New Overground line names progress?

[Wolfie]

The whole naming lines is a nonsense, it would have been far easier, cleaner and simpler to use Line 1, Line 2 etc. Easier to remember, easier to give tourists directions, no issues with mispronunciation, would clearly separate over ground routes from under ground routes, and so on...

TfL standard practice. People who live in London, who after all are far and away the biggest users, are absolutely used to this.

Frankly what underlies most of the complaints is discontent at the names chosen due to political bias. Londoners, of who l am one, gave the Mayor a new mandate so frankly those from elsewhere can suck it up and butt out. We don't care about rants about our mayor.

@Tetchytyke is absolutely right that use of s-bahn style numbering would have cost exactly the same.

 

[duffield]

The whole naming lines is a nonsense, it would have been far easier, cleaner and simpler to use Line 1, Line 2 etc. Easier to remember, easier to give tourists directions, no issues with mispronunciation, would clearly separate over ground routes from under ground routes, and so on...

It's really a matter of personal opinion, not fact, as to whether it's easier to remember line numbers or names.

Personally, I'm sure I'll find names easier to remember in this context, even though I'm generally a maths and numbers type person.

 

[Lockwood]

If we did go with O1-O6, does this mean we could have had an announcement for the "oh six oh six O6 service"?

 

[LUYMun]

Saw this on Twitter recently by the diamond geezer. Upper Holloway has a new sign with yet-to-be-unwrapped vinyl for the GOBLIN Suffragette line, which has a laughable misspelling...

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diamond geezer
@diamondgeezer
This sign at Upper Holloway is somewhat embarrassing

 

[Wolfie]

Saw this on Twitter recently by the diamond geezer. Upper Holloway has a new sign with yet-to-be-unwrapped vinyl for the GOBLIN Suffragette line, which has a laughable misspelling...

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Hopefully only on the vinyl lol

 

[Malaxa]

Saw this on Twitter recently by the diamond geezer. Upper Holloway has a new sign with yet-to-be-unwrapped vinyl for the GOBLIN Suffragette line, which has a laughable misspelling...

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Wait until they have to spell Suffragette...

 

[Meerkat]

Frankly what underlies most of the complaints is discontent at the names chosen due to political bias.

That would be understandable as they have clearly been chosen in line with a political agenda….
But that’s not the practical issue, which is that only one is a sensible choice in length, pronunciation, and applicability for memory terms.

 

[sprunt]

The whole naming lines is a nonsense, it would have been far easier, cleaner and simpler to use Line 1, Line 2 etc. Easier to remember, easier to give tourists directions, no issues with mispronunciation,

Does the underground having line names rather than numbers cause any of these problems?

would clearly separate over ground routes from under ground routes

To what end? What does it matter, if you know the name of the line and can follow the signs to it whether it's overground or underground?

 

[Wolfie]

That would be understandable as they have clearly been chosen in line with a political agenda….
But that’s not the practical issue, which is that only one is a sensible choice in length, pronunciation, and applicability for memory terms.

You mean like the Elizabeth line???

 

[Horizon22]

Does the underground having line names rather than numbers cause any of these problems?



To what end? What does it matter, if you know the name of the line and can follow the signs to it whether it's overground or underground?

It is unique because Overground is now going to be an "umbrella" brand and there isn't really an equivalent for TfL (unless you want to count the Tube/Underground as an umbrella brand for the indiviudal lines, which I don't really). It was never going to be perfectly neat and have full agreement. Compromises had to be made.

On balance it's better than just lumping in "Overground" for routes on totally different sides of London

 

[renegademaster]

You mean like the Elizabeth line???

That naming that was heavily criticised here and where some people still insist on calling it crossrail?

 

[duffield]

Thinking further about it, using line numbers would actually be a *terrible* idea given you'd be mixing them in with platform numbers and departure times, particularly at interchange stations with different numbered lines. "Platform 5 for the 0745 line 6 service to x, Platform 7 for the 0654 line 5 service to y "? Too many numbers mixed in meaning different things.

Using plain letters would also be bad because they can be too short to be distinct in announcements. You'd probably want to do something like use the NATO/Police type alphabet, so lines A, B, C would be announced as Alpha, Bravo, Charlie. Or I suppose it might work reversed, call them the the A-line, B-line, C-line etc. (don't they do that in the US sometimes?)

But then you might as well have memorable names; however to add to my previous remarks on this, I think ideally they should all be either two or three *flowing* syllables with both an obvious pronunciation and spelling, and scan well with or without "line". So "Weaver" and "Liberty" work well, the others not so much. I dislike "Elizabeth" for those same reasons, too many syllables (and "Liz" is too few!).

 

[vuzzeho]

too many syllables (and "Liz" is too few!)

How about Lizzie

 

[duffield]

How about Lizzie

Of course - obvious once you point it out - why didn't I think of that?

 

[Wolfie]

That naming that was heavily criticised here and where some people still insist on calling it crossrail?

I was talking about the politics involved. I know that it was criticised on here. However in the real world guess what people call it?

 

[Acton1991]

Windrush signage is up and visible at Shoreditch High Street

 

[staines west]

Womens' sport is necessary because of physical differences between men and women which would limit the ability of women to compete in sport were it not a thing.



Anyone annoyed by this needs to take a serious look at themselves in my view. After all, the Lionesses have brought football home, as it were, and the Lions have failed to do so for years!

i fully agree with you. although these types don't think it counts because women's sport "isnt the real game" in their eyes. they're the same people who complain about people being offended and then get in a hissy fit when some bloody train lines get renamed to make the already complicated system simpler by saying exactly which line you're on (yes i know the map is crowded but that's a whole different issue that gets solved with doing away with the current map and making a booklet with all the different modes as separate maps listing connections and OSIs). solely because the names promote the history and accomplishments of women and immigrants, which is undoubtedly a positive thing however if its not an old straight white man that longs for the days of segregated water fountains then they find it offensive and make it political. unfortunatly that's the sorry state of the average UK train fan. obsessed with tradition and and fighting against anything that changes how thing were "back in my day". case and point. people are still annoyed about london bridge being rebuilt to make it more accessible (yes i'm aware it wasn't the only reason just choosig one because i have seen and spoken to people who used airquotes around the word "accessibility" when talking about the rebuild) because a train station being just how it was 60 yrs ago is more important to them than the idea of a disabled person doing anything. my point is you'll never reason with them. if the line had been named some random whatever that had nothing to do with the unofficial names or historical events/groups, i guarantee the most that would have been said was "they're a bit random, but i imagine they'll catch on in time". why get annoyed you can still call the lines what you want nobody cares, because get this, its just a train line name, nothing else, its not spraypained on the trains or written in fireworks every night. if football came home in the summer these gits would've likely campaigned for it to be renamed the three lions line to better reflect recent events or whatever, basically just trying to hide the lionesses achievements so they dont have to think about women potentially being better than men at something relativley speaking, and can be in denial about their blatant mysoginy. rant over.
TLDR: The whole situation around the names is franky insane and anyone spending their time on a forum crying about it needs to touch grass

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2024 ==

also alot of people miss the fact that when these are in circulation most of the public realistically wont care or know what they're referring to and if they do it'll simply be "oh that's cool" for a reaction.

I was talking about the politics involved. I know that it was criticised on here. However in the real world guess what people call it?

this is what i mean. no matter how annoyed you get. the general public do not care. so for you're own sake dont get so worked up. you're stressing over nothing.

oh also any time i've used "you" it does not refer to the people i've replied to. im addressing the people spending their energy geting annoyed. i just realised it reads like im directing it the other way

 

[vuzzeho]

Windrush signage up and visible at Surrey Quays

 

[boiledbeans2]

Windrush signage up and visible at Surrey Quays

Interesting that they kept the Tram logo for the Tramlink. I would have expected "London Trams" on a green rectangular background, like the top left of this pic:

https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/images/tram-service-map.jpg

 

[bramling]

TfL standard practice. People who live in London, who after all are far and away the biggest users, are absolutely used to this.

Frankly what underlies most of the complaints is discontent at the names chosen due to political bias. Londoners, of who l am one, gave the Mayor a new mandate so frankly those from elsewhere can suck it up and butt out. We don't care about rants about our mayor.

When the London mayor goes begging to the national government for money to keep the transport system running, non-Londoners have every right to scrutinise how the London mayor is spending the money that he has.

The Overground has managed quite happily without line names for well over a decade, so one does have to question whether the whole thing represents value for money.

And, all that aside, the names really are awful as well, just to put the cherry on top of the cake.

 

[Recessio]

When the London mayor goes begging to the national government for money to keep the transport system running, non-Londoners have every right to scrutinise how the London mayor is spending the money that he has.

The Overground has managed quite happily without line names for well over a decade, so one does have to question whether the whole thing represents value for money.

And, all that aside, the names really are awful as well, just to put the cherry on top of the cake.

The money spent on this is a rounding error in the grand scheme of TfL's budget. And while Overground has worked fine for over a decade, they've realised that a way to improve the passenger experience is to give the separate lines separate identities. I think it's good that as an operator LO continued to look for ways to improve the service.

 

[bicbasher]

Even taxpayers who subsidise TfL from outside London are likely to use the system at some point, either as tourists or using cross London terminal connections, so the renaming of the LO lines will benefit them in addition to regular commuters.

 

[Wolfie]

When the London mayor goes begging to the national government for money to keep the transport system running, non-Londoners have every right to scrutinise how the London mayor is spending the money that he has.

The Overground has managed quite happily without line names for well over a decade, so one does have to question whether the whole thing represents value for money.

And, all that aside, the names really are awful as well, just to put the cherry on top of the cake.

Fine. So l assume that you are happy that no taxes raised in London get spent on transport elsewhere in the country.

 

[bicbasher]

Fine. So l assume that you are happy that no taxes raised in London get spent on transport elsewhere in the country.

I'm sure the people of Dorking are benefitting from £1.75 bus fares on the 465 into Kingston or the 405 from Redhill to Croydon which is 25p cheaper than the current subsidised travel on the local bus routes. Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire and Essex benefit from TfL rail lines and yet there are some London boroughs still not served by any form of TfL rail service.

 

[stuu]

The Overground has managed quite happily without line names for well over a decade, so one does have to question whether the whole thing represents value for money.

But it hasn't, the information is really poor because of the number of different lines. That is the point.

Hearing a message on the tube saying "severe delays on the Overground" is almost entirely pointless. It's like a road traffic report saying delays on the motorway. Individual names are much, much more useful for everyone

It's no surprise that people who regularly moan about Khan and TfL seem to not understand this point

 

[norbitonflyer]

..... there are some London boroughs still not served by any form of TfL rail service.

Only one, now that the Elizabeth Line has reached Abbey Wood, whose entrance is in LB Bexley.

 

[Wolfie]

Only one, now that the Elizabeth Line has reached Abbey Wood, whose entrance is in LB Bexley.

Which one out of curiosity?

 

[BankQuayLowLvl]

Which one out of curiosity?

Kingston. Though I doubt the people of Sutton feel particularly well served by two tram stops in an industrial estate!

 

[Wolfie]

Kingston. Though I doubt the people of Sutton feel particularly well served by two tram stops in an industrial estate!

TY

 

[Goldfish62]

But it hasn't, the information is really poor because of the number of different lines. That is the point.

Hearing a message on the tube saying "severe delays on the Overground" is almost entirely pointless. It's like a road traffic report saying delays on the motorway. Individual names are much, much more useful for everyone

It's no surprise that people who regularly moan about Khan and TfL seem to not understand this point

I gave up long ago trying to point all this out. If people haven't got it by now they never will.