New Overground line names progress?

[jammmmmsssssss]

Weaver Line

Lea valley lines sounds so much better. Also it should be called "weaver lines"

 

[bluegoblin7]

Lea valley lines sounds so much better. Also it should be called "weaver lines"

Why? It isn’t Metropolitan lines, Central lines, District lines, Northern lines or Piccadilly lines. The Weaver line is no different.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Why? It isn’t Metropolitan lines, Central lines, District lines, Northern lines or Piccadilly lines. The Weaver line is no different.

There are 3 distinct lines

 

[87015]

There are 3 distinct lines

None of which are the Lea Valley…

 

[pokemonsuper9]

There are 3 distinct lines

If you don't consider the Enfield town and Cheshunt branches part of the same line, I think about 8 tube lines need new names.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

None of which are the Lea Valley…

I know but it sounds better

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2024 ==

If you don't consider the Enfield town and Cheshunt branches part of the same line, I think about 8 tube lines need new names.

Yeah fair. Chingford branch is completely different though and I think it should have a different line name

 

[edwil]

If you don't consider the Enfield town and Cheshunt branches part of the same line, I think about 8 tube lines need new names.

These two "branches" has only 3 stations in common. Which 8 other tube lines have 3 or less stations in common but are branded as one "line" under the same name?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

These two "branches" has only 3 stations in common. Which 8 other tube lines have 3 or less stations in common but are branded as one "line" under the same name?

Are you confusing Cheshunt and Chingford?
Trains from Liverpool Street to Cheshunt/Enfield Town call at;
Liverpool Street, Bethnal Green, Cambridge Heath, London Fields, Hackney Downs, Rectory Road, Stoke Newington, Stamford Hill, Severn Sisters, Bruce Grove, White Hart Lane, Silver Street and Edmonton Green.

 

[Purple Train]

These two "branches" have only 3 stations in common. Which 8 other tube lines have 3 or less stations in common but are branded as one "line" under the same name?

The Northern Line for one, and that seems to have managed alright for the past 120 years or so. The appearance of the Chingford branch is twisted slightly by the fact that it skips London Fields and Cambridge Heath. If the service stopped there - and it is possible that they may do so in the future - then it would be five stations on the core and six on the branch, which definitely isn't unreasonable. The lines are operationally interworked as well - even if they retained the stopping pattern, it really wouldn't make sense to brand Chingford services separately.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

The Northern Line for one, and that seems to have managed alright for the past 120 years or so. The appearance of the Chingford branch is twisted slightly by the fact that it skips London Fields and Cambridge Heath. If the service stopped there - and it is possible that they may do so in the future - then it would be five stations on the core and six on the branch, which definitely isn't unreasonable. The lines are operationally interworked as well - even if they retained the stopping pattern, it really wouldn't make sense to brand Chingford services separately.

The trains on the Chingford branch usually use the tracks that GA services use between Bethnal Green and Hackney Downs, which don't have platforms for either of those stations. It's operationally easier to do this as it doesn't block both tracks to do the crossover at Hackney Downs (which you'd have to do if they stopped there)

 

[Purple Train]

The trains on the Chingford branch usually use the tracks that GA services use between Bethnal Green and Hackney Downs, which don't have platforms for either of those stations. It's operationally easier to do this as it doesn't block both tracks to do the crossover at Hackney Downs (which you'd have to do if they stopped there)

Indeed. I'm not denying that it's operationally easier that they run fast to Hackney Downs, but they're definitely not completely separate services - at least, not enough to make it a separate line. It's like Elizabeth Line services out of Paddington before the core opened - Reading and Heathrow trains only shared three stops (except the terminus), but branding the Heathrow services separately when it was one homogenous fleet and two interworked routes didn't make sense at all.

 

[edwil]

Are you confusing Cheshunt and Chingford?
Trains from Liverpool Street to Cheshunt/Enfield Town call at;
Liverpool Street, Bethnal Green, Cambridge Heath, London Fields, Hackney Downs, Rectory Road, Stoke Newington, Stamford Hill, Severn Sisters, Bruce Grove, White Hart Lane, Silver Street and Edmonton Green.

My apologies. I misread and thought you were referring to Enfield Town vs Chingford. I do agree it makes sense to brand all services running between Liverpool Street and Cheshunt / Enfield Town under the same line.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2024 ==

Indeed. I'm not denying that it's operationally easier that they run fast to Hackney Downs, but they're definitely not completely separate services - at least, not enough to make it a separate line. It's like Elizabeth Line services out of Paddington before the core opened - Reading and Heathrow trains only shared three stops (except the terminus), but branding the Heathrow services separately when it was one homogenous fleet and two interworked routes didn't make sense at all.

IMO the Heathrow branch on the Elizabeth Line / TfL Rail is a marginal case as the Heathrow branch only contains 3 stations (2 stops for each individual service). So both the shared section and the branch are short enough and it's justifiable either way.

The Northern Line for one, and that seems to have managed alright for the past 120 years or so. The appearance of the Chingford branch is twisted slightly by the fact that it skips London Fields and Cambridge Heath. If the service stopped there - and it is possible that they may do so in the future - then it would be five stations on the core and six on the branch, which definitely isn't unreasonable. The lines are operationally interworked as well - even if they retained the stopping pattern, it really wouldn't make sense to brand Chingford services separately.

I do think Northern Line should be split completely - both the branding and the service pattern - to improve reliability, but this depends on Camden Town station modernisation...

Back on the Chingford branch, if it were stopping at all five stations, then it might make sense to treat it as a branch off the Liverpool St - Enfield Town line. Just that the chance for additional stops seems to be quite low.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

I do think Northern Line should be split completely - both the branding and the service pattern - to improve reliability, but this depends on Camden Town station modernisation...

Back on the Chingford branch, if it were stopping at all five stations, then it might make sense to treat it as a branch off the Liverpool St - Enfield Town line. Just that the chance for additional stops seems to be quite low.

I agree with both of these

 

[Wolfie]

I do think Northern Line should be split completely - both the branding and the service pattern - to improve reliability, but this depends on Camden Town station modernisation...

I wonder whether Kennington, while obviously not as busy as Camden Town, may need changes too.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Quite. İf you are looking at the Liverpool Street area you will be unlikely to notice the "other" monochrome line out to the east, nor notice that it is a slightly lighter shade of grey than the connector blobs and lines.

Yeah, considering that tourists may be using the small pocket tube map, and the line thickness differences may not be obvious.

Another consideration is that a lot of tube maps / London & South East maps on above ground stations have faded colour with constant sun exposure.

Anyway, if they've now split the Overground, should they split the DLR as well? On the DLR trains, there are maps with 3 different colours, all in shades of blue-green, showing the different routes.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I wonder whether Kennington, while obviously not as busy as Camden Town, may need changes too.

I think the main point is currently Edgware and High Barnet can (morning weekday peak excluded) travel on a direct service from both branches throughout the day, and the inevitable increase in people changing at Camden when suddenly Bank branch users can only go to, say Edgware, and Charing X branch users can only go to High Barnet, is what will be intense enough to need the upgrade.

Whereas at Kennington, nothing will really change, because Bank branch will not lose the Battersea services it never had in the first place, and the Charing Cross branch is already 90% Battersea or terminating only anyway.

 

[norbitonflyer]

But surely people would know their destination, and then find out what the line is called, but not the other way around

Yes indeed. So you look at the Liverpool Street area, see what looks like a short grey/black line connecting two stations together, and look for it on the key.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Sep 2024 ==

Lea valley lines sounds so much better. Also it should be called "weaver lines"

But it isn't the Lea Valley Line. That has always been the name of the original line following the River Lea, through Ponders End, which does not even appear on the Tube map because it remains with Greater Anglia. (Rememeber the "Lea Valley" dmus (class 125) which were built to keep up with the electrics when, for some reason all lines out of Liverpool Street except that one were electrified.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Yes indeed. So you look at the Liverpool Street area, see what looks like a short grey/black line connecting two stations together, and look for it on the key.

But it doesn't look like that

But it isn't the Lea Valley Line. That has always been the name of the original line following the River Lea, through Ponders End, which does not even appear on the Tube map because it remains with Greater Anglia. (Rememeber the "Lea Valley" dmus (class 125) which were built to keep up with the electrics when, for some reason all lines out of Liverpool Street except that one were electrified.

I've heard them referred to as that a lot

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Quick question on the Mildmay line...

Is the first syllable pronounced as "mild" (as in a pint of)? Or the same as in "mildew" (as a homophone of "milled")? I've heard both, so I'm not sure which is correct. The former is my gut instinct, but I'd rather get it right.

 

[Wolfie]

Quick question on the Mildmay line...

Is the first syllable pronounced as "mild" (as in a pint of)? Or the same as in "mildew" (as a homophone of "milled")? I've heard both, so I'm not sure which is correct. The former is my gut instinct, but I'd rather get it right.

I live in Islington Council's Mildmay ward and have never heard the second version.

 

[bramling]

I think the main point is currently Edgware and High Barnet can (morning weekday peak excluded) travel on a direct service from both branches throughout the day, and the inevitable increase in people changing at Camden when suddenly Bank branch users can only go to, say Edgware, and Charing X branch users can only go to High Barnet, is what will be intense enough to need the upgrade.

Whereas at Kennington, nothing will really change, because Bank branch will not lose the Battersea services it never had in the first place, and the Charing Cross branch is already 90% Battersea or terminating only anyway.

What makes the difference on the southern end of the line is the presence of the Victoria Line interchange at Stockwell, which provides access to the west end. Whilst some people still change at Kennington, significantly large numbers of people change at Stockwell so as to even things out.

It’s also a factor that at peak times Bank trains are more popular. This wouldn’t be a problem at the south end of the line as everything from Morden would go that way anyway, in fact it anything it might make things better. But much more of a problem at the north end, even though the Edgware branch is more “blue collar” than Barnet there are still going to be relatively large numbers of people who want to get to/from the Bank branch, and unlike the south end of the line there aren’t any good interchanges with other lines like at Stockwell - in fact many of the interchanges on the Charing Cross branch are quite torturous to use, the only really good one is Leicester Square to/from the Piccadilly Line, which isn’t helpful for reaching the city.

 

[Basil Jet]

Quick question on the Mildmay line...

Is the first syllable pronounced as "mild" (as in a pint of)? Or the same as in "mildew" (as a homophone of "milled")? I've heard both, so I'm not sure which is correct. The former is my gut instinct, but I'd rather get it right.

I think the correct pronunciation is actually Marmay, but whether the line will be called that in practice is another matter.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Mildmay, Windrush - Slightly awkward with or without the "line", due to the tiny pause after the "d"

If Mildmay is pronounced as my paternal grandparents did, that is, 'Marmay', then there's no problem. Before they were married, they both lived a few hundred yards from Mildmay Park station (Hayling Road, Hawthorne Street), so I guess they knew how to pronounce it in the prescribed fashion.

 

[vuzzeho]

Didn't have time to get a picture, but one route diagram on the Northbound LO platform at Canada Water is uncovered for all to see. The other is covered.

both are uncovered on the southbound platform at canada water. i'm just glad to be able to finally call it the windrush line instead of 'my local overground line'

 

[Mr. SW]

It's the London Accent. Various terminal consonants are dropped. Vowels shifted. Terminal L mutated to W.

> Wy'-cha'paw (Whitechapel)
> My'aw En' (Mile End)
> Miw wahw (Millwall)

Pronounce Mildmay what ever way you think appropriate.

Mi' Grai'grai'granmuvva died in Stepni' an' berrid in Iw'fud.

 

[Wolfie]

I think the correct pronunciation is actually Marmay, but whether the line will be called that in practice is another matter.

I've certainly heard some older locals using that.

 

[ShadowKnight]

The Geoff Marshall video talking with the TFL design team about selecting the overground line colours is quite informative about the selection process and the philosophy about the design.

I think any potential confusion about the liberty line and station connection blobs are minimum if at all. It will be more of a curiosity as it is so far off east on the map for any confusion

 

[Basil Jet]

I've certainly heard some older locals using that.

The thing about the Marmay pronunciation is, you either love it or hate it.

 

[Busman]

After the flurry of initial publicity , barely any thing has seemed to have been updated. The official maps don't feature the new line names, nor do the disruption descriptions on the tfl website. I haven't seen much at the stations either

Bit like the Central line refurb, roll out huge publicity over a non-externally painted train but new puke inducing seats, a dot matrix screen that has the 'wrong voice on it' and some cheap LED lighting and hey presto, you've got something.

Months and months later, the second train still hasn't been finished and train 1 continues to fall on its backside.

Even when this rollout does happen, you're looking at every single line, every single station, every single train to be updated and yet, not one shred of evidence this is happening and we're fast approaching the end of the year.

I think it's best TfL just shut their mouths until they are absolutely assured a project will come to fruition within the relevant timescales. Shambles of an organisation.

 

[BankQuayLowLvl]

You might note that a lot of the station signage is already updated - see diamond geezer from 26th August. I would assume that if this was widely rolled out at that stage it might well be the case that nearly all in-station signage has now been fixed up.

In-train signage would be a lot quicker so not surprising we're yet to see it, I'd guess that'll be done week-of. And I assume there's no changes to train livery or internal design, that'll stay Overground Orange.