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New Bus for London

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radamfi

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The provincial operators could easily speed up boarding times without compromising fraud protection by implementing touch in touch out smartcards like the Dutch and Trent Barton, but they aren't prepared to invest in the technology. Even a supposedly innovative operator like Stagecoach are still wedded to painfully slow cash payment. Even low tech solutions like strip tickets or bus stop ticket machines as commonly used elsewhere in Europe would be a big improvement. With much fanfare, First claimed a long time ago that they would have a touch in touch out smartcard/contactless card facility. In some areas the ticket machines have been installed for some time, so what's the delay?

It may seem unfair that London's buses get a lot more subsidy than the rest of the country, but how does the subsidy in London compare with cities in the rest of Europe? Probably unfavourably, given that fares in London are not that cheap when compared to places outside the UK, especially when interchange between buses and between buses and trams/metros are taken into account. So it is not that London has too much subsidy, it is more that the rest of the country has hardly any, and what little there is, is mostly spent on free passes and less important services.

But what would the rest of the country do with more subsidy? It would be good to reinstate tendered services that have been cut in recent years so that most places have a reasonable service, but the vast majority of services, and the ones carrying the vast majority of passengers, are commercial services where no subsidy is allowed. I suppose BSOG could be increased, but that would really be tinkering around the edges and may translate into increased profits rather than reduced fares. So I conclude that the subsidy wouldn't be well spent outside London unless a Quality Contract is imposed.

Introducing more bus priority and new busways would be a wise use of public money inside or outside London, but this is usually referred to as investment rather than subsidy.
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By the way, just in case people weren't aware, the NBfL does not, strictly speaking, have air conditioning. If it did, it would need a third axle. It has an uprated air cooling system.
 
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Mikey C

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We use single doors in Edinburgh as well. It used to be dual doors, but it's been single door for a few years. There were quite a few Tridents converted to single door, but I can't remember when it was.
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From what I've been told, one of the reasons for Lothian switching to single doors was an increasing number of claims from people saying that drivers had shut the centre doors on them. That and the increasing fare evasion from people sneaking on through the centre doors when the driver was busy dealing with people at the front.
The general opinion from the other drivers who've used both single and dual doors seems to be that they're a bit of a nuisance, and it's much better just having one set of doors at the front.
The middle door might be a 'nuisance' for the driver, but for the poor old passenger it does rather speed things up! It's really noticeable how long deboarding and boarding takes at busy bus stops.

Years ago in Odense Denmark, the buses there has a most unusual system. You bought tokens beforehand
You entered the bus at the back
You got off the bus at the front, by dropping the token into a container by the driver.
This seemed to work well, though it did seem odd at the time!
 

90019

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The middle door might be a 'nuisance' for the driver, but for the poor old passenger it does rather speed things up! It's really noticeable how long deboarding and boarding takes at busy bus stops.

That's not a problem for us, because of the flat fare system and widespread use of Ridacards, it takes seconds to get each passenger on and as such we can load a bus pretty quickly. Unloading doesn't take long and only having the front doors means we can keep an eye on elderly or frail passengers who are getting off and make sure they're ok.
In the rush hours, you can pull into a stop, get 15 or 20 people on the bus and be pulling away again within a minute or two.
In the time it takes for a Firstbus to load 6 or 7 people paying cash fares, we can clear a stop and fill a bus.

My most recent record for getting stuck behind a First bus at a stop was at Waverley Steps on a 29 - I was a minute down when I pulled up to the stop behind him, and by the time we moved off I was 10 minutes late. He'd got 11 people onto his bus in that time.


I should point out that I used to commute on the bus in my previous job, and as a passenger I also prefer single doors.
I'm sure having two sets of doors works fine elsewhere, but single doors suits Edinburgh in my opinion.
Honestly, a lot of the time I'm not that convinced about the advantages of having centre door, particularly on deckers. If it is really busy and you have lots of people getting off, people getting on will still have to wait, it's just that they'll be a bit further onto the bus. If you have a load of people on a decker coming down from the top deck and going straight out the centre doors, then people who have just got on the bus will still have to wait at the bottom of the stairs for them to go first.
And if it's a single deck, then you generally won't have enough people getting on and off at each stop for it to be an issue anyway.
I'm sure having two sets of stairs on a decker helps the flow, but in my opinion it's also rather a waste of space which would be better used for seating.

What is the maximum capacity of these new buses?
 
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radamfi

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Lothian also has exact fare which also speeds things up. But I thought that First in Edinburgh also has exact fare, even if you are travelling long distance?

The NBfL has a capacity of 87, 22 seats downstairs, 40 seats upstairs and 25 standing.
 
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starrymarkb

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Lothian also has exact fare which also speeds things up. But I thought that First in Edinburgh also has exact fare, even if you are travelling long distance?

The NBfL has a capacity of 87, 40 seats downstairs, 22 seats upstairs and 25 standing.

IIRC Lothian is flat fare which was displayed on the stops allowing you to get ready before boarding. IIRC first operate exact fare, but with varying and unpublished fares so passenger asks driver for fare, then has to find sufficient small change for the usually awkward amount eg (£1.85)
 

radamfi

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IIRC Lothian is flat fare which was displayed on the stops allowing you to get ready before boarding. IIRC first operate exact fare, but with varying and unpublished fares so passenger asks driver for fare, then has to find sufficient small change for the usually awkward amount eg (£1.85)

Yes, exact fare should really be used in conjunction with a flat fare otherwise hunting for change could be a problem. Most places which currently use an exact fare system now have a flat or simple fare structure, although this wouldn't have been the case in the 70s when these systems were introduced.
 

swifty

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The Borrismaster is to feature on Top Gear within the next 3 weeks. James May spent a few days in and around the Bristol area recently with LT7 driving it around on a road test and getting up to typical TG mischief.
 

transmanche

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The Borrismaster is to feature on Top Gear within the next 3 weeks. James May spent a few days in and around the Bristol area recently with LT7 driving it around on a road test and getting up to typical TG mischief.
It would be great to see The Stig setting a time in it on the Top Gear Track! If only... :D
 

jon0844

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Given the selective editing and suggestions of rigging outcomes of tests, it would be very risky to let them get a bus to play with.
 

Mikey C

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The Borrismaster is to feature on Top Gear within the next 3 weeks. James May spent a few days in and around the Bristol area recently with LT7 driving it around on a road test and getting up to typical TG mischief.

If he drives it under a low bridge, then the overheating problems on the top deck will be solved!
 

bb21

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If he drives it under a low bridge, then the overheating problems on the top deck will be solved!

Please let it be true. <D

I can see it in the Eye already. "What overheating problem?" claims posh boy, "It demonstrates to us the versatility of the bus and its ability to meet changing seasonal demands." :D
 

Deerfold

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Please let it be true. <D

I can see it in the Eye already. "What overheating problem?" claims posh boy, "It demonstrates to us the versatility of the bus and its ability to meet changing seasonal demands." :D

If iBus is turned on, the driver should get warning of any low bridges they approach.
 

richardderby

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appartently there are still a lot of problems with the 'air cooling system' it seems the public are now nicknaming them 'The Roastmaster' :D
 

bicbasher

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appartently there are still a lot of problems with the 'air cooling system' it seems the public are now nicknaming them 'The Roastmaster' :D

Tell me about it, I did a short trip on the 24 between Trafalgar Square and Tottenham Court Road on Monday afternoon when it was over 30c in London and at least under 40c on the lower deck.

I felt sorry for the customer assistant/conductor (delete as appropriate) who dealt with complaints mainly from curious tourists about the temperature inside the bus.
 
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