National Service

[Greenback]

And when they decide they don't want to do it? What do you do then?

They will be shot, of course

 

[passmore]

:rofl:

 

[Drsatan]

I think adopting national service would be a step backwards given that most NATO nations except Turkey, Greece and Denmark retain National Service. National Service is now considered obsolete given the way in which warfare is becoming 'computerised'; it is no longer essential to have a large standing army in case of invasion.

Even Russia is contemplating phasing out conscription given that lots of generals are privately opposed to conscription due to the poor quality of conscripts, according to this article and others.

 

[SS4]

Does anyone remember the tv program 'bad lads army'. Essentially they took minor criminals or people who probably would become minor criminals if they kept on going. And put then in a 1950's army environment. It generally seemed to work for them.

Maybe we could have some sort of duke of Edinburgh award scheme, say 6 weeks of 'basic training'. Or have schools offer a week long residential every year for those who are interested?

Indeed I do (wasn't the original series simply "Lads Army"?), it was a good program although I'm not sure how it would scale up to a national level.
I'm also unsure about where the money would come from, especially if you wanted to offer a week long residential scheme to schools.

 

[WestCoast]

Not directly related, but my school had a compulsory (for 2 years) Combined Cadet Force (Army and RAF), which "trained" every Thursday Afternoon. After that, you could progress up the ranks to become a Non Commissioned Officer, teaching basic skills (drills, weapons training, camo & concealment, leadership, cooking e.t.c) to the younger pupils.

We had a sergeant who waved a stick about, who terrified the crap out of everybody, even the "tough" ones. Some people did hate it but it was quite good for discipline, since being shouted out by a sergeant is a lot more scary than a teacher!

 

[90019]

Not directly related, but my school had a compulsory (for 2 years) Combined Cadet Force (Army and RAF), which "trained" every Thursday Afternoon. After that, you could progress up the ranks to become a Non Commissioned Officer, teaching basic skills (drills, weapons training, camo & concealment, leadership, cooking e.t.c) to the younger pupils.

We had that at my school, but only compulsory for a year.
It was nice, because all the guys who were determined to prove how tough and manly they were (mostly the fairly thick ones) along with those who wanted to look cool, all went for the Army, meaning there were only a few of us who went for the RAF (IIRC, there were 18 of us who went for the RAF, and about 350ish who went for the army).
That meant we were able to learn how to do things like marching properly much quicker than they could, so had done that within a couple of weeks and moved onto more interesting things, whilst they were still crap at marching by the end of the year
We did all the same stuff as them, but we also had the opportunity to go flying as well.
The fact the RAF was smaller also meant we got to go to the easter and summer camps that we wanted to, whilst they went to the ones they were told to

Basically, those who went for the RAF had a much better and more enjoyable time of it than the ones who went for the Army did.

 

[Hydro]

I went to a school that had an Army section CCF, that was moderately popular. It was fairly well funded, and we had our own shooting range. It attracted the usual mob of kids wanting to play around with guns to start with, and they left after about 4 weeks when they realised there was more to it than that, and that they wouldn't be let near a weapon unless they became more mature and disciplined. It was well supervised by the local Army training team who provided us with fantastic opportunities to have decent summer camps, adventure training, weekend exercises and Army experience days for those interested in a regular or reserve Army career. It certainly led to me joining the TA, and through them I worked more or less full time in uniform after I completed my college courses.

The whole experience taught a great deal of self discipline and self reliance. I caught the bug for competitive shooting there, which I carried on into the Army at national level. I shot, climbed, tabbed, ran, travelled, got soaked, got tanned, camped, ate and did what bears tend to do in the woods.

It wasn't for everyone though. The point was it was beneficial to those who wanted to be there. The best fun came at the end of school when I was a senior pupil, and I and my friends became the senior cadets. We helped train the younger cadets, organise the trips and camps, assisted the training team and became the NCO cadre that ran the company on the evenings and weekends. We took inordinate pride in having the responsibility entrusted to us. I became a S/Sgt, and one of two qualified to use the Light Support Weapon (at the time, the only automatic weapon allowed to be used by cadets).

I don't think that someone press ganged into the environment would particularly have the same mindset as those of us who wanted to the best we could - because we were interested in it.

 

[SS4]

Not directly related, but my school had a compulsory (for 2 years) Combined Cadet Force (Army and RAF), which "trained" every Thursday Afternoon. After that, you could progress up the ranks to become a Non Commissioned Officer, teaching basic skills (drills, weapons training, camo & concealment, leadership, cooking e.t.c) to the younger pupils.

We had a sergeant who waved a stick about, who terrified the crap out of everybody, even the "tough" ones. Some people did hate it but it was quite good for discipline, since being shouted out by a sergeant is a lot more scary than a teacher!

We had that at my school, but only compulsory for a year.
It was nice, because all the guys who were determined to prove how tough and manly they were (mostly the fairly thick ones) along with those who wanted to look cool, all went for the Army, meaning there were only a few of us who went for the RAF (IIRC, there were 18 of us who went for the RAF, and about 350ish who went for the army).
That meant we were able to learn how to do things like marching properly much quicker than they could, so had done that within a couple of weeks and moved onto more interesting things, whilst they were still crap at marching by the end of the year
We did all the same stuff as them, but we also had the opportunity to go flying as well.
The fact the RAF was smaller also meant we got to go to the easter and summer camps that we wanted to, whilst they went to the ones they were told to

Basically, those who went for the RAF had a much better and more enjoyable time of it than the ones who went for the Army did.

I went to a school that had an Army section CCF, that was moderately popular. It was fairly well funded, and we had our own shooting range. It attracted the usual mob of kids wanting to play around with guns to start with, and they left after about 4 weeks when they realised there was more to it than that, and that they wouldn't be let near a weapon unless they became more mature and disciplined. It was well supervised by the local Army training team who provided us with fantastic opportunities to have decent summer camps, adventure training, weekend exercises and Army experience days for those interested in a regular or reserve Army career. It certainly led to me joining the TA, and through them I worked more or less full time in uniform after I completed my college courses.

The whole experience taught a great deal of self discipline and self reliance. I caught the bug for competitive shooting there, which I carried on into the Army at national level. I shot, climbed, tabbed, ran, travelled, got soaked, got tanned, camped, ate and did what bears tend to do in the woods.

It wasn't for everyone though. The point was it was beneficial to those who wanted to be there. The best fun came at the end of school when I was a senior pupil, and I and my friends became the senior cadets. We helped train the younger cadets, organise the trips and camps, assisted the training team and became the NCO cadre that ran the company on the evenings and weekends. We took inordinate pride in having the responsibility entrusted to us. I became a S/Sgt, and one of two qualified to use the Light Support Weapon (at the time, the only automatic weapon allowed to be used by cadets).

I don't think that someone press ganged into the environment would particularly have the same mindset as those of us who wanted to the best we could - because we were interested in it.

I think you three folks have hit the nail on the head. When you were at school there were such extracurricular activities but nowadays there is very little physical activity for children outside PE. I'd have loved to do such a thing as you people mention yet outside school hours only the football team was available which was full of what the Yanks call jocks.

 

[WestCoast]

I think you three folks have hit the nail on the head. When you were at school there were such extracurricular activities but nowadays there is very little physical activity for children outside PE. I'd have loved to do such a thing as you people mention yet outside school hours only the football team was available which was full of what the Yanks call jocks.

I'll admit that this was only last year, at a fee-paying Grammar School. A real financial struggle for my family, only really able to afford the fees because of bursaries and a scholarship discount, it meant cutbacks. Very traditional in its ways, compulsory Rugby training after-school for the first three years, with an abundance of all things extra-curricular.

Sadly, most schools aren't like that. Of course, there were some misbehaving fools there (what school doesn't have them?) but they faced real consequences for their actions.

 

[Hydro]

Mine was 10 years ago, and it too was a Grammar School, but Grant Maintained rather than fee paying. Still traditional, rugby school with bags of after school stuff to do.