New GW/TL/ET Franchise Competitions Start

[LNW-GW Joint]

The initial announcement of the intention to let these 3 franchises has appeared on the DfT web site.
This includes an OJEU notice which is the formal announcement of the public procurement for each one.
Bidders are asked to pre-qualify to receive the ITT, as happened last year for WC.
They will be having a busy Christmas.
Anyone want to run a railway?

Great Western 2013 (15 years) - ITT in May 2012, winner announced Dec 2012, franchise starts Apr 2013
Seems to be the current FGW service scope.
Franchisee can procure new EMUs (but IEPs wil be procured by DfT).
This seems to suggest GW can have new EMUs rather than cast off 319s.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/great-western-franchise-2013

Thameslink 2013 (7 years + 2 optional) - ITT in Oct 2012, winner May 2013, franchise starts Sept 2013
Starts with current FCC scope, but adds some Southeastern services in 2014, and adds "all the services operated by the current Southern franchise" over the period 2014-17.
At face value this merges FCC and Southern franchises, unless there is a scope error in this statement.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/thameslink-franchise-2013

Essex Thameside 2013 (15 years) - ITT June 2012, winner Jan 2013, franchise starts May 2013
Seems to be a simple roll-over of the current franchise.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/essex-thameside-2013

 

[martin2345uk]

Forgive me if this is a gimpish question but if a TOC lose their franchise what happens to their staff?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

They transfer over...

 

[Aictos]

That's interesting, why the 7 year franchise for the Thameslink franchise?

Thought long term franchises were the way forward?

Also good to see the Great Western franchise can order new EMUs but what design would you guys prefer to see on the route?

 

[HSTEd]

So does this leave the non Thameslink Cambridge trains with FCC?
That's surprising, I would have thought folding it into the ICEC franchise would be more logical.

 

[Aictos]

All services currently operated by FCC go over to the new Thameslink franchise in September 2013 with the joint services currently operated by South Eastern/FCC going over to the new franchise between April and December 2014 along with certain other SE services and finally between 2014 and 2017,all services currently operated by Southern go over to the new franchise to form a Super TOC as it would be by December 2017.

Which puts paid to talk of the FCC inners becoming part of LOROL.....

 

[hairyhandedfool]

That's interesting, why the 7 year franchise for the Thameslink franchise?

Thought long term franchises were the way forward?....

In seven years time FCC and Southern will be the same TOC, so presumably the Southern franchise will end at that time, allowing a bigger franchise to be awarded at that point.

 

[ainsworth74]

That's interesting, why the 7 year franchise for the Thameslink franchise?

Thought long term franchises were the way forward?

It's basically a management contract, the aim of the franchise is to oversee the delivery of Thameslink and once that's complete it will be let on a long term basis.

 

[swt_passenger]

All services currently operated by FCC go over to the new Thameslink franchise in September 2013 with the joint services currently operated by South Eastern/FCC going over to the new franchise between April and December 2014 along with certain other SE services and finally between 2014 and 2017,all services currently operated by Southern go over to the new franchise to form a Super TOC as it would be by December 2017.

Which puts paid to talk of the FCC inners becoming part of LOROL.....

There never was any 'official' talk; I think it has nearly all come from people who think that TfL have a magic wand and would automatically replace everything with brand new 378s, money's no object...

However I see the GW spec mentions 'Airtrack Lite' (as well as Heathrow western access). Does that mean it's suddenly gone from a local authority good idea, to a DfT/NR good idea?

 

[HSTEd]

Makes me wish I had lots of money so I could bid for the Thameslink Franchise....

 

[tbtc]

There never was any 'official' talk; I think it has nearly all come from people who think that TfL have a magic wand and would automatically replace everything with brand new 378s, money's no object...

It doesn't need 378s right away, but it is an awkward "leftover" when the other FCC services are split between Thameslink and IEP.

 

[HSTEd]

It doesn't need 378s right away, but it is an awkward "leftover" when the other FCC services are split between Thameslink and IEP.

Well according to the Transport Investment figures, money is no object.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That's interesting, why the 7 year franchise for the Thameslink franchise?
Thought long term franchises were the way forward?
Also good to see the Great Western franchise can order new EMUs but what design would you guys prefer to see on the route?

I should think DfT want to review TL after all the upgrades are done and the new trains are in service (and Crossrail is complete).
Because of all the changes, it would be very hard to predict the long-term financials over a longer period.

The technical detail of the franchises will emerge when the public consultation starts, probably early in the new year.

Interesting that the three pre-qualification bids are running simultaneously ending on 9 Feb 2012. I wonder if anybody will go for all three?

 

[swt_passenger]

It doesn't need 378s right away, but it is an awkward "leftover" when the other FCC services are split between Thameslink and IEP.

Seems to me there'll be loads of awkward leftovers on SN's current empire as well - do the coastway services really fit in with 'Thameslink' for instance?

Ought to simplify the London - Brighton fares a bit though, maybe there'll be no Gat Ex fares by then either...

 

[HSTEd]

Honestly surprised they wont be collapsing SWT and SE into a new Southern franchise with the "awkward leftovers" from SN.....

 

[tbtc]

Seems to me there'll be loads of awkward leftovers on SN's current empire as well - do the coastway services really fit in with 'Thameslink' for instance?

Ought to simplify the London - Brighton fares a bit though, maybe there'll be no Gat Ex fares by then either...

I agree on both points. Always a danger when splitting franchises up, of course, but I'm not sure how they are going to treat the "non London" parts of Southern.

 

[Simon11]

I've had a look briefly at all three franchises.

McNulty said that larger TOC's would provide more economies of scale. So that explains why Southern, Eastern, FCC will be combined. Then why the heck does C2C remain as it is? Surely you would apply the policy to all new franchises? Seems relativity simple to merge it with East Anglia? What could the new operator possibly do with C2C improvement wise, or does DaFT not want to make any changes to one of their star performing TOCs?

I believe in competition but if you combine FCC and Southern, you remove all competition on the Brighton Main Line from one of the most competitive routes in the UK?

I'm personally not a fan of the new franchises and seems strange as to why Great Northern will be grouped with a bunch of South London lines......

And finally, Southern operates a complex network, which will only become more complex and varied. It will be a mega challenge!!!!

 

[KingBBoogaloo]

So does this leave the non Thameslink Cambridge trains with FCC?
That's surprising, I would have thought folding it into the ICEC franchise would be more logical.

Pencilled in to join Greater Anglia.

 

[WatcherZero]

Maybe they will later combine it with Southeastern.

edit: beaten by above with similar idea. Geograhically Anglia makes more sense but its network profiles closer to that of Southeastern.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm personally not a fan of the new franchises and seems strange as to why Great Northern will be grouped with a bunch of South London lines......

If you look at the NR signalling migration plans posted on another thread, the Kings Cross control area is due to migrate to Three Bridges.
Looks like a strategic decision has been made.

 

[northwichcat]

Great Western 2013 (15 years) - ITT in May 2012, winner announced Dec 2012, franchise starts Apr 2013
Seems to be the current FGW service scope.
Franchisee can procure new EMUs (but IEPs wil be procured by DfT).
This seems to suggest GW can have new EMUs rather than cast off 319s.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/great-western-franchise-2013

Northern will require more EMUs for local services now that North TPE electrification has been announced. However, 86 x 4 car EMUs seems too many, ignoring EMUs required for long distance services, so maybe the 321s and 323s would finish up leaving Northern or maybe another operator would take on some 319s.

While electrification will be replacing some DMUs Northern have a very old DMU fleet and with the 153s likely being reformed in to longer units hopefully the next Northern franchise includes an order for around 100 x 3 car DMUs.

 

[John55]

The OJEU contains the following text;

"It is currently expected that the franchise operator will take responsibility for the provision of rolling stock. This is likely to include the procurement of a fleet of Electric Multiple Units to take advantage of the planned electrification. From 2017 new Intercity Express Trains (“IEP”) are anticipated to be delivered to the franchise operator with the full fleet available from early 2018, which, in the event, would cause changes for the high speed fleet."

It very clearly says "a fleet of EMUs" and "new IEP". The inference is that the fleet of EMUs is not new, or at least not necessarily new. The text "franchisee is to take responsibility for rolling stock" means the DfT will not be deciding and it is up to the bidders to find the best deal.

It also presumably explains the stories doing the rounds of various TOCs or potential TOCs exploring the procurement of a variant of Pendolino instead of IEP

 

[northwichcat]

to include the procurement of a fleet of Electric Multiple Units

Procurement normally suggests various options are evaluated before a decision is made. If it's 319s or nothing then it's not really procurement. If it's a choice of 319s or new EMUs then it is procurement even if the 319s are the chosen option.

 

[WatcherZero]

Its the Dft's responsibility to make sure rolling stock is available where nedeed, its the franchises to secure terms for use or procure rolling stock beyond base provision to the franchise.

For example the Dft provided the 317's to Southern, Southern decided to procure new rolling stock.

 

[Nym]

Could also be a case of 319s vice 365s... Just to throw another in there...

 

[swt_passenger]

It also presumably explains the stories doing the rounds of various TOCs or potential TOCs exploring the procurement of a variant of Pendolino instead of IEP

That isn't what it says to me at all.

"From 2017 new Intercity Express Trains (“IEP”) are anticipated to be delivered to the franchise operator with the full fleet available from early 2018."

That sounds far more like 'we will provide IEPs', I think...

 

[Aictos]

Its the Dft's responsibility to make sure rolling stock is available where nedeed, its the franchises to secure terms for use or procure rolling stock beyond base provision to the franchise.

For example the Dft provided the 317's to Southern, Southern decided to procure new rolling stock.

I like your thesis but the only problem is the 317s are AC EMUs,

 

[WatcherZero]

oops, meant the 377's not 317's.

Dft makes them available (well a little late) Southern chooses not to use them.

 

[LE Greys]

Makes me wish I had lots of money so I could bid for the Thameslink Franchise....

Me too. The whole of FCC, ideally. The Cambridge Buffet Express might well return, chiefly for the benefit of tourists. It would also stop at Stevenage, Hitchin and Letchworth, thus making better use of a Welwyn path. Class 90 haulage would be considered, again to make better use of a Welwyn path (also meaning that we could drop the buffet cars and reform with just passenger saloons and a trolley space if it's uneconomical after a year). Over on Thameslink, I would make every effort to cancel the rolling stock order and go to Bombardier instead. If that's impossible, I'd at least try to get Siemens to source as many parts as possible from UK firms. There's really no way to change the service at present, although I'd push for 100 mph on the Brighton Line. Pity it's impossible to quadruple to Heyward's Heath, but that would mean a second viaduct at Balcombe.

 

[Minstral25]

Can't believe they are merging it with Southern - still solves the question of who will run the Wimbledon Loop!

Over a Billion Pounds of passenger revenue - South Eastern is already too big at £1/2billion, look at the complaints there already - how will anyone manage such a large franchise