Wolfie]

It depends on which section of the Overground. The core section of the Windrush/ELL is as frequent as central London tube services. New Cross Gate to Sydenham has the same frequency as the Met line's Uxbridge branch (excluding the 2tph Southern services to London Bridge and Victoria). I think the Mildmay is every 7-8 minutes between Willesden Junction and Stratford as well as it splits into 15 mins on the Richmond/Clapham Junction branches.

You are spot on. Both Windrush and Mildmay lines operate through Canonbury, my local station, at 7-8 min frequency for most of the day most days.

 

[vuzzeho]

Couple updates from me out and about today:
The carriage displays now show where the trains are calling at. I'm pretty sure that's new, right? Didn't see it before the renamings.
At Surrey Quays, there's fun Overground bunting celebrating the new names! I love that. (pic from my snapchat lol)
Saw a Windrush line timetable at New Cross, but that's about it there.

 

[bicbasher]

I wasn't close enough, but I think the Windrush line timetable posters have gone up at Forest Hill today.

My guess is that those units modified with the new line PIS also get the stations displayed on the LEDs now.

 

[Meerkat]

Not sure "line" needs to be included for any of them. None of the Underground lines have "line" at the end.

I’m assuming it’s because of the poor choice of names and them being new. They need ‘line’ to show that that is what they are referring to.

 

[Wolfie]

I’m assuming it’s because of the poor choice of names and them being new. They need ‘line’ to show that that is what they are referring to.

I guess that the precedent was set by the Elizabeth line. I may be wrong but l seem to recall that the old East London line always had the word line including (that is dragging my mind back 20ish years though).

 

[Jimini]

I guess that the precedent was set by the Elizabeth line. I may be wrong but l seem to recall that the old East London line always had the word line including (that is dragging my mind back 20ish years though).

Ex. Wapping resident here from 2002-2004. Only ever said "East London" on tube maps.

 

[Wolfie]

Ex. Wapping resident here from 2002-2004. Only ever said "East London" on tube maps.

Ok, TY. I was in London since 86.

 

[jon0844]

If the names are irrelevant they could have just been given numbers, O1, O2 etc instead of the political virtue signalling that has emerged

They're just names. They won't hurt you. Try not to be so offended and outraged by everything and life will be much easier.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2024 ==

Plenty of people opposed and still oppose the Elizabeth line naming, if that name isn't immune from criticism i don't understand why these should be. Surely politically motivated namings shouldn't be something that happens in either direction. I don't want some tit for tat stuff with a future Tory mayor inventing the "Enterprise line" and "Individual responsibility line"

I wasn't a fan, but it's a name. I joked that I'd always keep calling it Crossrail and I'm sure there are some militant enthusiasts that not only refuse to call it anything else but love to step in and point out that they'd never accept it being called the Elizabeth Line.

I have no issue referring to it by its given name, rather than trying to look clever (but no doubt looking silly and nerdy) by saying Crossrail.

People will get used to the LO names in due course and think nothing more of it. Maybe one day the complainers will get their Farage line, EDL line, or Brexit line, but not today.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2024 ==

In the key to Lines, Mildmay is missing the word ‘line’

That's another video for Geoff Marshall right there...

 

[Wolfie]

In the key to Lines, Mildmay is missing the word ‘line’

Frankly if that's the worst thing people have to complain about...

 

[jon0844]

It's high time to admit that line names are completely archaic as a concept, mean essentially nothing, and do away with all of them. They are just noises used to refer to the routes and hold no meaning to the majority of people. Rename the Underground lines U1-U11 and combine Thameslink, XR and Overground into S1-S8. DLR lines can be D1-D3(?) and there aren't enough tram routes to justify numbering them.

Failing that, any names for the Overground lines are objectively useful and they (or some more linguistically satisfying modification) will become part of common usage as quickly as Elizabeth line did. Objections on the basis of "it costs too much" or "the new names aren't the current names/don't make much sense/don't jive with my personal views/looked at me funny" can be countered with "no it didn't" and "who really cares".

The funniest thing is that the people who are moaning about the new names and the cost of printing new signs because they're 'woke' or 'virtue signalling' would almost certainly be more than happy to rename every single line in London whatever the cost, the logistics required to do it, the confusion to existing Londoners and all visitors (including tourists).

Anything so as not to have to accept the real reason for not liking the new names is because they represent things they don't care about, or actively feel threatened by because they're presumably weak little babies that haven't grown up yet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2024 ==

Frankly if that's the worst thing people have to complain about...

Maybe bag a load of them to sell for a huge profit one day. Maybe this will be like that stamp with the plane upside down....!

 

[BeijingDave]

Why would it be anything more than a one-off cost?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Nov 2024 ==


No it wouldn't. Names are far, far easier to remember than numbers. The meaning doesn't matter

Names may be easier to remember for native speakers, but they aren't for tourists and London is a tourist city.

Numbers are probably in the first week of classes anyone does in a foreign language, or Unit 1 of Duolingo/whichever app.

To give an example, as an Englishman who drives in Beijing, I find it far easier to remember the numbers of the major highways running out of Beijing than their names. Many locals, including taxi drivers, will prefer to use their names which are often based on archaic names for the places they connect:
S12 'Jichang' Gaosu (Expressway)
S11 'Jingcheng'
S15 'Jingjin'
S26 'Changgu' and so on...

Of course, you may not want to get rid of names like 'Bakerloo' and 'Jubilee' because it would discard an important tradition, and I wouldn't disagree with you on that point. But numbers make the city more navigable for tourists, especially if they have to ask directions.

 

[norbitonflyer]

BECAUSE history repeats itself
And when it does, the cost always goes up.

How, in this instance, will history repeat itself? The lines have now been named. It is highly unlikely any of them will ever be renamed - the last time a Tube Line was renamed was when the Morden-Edgware LIne became the Northern Line, 84 years ago.

If the other suburban routes in London ever come undcer TfL control they will be added to the map and presumably get their own names, but that will be a similar process to the addition of the Anglia lines to the Overground a few years ago. (And necessary to indicate that they will have, finally, become fully integrated with TfL's fares system)

 

[Dstock7080]

How, in this instance, will history repeat itself? The lines have now been named. It is highly unlikely any of them will ever be renamed - the last time a Tube Line was renamed was when the Morden-Edgware LIne became the Northern Line, 84 years ago.

The Hammersmith & City rebranded/separation of 1990 was probably the most recent major change, previously being the Metropolitan Line on maps and stations, with the East London Line going orange a minor event

 

[LLivery]

The carriage displays now show where the trains are calling at. I'm pretty sure that's new, right? Didn't see it before the renamings.

Finally, sense prevails! At stations like Whitechapel you can't see the CIS from more than a couple meters basically. Totally useless from the Elizabeth line end.

If the other suburban routes in London ever come undcer TfL control they will be added to the map and presumably get their own names, but that will be a similar process to the addition of the Anglia lines to the Overground a few years ago. (And necessary to indicate that they will have, finally, become fully integrated with TfL's fares system)

Anything other than 'Hayes line', 'Bexleyheath line', 'Shepperton line' etc., like in Melbourne, or German/Dutch, etc. style route codes (or even SR style Headcodes) in such a scenario would be horribly complicated.

 

[Snow1964]

The Hammersmith & City rebranded/separation of 1990 was probably the most recent major change, previously being the Metropolitan Line on maps and stations, with the East London Line going orange a minor event

And seeing as virtually nothing on the line terminates in the City (of London) anymore, probably should have had shorter or new name.

Always been messy on in car maps on other lines as the name doesn't fit the standard coloured rectangle used at interchange stations, so needs non standard size coloured block

 

[GoneSouth]

Bet that you loved the Elizabeth line name though....

Just expressing a personal opinion, which I realise isn’t that popular these days unless it conforms to the leftist woke agenda. Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t make me wrong and you can’t make assumptions about what I do and don’t like.

Railways in London have names. The fact you don't like them is neither here nor there. Some people wouldn't have liked whatever was chosen. So deal with it

A little rude if you don’t mind me saying. I was expressing a personal opinion, it’s not a question of dealing with it or not. I don’t like the names, in the same way I didn’t like a pacer, it’s Just an opinion.

This relates to both of you. I was commenting about a railway decision and implementation of it, whereas both of you were attacking me for my opinion. This is happening too often in the UK today. We seem to want to remove free speech because our views don’t conform to what are loud voices as shouting.

Long live democracy (and the Elizabeth Line)… but sadly probably not in the uk.

 

[Goldfish62]

BECAUSE history repeats itself
And when it does, the cost always goes up.

Eh?!

 

[AM9]

... unless it conforms to the leftist woke agenda.

Are you serious, this is a discussion about names of metro line names, - no need to bang your anti London drum.

 

[renegademaster]

Anything other than 'Hayes line', 'Bexleyheath line', 'Shepperton line' etc.,

Theirs going to be so many named lines if everything local in London gets moved into overground. Which is why I believe if there has to be names , they'll have to be some kind of actual geographical relation for each name, even if something silly like "Surrey Quays line" , not just a bunch of dedications to various special interest groups that don't have any exclusive relation to the line. Yes I'm aware the Jubilee line and Elizabeth are examples too, but only one was named at a time making publicity easier rather than whole spate of them at once

 

[stuu]

This relates to both of you. I was commenting about a railway decision and implementation of it, whereas both of you were attacking me for my opinion. This is happening too often in the UK today. We seem to want to remove free speech because our views don’t conform to what are loud voices as shouting.

Long live democracy (and the Elizabeth Line)… but sadly probably not in the uk.

Railways in London having names is a fact, not an opinion. Whatever was chosen would have annoyed someone, that is also a fact. I also at no point have said I liked the names either, but a sensible process was gone through to choose them and that's fine. I don't like some of them at all either

No one has said you can't have an opinion. The simple fact you are able to write whatever you want on an open forum shows that. Just as I and others have every right and opportunity to rigourously argue against your points. So no need for histrionics