New Overground line names progress?

[Wolfie]

But it hasn't, the information is really poor because of the number of different lines. That is the point.

Hearing a message on the tube saying "severe delays on the Overground" is almost entirely pointless. It's like a road traffic report saying delays on the motorway. Individual names are much, much more useful for everyone

It's no surprise that people who regularly moan about Khan and TfL seem to not understand this point

Similarly with engineering work etc.

 

[bramling]

I gave up long ago trying to point all this out. If people haven't got it by now they never will.

But you don’t hear “Delays on the Overground”. What you *actually* hear is “Delays on the Overground between X and Y”.

This is no different to hearing about delays on, for example, the Metropolitan Line, when it might just be one small part like Watford that’s actually affected.

So the line name isn’t that useful nor important. In fact, one of the most regular complaints on LU is that delay information isn’t relevant to the actual experience people have.

 

[Goldfish62]

But you don’t hear “Delays on the Overground”.

Yes you do.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Kingston. Though I doubt the people of Sutton feel particularly well served by two tram stops in an industrial estate!

Not only that, but it is, I think, the only borough served by just one TOC

 

[Goldfish62]

This is no different to hearing about delays on, for example, the Metropolitan Line, when it might just be one small part like Watford that’s actually affected.

Delays on one part of a line most of the time have a knock-on impact on the rest of the line.

 

[duffield]

But you don’t hear “Delays on the Overground”. What you *actually* hear is “Delays on the Overground between X and Y”.

This is no different to hearing about delays on, for example, the Metropolitan Line, when it might just be one small part like Watford that’s actually affected.

Actually, you *do* hear "Delays on the Overground".

Despite living in the east midlands, I get the London local news on the BBC news channel, and the delays dashboard provided for TfL (which is presumably based on information provided by TfL) has all the tube lines listed individually, but the entire overground lumped together; and the commentary by the newsreader seems to reflect this.

I'm pretty sure this will change to the individual named lines in the same way as the tube, and so become more informative.

Edit: The BBC status board seems to reflect the TfL status board here which has the Overground lumped together. I would expect this to change, although everything may be delayed due to the TfL cyber attack a few weeks ago which I believe they are still recovering from.

I can see the current status board allows you to drill down for more details when there is an issue, but having the lines split out at the top level should avoid having to do this pointlessly when "your line" is not affected.

 

[bramling]

Delays on one part of a line most of the time have a knock-on impact on the rest of the line.

Not always. As I say, it’s a very common complaint on LU that the service status often doesn’t reflect that the passenger at a given location actually experiences.

 

[sprunt]

But you don’t hear “Delays on the Overground”. What you *actually* hear is “Delays on the Overground between X and Y”.

Which is not much more use, since if you're at A trying to get to B you may very well have no idea if X and Y are on the route you're travelling.

 

[stuu]

But you don’t hear “Delays on the Overground”. What you *actually* hear is “Delays on the Overground between X and Y”.

Either you never use the tube, always use headphones, or are being economical with the truth, because you do. All the time

 

[43066]

Which one out of curiosity?

Kingston. Though I doubt the people of Sutton feel particularly well served by two tram stops in an industrial estate!

Not sure tram would count as its focussed around Croydon rather than journeys further into out/of London and isn’t “heavy rail”.

Bromley is another one with no tube at all, and only served by TfL heavy rail at Penge West/Anerley/Crystal palace, all at one extreme end of the borough, and close to the boundary.

Apologies, slightly off topic!

 

[Goldfish62]

Not always. As I say, it’s a very common complaint on LU that the service status often doesn’t reflect that the passenger at a given location actually experiences.

But neither is that an argument for abolishing Underground line names, which presumably those against the introduction of line names on the Overground would welcome.

It is beyond my comprehension why anyone would think that introduction of individual line names on the Overground is not a sensible idea. Yes, it should have been done much earlier, but at least it's being done now.

I still think people are allowing their personal dislike of Khan to cloud their judgement. Khan, who incidentally won in May with a total vote just shy of the total votes for the Tories, LidDems and Greens added together.

 

[Tester]

But you don’t hear “Delays on the Overground”. What you *actually* hear is “Delays on the Overground between X and Y”.

This is not correct.

What I *actually* hear is 'London Overground has severe delays' or 'London Overground is part suspended'.

Which I'm sure you would agree is about as useful as a cat flap in a submarine.

 

[Wolfie]

This is not correct.

What I *actually* hear is 'London Overground has severe delays' or 'London Overground is part suspended'.

Which I'm sure you would agree is about as useful as a cat flap in a submarine.

I use the TfL system every day, particularly the Overground, and that is exactly what you hear, particularly on trains.

 

[Meerkat]

You mean like the Elizabeth line???

Yes. And it’s too long, and doesn’t describe where it goes at all.

TLDR: The whole situation around the names is franky insane and anyone spending their time on a forum crying about it needs to touch grass

And yet you wrote a long post decrying those who criticise it…..
They are bad choices, with Mildmay just proving that the bad choices were made to shoehorn a political angle in. If they had used good names that also had a political angle it would produce far less comment.

 

[43066]

They are bad choices, with Mildmay just proving that the bad choices were made to shoehorn a political angle in. If they had used good names that also had a political angle it would produce far less comment.

I agree the names chosen are very poor, “Lioness” in particular. They are indeed nakedly political, depart from previous naming conventions, and have tenuous-to-
no relevance to the areas they serve. That is my objection to them, rather than to the principle of naming the lines per se, which I can sort of see has a benefit given how complex the LO network has become.

 

[Mikey C]

I agree the names chosen are very poor, “Lioness” in particular. They are indeed nakedly political, depart from previous naming conventions, and have tenuous-to-
no relevance to the areas they serve. That is my objection to them, rather than to the principle of naming the lines per se, which I can sort of see has a benefit given how complex the LO network has become.

When you have to give a press release to explain to Londoners what most of the new names mean, and why they're relevant to that line, then perhaps you've deliberately picked rather obscure and random names.

Especially when many of the lines have unofficial names, e.g. Goblin, or run through infrastructure designed by iconic names, e.g. the East London line running through the Brunel tunnel.

 

[vuzzeho]

When you have to give a press release to explain to Londoners what most of the new names mean, and why they're relevant to that line, then perhaps you've deliberately picked rather obscure and random names.

Especially when many of the lines have unofficial names, e.g. Goblin, or run through infrastructure designed by iconic names, e.g. the East London line running through the Brunel tunnel.

To be fair, I don't think most regular people understand what Bakerloo means. Every time I've told someone it's followed with 'ohhhh that makes sense!'. Additionally, I don't think people really care what the meaning behind the names are. Also, some of the unofficial names aren't great (can we stop pretending Goblin is a good name for a line? It's so unserious.). Whatever, this conversation has been done to death.

 

[BankQuayLowLvl]

Not sure tram would count as its focussed around Croydon rather than journeys further into out/of London and isn’t “heavy rail”.

Bromley is another one with no tube at all, and only served by TfL heavy rail at Penge West/Anerley/Crystal palace, all at one extreme end of the borough, and close to the boundary.

Apologies, slightly off topic!

Well, the question was which one borough is not served by any form of TfL rail service - trams and Overground are certainly run by TfL and on rails. The question of whether they provide a comprehensive service for the majority of residents to use is entirely separate!

 

[Recessio]

When you have to give a press release to explain to Londoners what most of the new names mean, and why they're relevant to that line, then perhaps you've deliberately picked rather obscure and random names.

Especially when many of the lines have unofficial names, e.g. Goblin, or run through infrastructure designed by iconic names, e.g. the East London line running through the Brunel tunnel.

To be fair to them, they did say they were choosing names to show under-represented groups and concepts, so by definition yes they have deliberately picked rather obscure and random names!

I do agree that they aren't necessarily the names I would have chosen, given the historical line names. But personally I also wouldn't have chosen half the names currently used on Underground lines either, or some of the TOC names. It is what it is.

Anyway, isn't this thread more meant to be about the implementation/launch of the new line names, rather than rehashing the debate on the names which has been done to death? If the launches are currently suspended due to the cyber attack ramifications, then there doesn't appear to be much point in keeping this thread open until we get an update from LO/TfL.

 

[jon0844]

To be fair, I don't think most regular people understand what Bakerloo means. Every time I've told someone it's followed with 'ohhhh that makes sense!'. Additionally, I don't think people really care what the meaning behind the names are. Also, some of the unofficial names aren't great (can we stop pretending Goblin is a good name for a line? It's so unserious.). Whatever, this conversation has been done to death.

They're just names. In a few years, everyone will know what's what and nobody will care anymore (well, some will, but it won't matter). Remember the fuss over the Elizabeth Line? Some people being so militant that they'll refuse to call it anything but Crossrail?

Well, I think most people have now accepted Elizabeth Line and are actually daring to use that name instead of saying Crossrail and finding as time goes on that people will say 'What's that?'.

In the case of London Overground - that name remains. They're still all LO lines. They just have a way for people to identify which line. If you don't care for names, you could just call them London Overground and be fine.

 

[Lockwood]

In the case of London Overground - that name remains. They're still all LO lines. They just have a way for people to identify which line. If you don't care for names, you could just call them London Overground and be fine.

That's a fair point. People seem to be able to understand "I took the Underground from Morden to Russell Square" and "I took the Northern Line from Morden to Leicester Square, then took the Piccadilly to Russell Square" interchangeably.
I'm sure there'll be similar with the Overground routes.

 

[Sunil_P]

Are the station platform roundels still going to be orange?

Or will I have to re-photograph them?

User:Sunil060902 - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

 

[OVERGROUND6]

Are the station platform roundels still going to be orange?

Or will I have to re-photograph them?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:sunil060902#Pics_of_every_station_in_London!

Yes they will.

London Overground is still the "umbrella" brand for the six lines, and the roundel will still remain.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Not sure tram would count as its focussed around Croydon rather than journeys further into out/of London and isn’t “heavy rail”.

Bromley is another one with no tube at all, and only served by TfL heavy rail at Penge West/Anerley/Crystal palace, all at one extreme end of the borough, and close to the boundary.

Apologies, slightly off topic!

Bromley also has trams. Kingston only has buses and SWR

 

[43066]

Well, the question was which one borough is not served by any form of TfL rail service - trams and Overground are certainly run by TfL and on rails. The question of whether they provide a comprehensive service for the majority of residents to use is entirely separate!

I realise trams run on rails, but the Croydon Tramlink (as it was known for years) isn’t particularly relevant in the context of a thread discussing London wide TfL heavy rail services, and the original comment that their coverage is much smaller in some outer boroughs.

Bromley also has trams. Kingston only has buses and SWR

Trams are relevant in Bromley if you want to go to Croydon, basically. Or fancy a trip to New Addington .

It’s a useful and well used network, of course, but to call it “London Trams” is an example of branding so utterly ludicrous that it makes the new LO names look sensible.

 

[Sunil_P]

I realise trams run on rails, but the Croydon Tramlink (as it was known for years) isn’t particularly relevant in the context of a thread discussing London wide TfL heavy rail services, and the original comment that their coverage is much smaller in some outer boroughs.

He said "TfL rail service". Tramlink runs on rails, and is part of TfL!

 

[43066]

He said "TfL rail service". Tramlink runs on rails, and is part of TfL!

I know it does/is. As a longstanding resident of Bromley I also know that Croydon London Tramlink is about as relevant as the TfL cable car when discussing TfL run heavy rail services, or lack thereof, in the borough.

I’ll leave this particular thread of the conversation there.

 

[TrenHotel]

There are signs up at stations warning of engineering work on the Windrush line this Sunday and the Mildmay line next week, so the new names are being phased in.

 

[jon0844]

Yes they will.

London Overground is still the "umbrella" brand for the six lines, and the roundel will still remain.

It means people can still use Goblin etc if they so prefer, just as many will keep saying Crossrail until the end of time.

 

[JaJaWa]

Interesting that they kept the Tram logo for the Tramlink. I would have expected "London Trams" on a green rectangular background, like the top left of this pic:

https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/images/tram-service-map.jpg

They appear to have (presumable unintentionally) reverted to an older version of the Design Standards, which used this symbol. I noticed this issue with the Northern line extension (to Battersea Power Station) signage too.