Network Rail RMT dispute settled.

[The Planner]

It's what people in officialdom do when they don't want to consider other people's pov, pretend they speak for everyone.

What brand of tin foil do you use? need to buy some shares.

 

[Krokodil]

Bar the most extortionate fares it is now pretty reasonable to go just about anywhere. When it was Anytime only it was a bit painful at times but now it's a great perk.

Have you seen the differential between Anytime and Off Peak between Manchester and London? A Priv Anytime Return (such as used to be the only ticket permitted) was barely any cheaper than a public Off Peak Return. If you were eligible for a railcard (16-25, Senior, Two Together or whatever) then it would have been considerably cheaper to use that than a Staff Leisure Card.

 

[Fleetmaster]

Good for the lowest grades, who had a valid claim for insane short term cost of living pressures. Probably didn't need a full strike for that though, just a reasonable union not looking for all out war.

Securing above offer rises of just 1% or 2% on median pay with inflation running at double digits, and losing 10% of your membership in the process, is categorically a resounding defeat, given Mick had clearly been seeking an all out war.

 

[mrmartin]

So a bit rubbish really, especially given the tendency over the last decade to make InterCity flexible tickets effectively a distress purchase, with advance tickets being the only way to travel for a reasonable price?

Wouldn't say that's the case at all. 75% off all (super) off peaks makes everywhere extremely cheap to visit. Also, advance allocations at least whenever I look are not great value these days unless you want to travel in the peaks. GWR is often more expensive on advances than a super off peak return (as they offer 10p off the normal fare for a lot of tickets). Don't know how you could class it as a bit rubbish at all!

 

[bazzarati]

What brand of tin foil do you use? need to buy some shares.

Aldi's own. Who's balloon juice do you buy, if you don't mind me asking? It'll be government approved no doubt ...

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Wouldn't say that's the case at all. 75% off all (super) off peaks makes everywhere extremely cheap to visit. Also, advance allocations at least whenever I look are not great value these days unless you want to travel in the peaks. GWR is often more expensive on advances than a super off peak return (as they offer 10p off the normal fare for a lot of tickets). Don't know how you could class it as a bit rubbish at all!

Also, even with a staff leisure card, you can use split ticketing to make your journey considerably cheaper. For example, with a staff leisure card a Sheffield to Hereford Off Peak Return is £24.15 but if you're just going for a day, a couple of splits brings it down to £12.35.

 

[Horizon22]

Well, a railcard doesn't imply you're a member of staff.

And there are other forms of ID that a member of staff has which clearly identifies them.

 

[Goldfish62]

So in other words, it is not accurate to say that this deal means that the RMT are accepting changes to working practices?

Who has been saying that the RMT are accepting changes to working practices? That was not part of the deal that NR put forward to the RMT which was voted on and accepted. Surely that's easy to understand.

 

[Starmill]

And there are other forms of ID that a member of staff has which clearly identifies them.

I'm not sure anyone was saying there weren't? They're not valid for travel though, unless there's an appropriate duty pass and the person is at work, and wouldn't be mistaken for something which is.

 

[Horizon22]

I'm not sure anyone was saying there weren't? They're not valid for travel though, unless there's an appropriate duty pass and the person is at work, and wouldn't be mistaken for something which is.

Yes indeed. But that is the same for all railway staff; ID is not a valid travel pass. I'm not sure what the original concern was now.

 

[43066]

Network Rail boss compares year of strikes to Iraq war

Andrew Haines says ‘warfare’ with workers is over but bosses need to ‘build the peace’

www.theguardian.com

The boss of Network Rail has compared the past year of train strikes to the Iraq war, saying rail leaders need to “build the peace” with workers in a way that British and US victors over Saddam Hussein failed to do.

Andrew Haines, the chief executive of the body responsible for Britain’s railway infrastructure, said the “warfare” was over but the lessons of Iraq were “ringing in his ears”.

I’m not entirely sure how appropriate this analogy is, but it’s an interesting one nonetheless!

 

[bazzarati]

Network Rail boss compares year of strikes to Iraq war

Andrew Haines says ‘warfare’ with workers is over but bosses need to ‘build the peace’

www.theguardian.com

I’m not entirely sure how appropriate this analogy is, but it’s an interesting one nonetheless!

These people are so out of touch he wouldn't understand that he and his management minions are universally despised & responsible for most of the Ill feelings. The senior management are *&£#@ taking home huge payrises and telling staff to make do with trinkets. They have not a clue how much staff put into the railway for so long for no reward only to be treated like crap. People won't be lifting a finger any longer. We work to rule regardless and the company can get stuffed

 

[Starmill]

Yes indeed. But that is the same for all railway staff; ID is not a valid travel pass. I'm not sure what the original concern was now.

It's a perceived concern that the discount authority could be used to gain free travel (and potentially an actual concern in the case of some services such as Tramlink).

 

[Fleetmaster]

Isn't work to rule quite literally the job description of any NR role?

 

[bazzarati]

Isn't work to rule quite literally the job description of any NR role?

Quite the opposite. Signallers don't even have a job description

 

[coppercapped]

But on the flip side we have the NHS here which means you don’t need private health insurance unlike those other European Countries you mention.

Oh dear, not this old myth again. One day people will find out how these things work before rushing to print.

I have lived and worked in three European countries and paid into and used their sickness insurance schemes; in my experience the systems in all three countries worked faster and more efficiently than the NHS.

In Germany there are a range of companies offering sickness insurance, one can choose which one best suits one's own circumstances. The companies are all 'not for dividend' and the upper limit of the subscriptions is set by law and there can be no variation of the subscriptions depending on a person's medical history.

In the other two countries the sickness insurance is offered by 'mutuelles', essentially co-operatives operating in a 'not for dividend' structure.

Personally I would choose any of the European systems over the NHS if I wanted to be well looked after.

I would suspect shuffling it around to adopt European Model of pay more for health but subsidise transport is unlikely to be a popular policy.

 

[High Dyke]

Quite the opposite. Signallers don't even have a job description

Not yet.

And there are other forms of ID that a member of staff has which clearly identifies them.

Not all staff have ID cards, especially many signallers.

 

[43066]

Personally I would choose any of the European systems over the NHS if I wanted to be well looked after.

Anyone with any sense would, but in this country we just bang pots and pump ever more money into the failing monolith that is the NHS.

 

[Annetts key]

For NR staff with the new travel facilities, the usual routine is to have the ticket on your phone. At least that’s what everyone (and I mean everyone) I know who has this facility does. You must get your ticket on line, therefore it seems a bit odd that you’d then want to collect the ticket from a ticket office or machine.

‘Tis funny, because the majority of railway tickets bought for me for travel on the U.K. railway by my employer (part of the railway) are card types that have to be collected at a station…

 

[Horizon22]

Not yet.

Not all staff have ID cards, especially many signallers.

Really? How do they prove they work for the company considering many are in secure locations?

 

[Annetts key]

Network Rail boss compares year of strikes to Iraq war

Andrew Haines says ‘warfare’ with workers is over but bosses need to ‘build the peace’

www.theguardian.com

I’m not entirely sure how appropriate this analogy is, but it’s an interesting one nonetheless!

Unfortunately the war is not over. Yes, one battle has ended. But there is still modernising maintenance, which even if Network Rail proceed with, is far from certain will actually work the way they think it will.

Plus, after voluntary severance/redundancy has concluded, how many Network Rail staff will just leave anyway. If you have an organisation that is planned to run on a skeleton crew, and then more staff leave…

Plus, I foresee a possibility of some disputes over annual leave not being granted popping up, as managers struggle to find cover when staff want time off.

And of course, the RMT dispute with the TOCs is currently still ongoing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Mar 2023 ==

Isn't work to rule quite literally the job description of any NR role?

The job descriptions are so vague and woolly that they are not worth the paper they are written on. And yes, everyone should work according to the rules and standards. But unfortunately someone forgot to actually tell some of the management that. Hence them getting annoyed when you point out that something can’t be done because of X, Y and Z…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Mar 2023 ==

Really? How do they prove they work for the company considering many are in secure locations?

Don’t know, it’s kinda not the thing mere mortals ask signallers

Staff who have duties on or near the line only get a Sentinel card. But in order to see if it is valid, the Sentinel app is needed. But you need to have a log in for this first…

And I’ve been in plenty of err, secure locations.

 

[High Dyke]

Really? How do they prove they work for the company considering many are in secure locations?

That's been a point of discussion for quite a while. My own local management decided to issue them, but it's not a national thing.

 

[RPI]

As if we needed any more complexity in staff ticketing arrangements!

I even had an RPI try to suggest my RST Season Smartcard wasn’t valid for travel the other day. I realise they’re new, but that’s hardly ideal.

Adding more permutations will only make this kind of thing more likely.

I keep having guards thinking that mine is a status pass

 

[Horizon22]

That's been a point of discussion for quite a while. My own local management decided to issue them, but it's not a national thing.

I have to say that's shocking for an organisation of Network Rail's size and given the security nature of many locations and work content. I assumed it was a universal thing that was rolled out years ago like all TOCs!

 

[YorkshireBear]

You can either have A TOD code or a e ticket

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Mar 2023 ==


yeah it is so rubbish it makes going to the football something I can decide to do the night before rather than plotting games weeks in advance and buying 57 different ticket combinations to make the journey.


*cough* - I get mine from the machine at my local station. That suits me. It also means i dont have to carry my work phone out of hours.

Short notice/short distance i will use an e ticket.

You don't have to carry your work phone anyway, I have my account set to my personal Hotmail address so I can do it all via my personal phone and email address. Just FYI, not suggesting it will change what you do!

 

[The Puddock]

I have to say that's shocking for an organisation of Network Rail's size and given the security nature of many locations and work content. I assumed it was a universal thing that was rolled out years ago like all TOCs!

In the Railtrack and early NR years, signallers and other roles carrying out safety critical work were issued with a Safety Critical Work ID card (commonly called a "squid card") which was supposed to be carried at all times when on duty. The requirement for this was withdrawn getting on for about 15 years ago, which I think was due to a change of health and safety legislation.

These days there is no national Network Rail ID card scheme, only the Sentinel cards for those who hold track competencies and local initiatives for example at managed stations, large offices and Area Signalling Centres and ROCs. Signallers at most smaller boxes aren't issued with any type of company ID at all. I would have thought that in today's security climate it would be something ORR and DfT TranSec would be more concerned about but they don't seem bothered at all.

It's crazy because all signallers are allocated a Sentinel record and number (though most of them don't realise this because it's not something that is ever used) so it wouldn't be hard to issue them with a Sentinel card. That said these cards specifically say on the back that they are not valid as an ID - 'go figure' as the Americans say.

 

[alxndr]

That's been a point of discussion for quite a while. My own local management decided to issue them, but it's not a national thing.

And this makes the ones that are locally issued far less secure than if there was a national standard. I never used to have an ID card at all, just a Sentinel card and a gate fob, but even now I have one I only know what my area’s cards look like. If you showed me your card I’d have no idea if it was genuine or not as they probably don’t look the same, and vice versa is probably also true. Mine certainly doesn’t look very official with typing errors on the reverse!

 

[falcon]

Oh dear, not this old myth again. One day people will find out how these things work before rushing to print.

I have lived and worked in three European countries and paid into and used their sickness insurance schemes; in my experience the systems in all three countries worked faster and more efficiently than the NHS.

In Germany there are a range of companies offering sickness insurance, one can choose which one best suits one's own circumstances. The companies are all 'not for dividend' and the upper limit of the subscriptions is set by law and there can be no variation of the subscriptions depending on a person's medical history.

In the other two countries the sickness insurance is offered by 'mutuelles', essentially co-operatives operating in a 'not for dividend' structure.

Personally I would choose any of the European systems over the NHS if I wanted to be well looked after.

What were the other two Countries please?

 

[Cowley]

Well, we seem to be drifting a fair bit here and now that there’s been a settlement this feels like a good time to wrap things up.

Thanks for your contributions everyone.