New automatic ticket gates at King’s Cross

[blacknight]

Surely not seat reservations though? Or else people will go on to think they work, and will argue that when they stop working.

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

From my experience by accepting reservations it makes revenue protection almost impossible.
For example you can see passenger only as reservation part of AP ticket & tell them its not valid for travel & as to buy another ticket, passenger then puts reservation into the gate which accepts it as valid ticket & opens.
Passenger then comes & as a pop that you dont know your job trying to rip them off for another fare disgrace to the uniform, which I immediately offered to remove if I would make him feel better

 

[amcluesent]

LOL. Just tried an expired 2010 season ticket KGX-PBO, worked fine!

 

[Failed Unit]

Today's observations of the waste of money at Kings Cross.

Only 5 gates ready for passengers heading onto trains. All others were for people coming off trains.

My out of date CHFAM Edinburgh - Linlithgow ticket got me past no questions asked. I will go for the collection receipt next time. I heading through the barriers before the train was announced as it was the only 225 set in.

The train was announce 20 minutes before but long queues soon formed at the single wide gate. Bikes, trolleys of suitcases etc all wanting to pass.

FCC had a service to Cambridge on platform 8, so the service with no revenue protection is on a un gated platform, as this is going to use the slow lines I guess this is normal. No point in say putting it in 0 to obstruct other trains crossing the station.

The HT service arrived on platform 3 which means anyone wanting to access these areas for free can just say let me past I am going to buy on board the hull trains service.

I wonder if my ticket will be checked before Peterborough, I know I won't get to Edinburgh without a check but is this train another we welcome FCC only tickets

It is a joke. FCC should really be on barriered platforms and the open access ones not, grand centrals Bradford service was also their to let passengers avoid the barriers on Monday.

Letter to east coast time, I know they will give all the normal crap to defend the barriers, but at least the compliant will be recorded and can be escalated as well.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Good news is a full ticket check is taking place, so we didn't need delaying by the barriers. I hope this still happens if / when the barriers start working. But when they do reject tickets I don't think 5 will be enough the queues are already long without the chaos of rejected tickets.

 

[jopsuk]

I do wonder- with rebuilding, would it have been possible (if expensive) to go radical and replace the suburban shed (which, unlike the main station, is hardly a masterpiece) with a four or five platform, twleve car long, shed- enough (surely) for almost all FCC services? it wouldn't have been possible to build it with the current orientation of the shed, or with the new concourse in the same position (let alone the exit for the northern ticket hall oif the underground)- but then when suggesting radical ideas, this shouldn't be a probllem. Could then have had an underground-style massive gate line for the FCC platforms, and left the Intercity platforms as ungated or manual checks.

 

[jon0844]

FCC do have trains put on platforms 0-5 throughout the day and even into the evening, but with the work being done on the platforms it's a mess and can change last minute. I can usually see the 'booked' platform but I'd say that I am probably wrong about 50% of the time at the moment so it's really not worth looking to get a heads-up on people waiting on the concourse or by 9-11. Thus, I wouldn't read into the situation of where FCC trains are going and why they're not behind the gates.

Bear in mind the plan will be for ALL platforms to be gated, and it sounds like 0-5 is some sort of experiment at the moment if it turns out that anything will open the gates! We all know that staff can easily be persuaded to let you pass by showing them anything orange or gold in colour, but for the gates to do the same seems rather bizarre!

Perhaps after they've done this little experiment, they should just leave them open until the next phase of development - which would then allow FCC to take staff back to 'protect' stations like Potters Bar that have been empty for weeks as a result of them being relocated.

I can see for today that a number of trains are due to go to Cambridge, Peterborough or King's Lynn from platforms 1, 2 and 3 - and a couple from platform 8. All the others are 9, 10 or 11.

Now whether they run from those platforms is another matter, but it seems that FCC is trying hard to schedule services from only gated platforms.

 

[Failed Unit]

I guess the rebuild of the suburban is an interesting debate. Thameslink will take some trains away if it is ever complete. The Cambridge fasts are definately staying from what I understand, but post thameslink will the "great northern" as it may not be FCC then services all be in 9-11? Er no as they can't take 12 car! DOH. Could the rebuild to take 12 car, not sure but I don't think space exists.

 

[philjo]

Perhaps after they've done this little experiment, they should just leave them open until the next phase of development - which would then allow FCC to take staff back to 'protect' stations like Potters Bar that have been empty for weeks as a result of them being relocated.

The gates at Potters Bar have been in use both morning & late afternoon for the last couple of days.
Last week they were in use during morning peak (presumably to stop off-peak travel) but not in the afternoons. As it was half term it meant kids congregating on the platforms again as somewhere under cover to meet - the introduction of the barriers had solved this problem during the school summer holidays last year.

 

[jon0844]

Nobody was there this morning. I was told by revenue staff at Hatfield they were being moved to King's Cross on most days, so the security at Potters Bar must be minimal at best. I was there at 0930 so maybe they've managed to use the gates before that, then head off to King's Cross?

As for 12-car trains for FCC on platforms 9-11, I suppose that when we have more services going through London, 8-cars will be more than enough for the semi-fast services for some considerable time.

FCC has a pretty good service frequency, backed up with the all-station stoppers to WGC and Hertford every 20-30 minutes (and the plan is to increase this to every 15 minutes one day). I am not sure we'll ever see the sort of increases in passenger numbers to require all trains to be 12-car, given that many trains do just fine with 4-cars during the off-peaks and weekends.

 

[philjo]

I guess the rebuild of the suburban is an interesting debate. Thameslink will take some trains away if it is ever complete. The Cambridge fasts are definately staying from what I understand, but post thameslink will the "great northern" as it may not be FCC then services all be in 9-11? Er no as they can't take 12 car! DOH. Could the rebuild to take 12 car, not sure but I don't think space exists.

They could put HT & GC into the suburban platforms as these are currently 5-car trains? This would free up 12-car platforms in the main shed.
HT have used platform 9 on occasions in the past. Platform 9 can access the fast lines directly.

I expect in the peak hour there will still be several GN services from KX to supplement those coming from the TL core - some of these would still be 8 cars. There don't seem to be any plans announced to extend the platforms at stations like Baldock or Ashwell & Morden to take 12-cars but they can take 8 at the moment.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Nobody was there this morning. I was told by revenue staff at Hatfield they were being moved to King's Cross on most days, so the security at Potters Bar must be minimal at best. I was there at 0930 so maybe they've managed to use the gates before that, then head off to King's Cross?

The gates were in use when I came through at 07:55 this morning -there was a bit of a queue as there was only 1 gate allowing us to exit from platforms 1&2. Perhaps they give up at the end of the peak?

 

[jon0844]

I've seen Hull Trains come into platform 9 recently, and put it down to the work being done that means at least two platforms are out of use at any one time (so despite them advertising the 'extra' platform with 0, we've actually lost one in the short term).

 

[wbbminerals]

In these days of health and safety crap everywhere why is a genuine risk like the bottleneck at the end of the gated platforms at KX being overlooked?

Sorry if this has already been posted but the mad rush and bottleneck are not safe after / before going on a 91 or HST set because of the sheer number of people.

 

[blacknight]

Today's observations of the waste of money at Kings Cross.

The HT service arrived on platform 3 which means anyone wanting to access these areas for free can just say let me past I am going to buy on board the hull trains service.

Please do not be offended if the reply is No & go buy a ticket. Just because Hull Trains & GC allow passengers to buy onboard without penalty, it is a misconception that it is then the passenger right to demand to be let through barriers & pay onboard.

 

[Deerfold]

Please do not be offended if the reply is No & go buy a ticket. Just because Hull Trains & GC allow passengers to buy onboard without penalty, it is a misconception that it is then the passenger right to demand to be let through barriers & pay onboard.

Given the signs at KGX say you can buy a ticket on board these services it would seem to invite confusion if barrier staff were then not to let you through.

 

[jon0844]

I am sure they would/will let you through anyway, and there aren't so many trains to make it worthwhile for a fare evader to hang around. I could see them making you wait until the service is announced with the platform for a start.

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

 

[Mojo]

Please do not be offended if the reply is No & go buy a ticket. Just because Hull Trains & GC allow passengers to buy onboard without penalty, it is a misconception that it is then the passenger right to demand to be let through barriers & pay onboard.

The Grand Central and Hull Trains websites both say that anyone wanting to get tickets on board should tell the gateline staff and they will let them through.

 

[blacknight]

Given the signs at KGX say you can buy a ticket on board these services it would seem to invite confusion if barrier staff were then not to let you through.

Catch 22 you are still welcome to buy onboard but you need at ticket to get through gates should make for a good stand off. Can it be taken on trust that passenger let through gates actually boards open access operator & not try to sneak on to EC service. If gates are in place then they should be used otherwise what is the point of them? maybe Hull Trains & GC need to update their posters to reflect changes taking place

 

[Greenback]

The big question - what are the barriers for? It's because DafT like them and they don't understand how the railway works.

I am sure that there are no legal grounds at all for preventing a passenger's acces to a platform when they sya they are travelling on a GC or HT service and wish to buy their ticket on board the train. I would be amazed if anyone encountered difficulties in this sort of situation, even given the lack of training shown by many barrier staff.

 

[blacknight]

The Grand Central and Hull Trains websites both say that anyone wanting to get tickets on board should tell the gateline staff and they will let them through.

DfT needs to have a word with open access operators like GC & get websites updated & not make promises they cannot keep, you may wish to buy but see rule1 still applies you need a valid ticket to get through gates maybe GC should put member of staff with mobile ticket issuing machine to supply tickets to GC passengers.
Having now read HT press release it actually refers to passengers collecting tickets for HT service & to have booking reference confirmation details to show gateline staff, no mention of allowing other passengers through to buy on board.

Grantham is gated station be interesting to see if you would be allowed through gates there for Hull Trains service as TVMs sell HT tickets.

 

[Deerfold]

DfT needs to have a word with open access operators & get websites updated & not make promises they cannot keep. Having now read HT press release it actually refers to passengers collecting tickets for HT service & to have confirmation details to show gateline staff, no mention of allowing other passengers through to buy on board.

Grantham is gated station be interesting to see if you would be allowed through gates there for Hull Trains service as TVMs sell HT tickets.

I'm not sure how Grantham is any different. Ticket offices sell Hull Trains tickets but HT also offer the ability to purchase on the train - I'm not sure why you think they're not allowed to do that. Do you know of staff being told not to allow this? - If they are they need to change the screens at KGX that tell people they can buy them on board.

GC do explicitly say you'll be allowed through: http://www.grandcentralrail.co.uk/kings-cross-gating

 

[jon0844]

I doubt that any staff at KGX will refuse someone access to a GC or HT service. As I said, they might make sure that they don't do so until the train has been announced as being in service, with a platform (so merely seeing it sitting there on a platform won't let you through).

That makes sense anyway, as EC tries to keep people on the concourse to allow staff time to clean and prepare the train for the next journey.

We've already established that a KGX to FPK ticket will get you through the gates, but as long as EC don't cease doing checks onboard, there's no real problem.. and if someone was silly enough to show a ticket to Finsbury Park, I'd expect them to be done for obvious fare evasion.

 

[blacknight]

The big question - what are the barriers for? It's because DafT like them and they don't understand how the railway works.

I am sure that there are no legal grounds at all for preventing a passenger's acces to a platform when they sya they are travelling on a GC or HT service and wish to buy their ticket on board the train. I would be amazed if anyone encountered difficulties in this sort of situation, even given the lack of training shown by many barrier staff.

Since when have passengers had rights there are railway byelaws to comply with such as having a valid ticket for travel "I am going to buy onboard" sounds as valid a reason as I have left my ticket on train just maybe the are fibbing & going to scank a freebie trip to remove any doubt apply Rule1 go buy a ticket.

 

[Deerfold]

Since when have passengers had rights there are railway byelaws to comply with such as having a valid ticket for travel "I am going to buy onboard" sounds as valid a reason as I have left my ticket on train just maybe the are fibbing & going to scank a freebie trip to remove any doubt apply Rule1 go buy a ticket.

But do you have any reaon to believe that staff will not let people through?

 

[Greenback]

Since when have passengers had rights there are railway byelaws to comply with such as having a valid ticket for travel "I am going to buy onboard" sounds as valid a reason as I have left my ticket on train just maybe the are fibbing & going to scank a freebie trip to remove any doubt apply Rule1 go buy a ticket.

I do hope you are not on the barrier line at Kings Cross! Your confrontational and accusatory attitude will cause a lot of trouble!

 

[blacknight]

I do hope you are not on the barrier line at Kings Cross! Your confrontational and accusatory attitude will cause a lot of trouble!

Gateline staff IMO are to be employed to defend & drive up revenue whilst cutting down on ticketless travel not make friends with the enemy Have to go in hardline or if to soft & you will just get walked over. I am more than happy to be reported for doing job correctly without fear or favour no point having rules & restrictions if not prepared to enforce them.
If you were in queue waiting to put ticket in gates how would feel if you saw passengers being given "special treatment" & being let freely through, not best chuffed me thinks.

 

[Deerfold]

Gateline staff IMO are to be employed to defend & drive up revenue whilst cutting down on ticketless travel not make friends with the enemy Have to go in hardline or if to soft & you will just get walked over

I suspect they have to do what their managers tell them too - we don't have any evidence so far to say they're being told not to let people travelling with GC or HT through.

 

[blacknight]

I'm not sure how Grantham is any different. Ticket offices sell Hull Trains tickets but HT also offer the ability to purchase on the train - I'm not sure why you think they're not allowed to do that.
GC do explicitly say you'll be allowed through: http://www.grandcentralrail.co.uk/kings-cross-gating

Have no problem with HT & GC selling full range of tickets onboard but at a gated station passenger as no right to demand to be let through to buy onboard, that just encourages ticketless travel as everyone will say that to avoid buying a ticket so Rule1 applies go buy a ticket.

 

[Deerfold]

Have no problem with HT & GC selling full range of tickets onboard but at a gated station passenger as no right to demand to be let through to buy onboard, that just encourages ticketless travel as everyone will say that to avoid buying a ticket so Rule1 applies go buy a ticket.

You keep saying that but as staff don't seem to tell people that and you're not providing any evidence that this is likely to change it doesn't seem to be a problem.

 

[blacknight]

You keep saying that but as staff don't seem to tell people that and you're not providing any evidence that this is likely to change it doesn't seem to be a problem.

If you go to EC website ticketless access to platforms is at station managers discretion not GC or any other operator, Hull Trains website only mentions passengers collecting tickets with regards to passengers being let through gates at Kings Cross, so by implication they dont have aproblem with their walk up passengers having buying a ticket prior to travelhttp://www.hulltrains.co.uk/latestnews.php.

 

[Tom B]

If you go to EC website ticketless access to platforms is at station managers discretion not GC or any other operator, Hull Trains website only mentions passengers collecting tickets with regards to passengers being let through gates at Kings Cross, so by implication they dont have aproblem with their walk up passengers having buying a ticket prior to travel.

Given that Kings Cross is a Network Rail station, what does EC have to do with the price of bacon?

It's pleasing to note that the barriers seem to be working efficiently and preventing invalid tickets (!). I did write to East Coast, and despite specifically asking several questions got a completely generic reply.

 

[blacknight]

Given that Kings Cross is a Network Rail station, what does EC have to do with the price of bacon?

It's pleasing to note that the barriers seem to be working efficiently and preventing invalid tickets (!). I did write to East Coast, and despite specifically asking several questions got a completely generic reply.

If Kings Cross is a network rail station why are you writting to East Coast about gate performance, surely it should by your logic be directed to NR?
As it as been previously stated in post gates have to be set to accept all tickets for a period of time, once that period as passed be prepared for invalid tickets to be rejected.
I hope they gave you answer to your enquiry on price of bacon in their reply