New automatic ticket gates at King’s Cross

[jon0844]

In my case, with my season, it is error 116 which is invalid origin or destination.

I didn't see the error she had at WGC, or indeed mine as I had bought an extension. Knew I should have checked immediately after we were manually let through!

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

 

[philjo]

I get the same error code at WGC when trying to use a Potters Bar-Letchworth annual season. It works at all other gated stations where it is valid.

 

[jon0844]

It seems like it's all hands on deck at KGX, with gateline staff from Potters Bar (and maybe other stations?) sent down to man the gates from 0-5. I'm also told that there will be no gate operation at Potters Bar all of next week either.

Either FCC is short staffed, or they're having problems on the gates. Given EC staff them too I suppose the unions should be happy that it could potentially create a few more jobs.

 

[Fred26]

Should be just East Coast RPIs manning the new KGX gateline.

 

[somebloke]

Has anyone experienced the gates in use yet?

Used both ways, peak time, last Friday. Leeds trains.

Getting out in the morning not too much problem, apart from initial suprise - ticket was resonably close to hand for onward tube travel anyway.

Back in the evening shows how bad the layout / design is.

- no signage (that I saw) coming up from tube or 9-11 to indicate you can't get through to 0-5 anymore. Find way blocked by fencing and have to retrace steps

- choice of routes to 0-5 is now fight your way through/across the melee in front of the departures board or go right round the back along the shops

- EastCoast info page on the gates states that they are designed to ensure "no delay" for passengers with pushchairs, wheelchairs and large luggage - which is a laughable claim given the route you are now forced to use. Jet powered wheelchair with cow-catcher on the front, maybe, but anyone else in those categories is stuffed.

- I think it cost me 2-3 mins extra to fight through the crowd, lightly loaded. Turned what should have been a comfortable walk into a run for the train

- EastCoast page also states that once through the barriers you can't go back. The gates serve multiple platforms, so presumably can't close before departure, so if you do go through and just miss a train... then it looks like you are stuck waiting for next departure. Waiting, as far as I can see, with absolutely no facilities (no toilets, no catering, not even sure there's any seats). Clearly well thought through...:roll:

- on-train ticket checks appeared to happen exactly as they used to.


Overall, appalling piece of design, can't see how it improves the passenger experience at all. Connecting through KX at peak was never what you'd call fun, but this has made it a whole lot worse.

Not wishing to be completely negative, EastCoast do state that I will no longer be "subsidising" the fare-dodgers, so I'll look forward to not paying the subsidiy part of the ticket price in future. Not exactly holding my breath though...

 

[amcluesent]

Gates open tonight at rush hour. These are disasterous without the new concourse being anything like ready. Health and Safety should be reviewing the situations of EC 'kettling' passengers.

 

[Fred26]

Used both ways, peak time, last Friday. Leeds trains.

Getting out in the morning not too much problem, apart from initial suprise - ticket was resonably close to hand for onward tube travel anyway.

Back in the evening shows how bad the layout / design is.

- no signage (that I saw) coming up from tube or 9-11 to indicate you can't get through to 0-5 anymore. Find way blocked by fencing and have to retrace steps

It must have been horrific to walk around... that fence hardly appears out of nowhere. You'd have seen it before reaching it.

- choice of routes to 0-5 is now fight your way through/across the melee in front of the departures board or go right round the back along the shops

- EastCoast info page on the gates states that they are designed to ensure "no delay" for passengers with pushchairs, wheelchairs and large luggage - which is a laughable claim given the route you are now forced to use. Jet powered wheelchair with cow-catcher on the front, maybe, but anyone else in those categories is stuffed.

- I think it cost me 2-3 mins extra to fight through the crowd, lightly loaded. Turned what should have been a comfortable walk into a run for the train

- EastCoast page also states that once through the barriers you can't go back. The gates serve multiple platforms, so presumably can't close before departure, so if you do go through and just miss a train... then it looks like you are stuck waiting for next departure. Waiting, as far as I can see, with absolutely no facilities (no toilets, no catering, not even sure there's any seats). Clearly well thought through...:roll:

As I'm sure you are well aware, the TOC cannot hold you prisoner. If you have gone onto the platform and want to go back, just ask to be let back through. I haven't read their website, however, I would assume they mean that once you put your ticket through, it won't be accepted back the other way, or some such. To suggest you'd be made to stand there like a lemon is hilarious. The Daily Mail would be proud of that.

- on-train ticket checks appeared to happen exactly as they used to.


Overall, appalling piece of design, can't see how it improves the passenger experience at all. Connecting through KX at peak was never what you'd call fun, but this has made it a whole lot worse.

Of course it's going to make things worse, at the moment, at least. Once the redevelopment is completed, the station will be far larger and the problems that persist now, won't then. I don't know why they've bothered putting in the barriers so early. I wouldn't have bothered until the station was finished, but there you go.

Not wishing to be completely negative, EastCoast do state that I will no longer be "subsidising" the fare-dodgers, so I'll look forward to not paying the subsidiy part of the ticket price in future. Not exactly holding my breath though...

I saw the barriers in operation yesterday. It was quite though and I'm keen on them, so I'm biased. There were loads of RPIs around though and there's loads of space from the platforms to walk along the entire row of gates. I didn't think they'd be that generous with the space.

 

[stut]

Had my first experience of them last night's rush hour, when a PBO unexpectedly went from platform 2, just as an EC service arrived on platform 0.

What a complete and utter mess. How this can remotely be considered a positive move by anybody who has the misfortune to have to commute on this line is beyond me.

 

[somebloke]

It must have been horrific to walk around...

Walking round the departure board isn't the problem, walking through the crush of people in front of it is. It never used to be a problem to get across the platforms in a rush from a late/slow/broken tube, now it is.

that fence hardly appears out of nowhere. You'd have seen it before reaching it.

If not for the similarly confused people in front of it, maybe. My experience was that by the time you've seen it, and realised that it doesn't have a gate in it, you've already gone the wrong way.

As I'm sure you are well aware, the TOC cannot hold you prisoner. If you have gone onto the platform and want to go back, just ask to be let back through. I haven't read their website, however, I would assume they mean that once you put your ticket through, it won't be accepted back the other way, or some such.

To quote east coast:

"3.Once you have passed through the gates, there will be no return."

Seems pretty clear. That's the way they claim to have designed it - no going back from the platforms, and no facilities platform-side.

 

[Fred26]

I'd love to see them enforce that What a load of twaddle (from them).

 

[jon0844]

Should be just East Coast RPIs manning the new KGX gateline.

But it isn't. There are FCC staff there too, having been taken away from other stations.

I was on a train where someone had got on the train at Potters Bar, kept looking around throughout, and then walked around from platform 9 to 8. My guess is he didn't have a ticket! FCC will need to get more staff rather than move them from other locations.

To quote east coast:

"3.Once you have passed through the gates, there will be no return."

Seems pretty clear. That's the way they claim to have designed it - no going back from the platforms, and no facilities platform-side.

They presumably mean your ticket may not operate the gate back the other way, but they are fully manned (each section) so you can simply ask to go back.

You can even do this at an airport once you've gone airside so it's really no big deal and I wouldn't read what they say too literally.

 

[Deerfold]

Gates open tonight at rush hour. These are disasterous without the new concourse being anything like ready. Health and Safety should be reviewing the situations of EC 'kettling' passengers.

It was horrendous last Thursday when there were no trains for over two hours (signal failure Finsbury Park). when they finally let people through they opened the gates but not all of them, so although we'd been queuing reasonably well suddenly those at the front were having to move right about 20 metres to get through gates at the same time as those behind the gate were moving forward. That wasn't fun with a suitcase. Not great for passenger information either - certainly in the first hour there was nothing on the screen other than a list of cancelled trains (surely the bit that warns on the departure board of slippery platforms could say there'd been a signal failure). Only heard two audible announcements in 135 minutes about what the problem was...I understand they probably can't speed up fixing a problem but *some* information would be good - perhaps a "we expect to fix this problem today/don't expect to" and I could know to try and find somewhere to stay/alternate way to travel.

 

[jon0844]

They're replacing overhead wires just north of Finsbury Park station (well, they were when I went by last Sunday) and there have been signalling problems along the ECML for weeks.

I think I get messages warning of potential problems almost daily (not this week mind you, which is typical as I'm in Barcelona!) - but, thanks to FCC, they come through about 2-3 hours late.

When there are any problems, King's Cross fills up fast and the departure boards obviously make everyone stand in front of them - but now you have no choice but to walk through the crowd (or go outside the station and back in around the side) to get to platforms 0-5.. or indeed, to get from the side entrance (e.g. the first class lounge) to any other platform.

I think they need to create a fenced off area in front of the boards for people to walk through as a diversion around the gates, keeping the people standing further back to look at the train information (or lack of, because as mentioned the information board usually shows nothing but standard information).

 

[DarloRich]

I understand the HRH The Queen used the barriers without trouble the other day!

 

[Deerfold]

I understand the HRH The Queen used the barriers without trouble the other day!

There were all open that morning (see earlier in the thread).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When there are any problems, King's Cross fills up fast and the departure boards obviously make everyone stand in front of them - but now you have no choice but to walk through the crowd (or go outside the station and back in around the side) to get to platforms 0-5.. or indeed, to get from the side entrance (e.g. the first class lounge) to any other platform.

Indeed - it doesn't help that coming from York Way past 0-5 you can see no departure information until you've past all the platforms (or have very good eyesight and can see the screens at the ends of the platforms) - people then have a tendancy to reverse suddenly back to the platforms.

 

[DarloRich]

oh - i had visions of her ticket not workingt he barrier, causing much tutting! Then being questioned by staff as to WHY the ticket didnt work!

 

[Aictos]

There were all open that morning (see earlier in the thread).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Indeed - it doesn't help that coming from York Way past 0-5 you can see no departure information until you've past all the platforms (or have very good eyesight and can see the screens at the ends of the platforms) - people then have a tendancy to reverse suddenly back to the platforms.

Are you sure on that, I'm sure there's a screen straight in front of you as you come in from the York Road entrance, it's about 22" or so.

 

[amcluesent]

The certainty of a huge crush of peeps in the concourse at peak hours is an obvious terrorist target, Mumbai style. I'm surprised that hasn't been factored into decisions.

 

[jon0844]

What train station doesn't have an area where loads of people congregate at peak times?

It's usually only that bad when there's any disruption and I think we must all remember that the station is a building site at the moment. Eventually nobody will be there at all, and you'll be able to get to the platforms from further down too (as well as congregating in a new area not yet built).

 

[Fred26]

The certainty of a huge crush of peeps in the concourse at peak hours is an obvious terrorist target, Mumbai style. I'm surprised that hasn't been factored into decisions.

'Peeps'? :roll:

Terrorist attacks are extremely unlikely. So unlikely, in fact, that it's hardly a concern.
Based on that post, there aren't many places in central London that aren't 'obvious terrorist targets', let alone the rest of the country.

Jon, like I say, it should just be EastCoast staff manning these barriers. At least that is what we, as FCC staff were told. FCC are recruiting more RPIs/RCOs for their gatelines, but I believe these are internal only at the moment.

 

[Deerfold]

Are you sure on that, I'm sure there's a screen straight in front of you as you come in from the York Road entrance, it's about 22" or so.

Quite sure. I know there used to be but it wasn't there last night.

 

[blacknight]

Either FCC is short staffed, or they're having problems on the gates. Given EC staff them too I suppose the unions should be happy that it could potentially create a few more jobs.

EC have a tendancy to use agency staff on gatelines at stations but have kitted out in EC uniform, so unions not quite so happy as you think.

 

[jon0844]

I didn't know that. However, I do know (from personal experience) that agency staff can be pretty useless and EC can't afford to have useless staff manning the gates or there will be even bigger problems.

I've had problems at Paddington and I believe the staff there are a private firm (G4S?) and they're rude and have caused problems for me and my wife (and, for the record, we both had perfectly valid tickets).

 

[blacknight]

I didn't know that. However, I do know (from personal experience) that agency staff can be pretty useless and EC can't afford to have useless staff manning the gates or there will be even bigger problems.

A false flag operation natural to assume if some is dressed in EC uniform they are employed by EC, it used to be an offence to wear uniform if not employed by company but not anymore. Agency staff are like any other employees some good some bad just remember they take all the grief for none of the perks
From a business point they can afford it as it keeps costs down, so if operator decided to remove tickets they would not have to pay redundancy & the like. Also agency staff can be kept keen & mean with golden carrot of being taken on by EC.

 

[Deerfold]

Very congested in yesterday's evening peak - so it was like going through the barriers at Leeds (wave something and the gates are opened by the staff). No on-board ticket check by Leeds.

 

[amcluesent]

I see they've pulled the two rows of bench seats in the concourse 2m further apart to try an ease passenger movement. What a hopeless effort, this must becoming obvious even to the elite EC managers.

 

[Failed Unit]

I see they've pulled the two rows of bench seats in the concourse 2m further apart to try an ease passenger movement. What a hopeless effort, this must becoming obvious even to the elite EC managers.

I don't think they will ever admit that it was the wrong thing to do and take them out, but we can hope.

Maybe the should have waited until the station work was complete and more space was created.

It would be interesting to know how much revenue they are really protected from both operators. EC I suspect very little and FCC probably quite a lot, but considering the majority of thier services use 9, 10 & 11 maybe not...

 

[Deerfold]

Travelled from Stevenage to Kings X this evening (with a valid ticket). Gates open both ends.

 

[Fred26]

Travelled from Stevenage to Kings X this evening (with a valid ticket). Gates open both ends.

Were there barrier staff about?

It really infuriates me when gates are left open. I can see the sense in not staffing Welwyn Garden City gateline, from first to last train, but Kings Cross? Should be staffed all day.

 

[Failed Unit]

Were there barrier staff about?

It really infuriates me when gates are left open. I can see the sense in not staffing Welwyn Garden City gateline, from first to last train, but Kings Cross? Should be staffed all day.

Definately, I know people that never buy tickets for the last FCC services as they know they won't get caught. At least you will stop the very drunk from boarding the trains. I know they will just use the tube to board at Finsbury Park but considering the TOCs aledge the gates will cut down on ticketless travel and anti-social behaviour why don't the use them when both are at the highest rather than delaying legitimate east coast passengers!