National Routeing Guide update

[Andyjs247]

There isn't a "PlusBus" zone that covers Bicester, no. Instead, you've got two main add-ons:

• Bicester Village Bus (NLC H921) - This is the shuttle bus linking Bicester North station and Bicester Village outlet. Prices are £2.25 Single and £4.50 Return (50% Child discount)
• Bicester Taxibus (NLC J701) - This is the "commuter" bus link from Bicester North to the surrounding villages. £2.30 Single and £3.50 Return.

Meanwhile, at the other end of the line, Oxford Parkway is within the Oxford PlusBus area....

I was looking at the Chiltern Railways App yesterday. I was looking at fares from Bicester Village to Banbury. Normally you'd go from Bicester North direct but in the new timetable the service has been thinned in the off-peak so that at certain times it could be quicker to go via Oxford. The price of £8.60 is the same but I was surprised the journey planner came up with options via Oxford AND via Haddenham ( but did not suggest walking between the two stations or catching the shuttle bus). Is Bicester (Village) - Banbury really valid via Haddenham & Thame or Oxford as well as direct now?

 

[button_boxer]

I was looking at the Chiltern Railways App yesterday. I was looking at fares from Bicester Village to Banbury. Normally you'd go from Bicester North direct but in the new timetable the service has been thinned in the off-peak so that at certain times it could be quicker to go via Oxford. The price of £8.60 is the same but I was surprised the journey planner came up with options via Oxford AND via Haddenham ( but did not suggest walking between the two stations or catching the shuttle bus). Is Bicester (Village) - Banbury really valid via Haddenham & Thame or Oxford as well as direct now?

According to the routeing guide Bicester Town (it still calls it that) is associated with Banbury, Princes Risborough and Oxford RPs, which would suggest that only the shortest route should be valid unless there are easements. The question is what is the shortest route? The shortest wholly by rail at present would be via Haddenham (which is not doubling back in the railway definition as there are no other stations between the new chord and Haddenham), via Oxford is shorter according to this calculator but part of that is currently a bus link.

 

[kieron]

Try http://www.bukitlawang.com/routes/routes.aspx

Thanks. That site is useful, but it still means loading a web page up where I can check the important features of the maps on my own computer.

Not Via London is the only routeing on all fares between these two places so god knows what they were thinking.

It is, but Bletchley and Leicester each have lots of stations associated with them. Depending on which of these stations you look at, there are tickets available on a number of different routes.

via Oxford is shorter according to this calculator but part of that is currently a bus link.

I don't think that's quite correct. It doesn't show a route via Haddenham as there is no link programmed into it between the two lines of any length. That's why it also gives the shortest route between "Bicester Town" and Haddenham & Thame Parkway as being via Oxford.

Neither the rail timetable nor the supplement Chiltern provide gives a distance between these stations, so this may well be the correct thing to do.

 

[button_boxer]

I don't think that's quite correct. It doesn't show a route via Haddenham as there is no link programmed into it between the two lines of any length. That's why it also gives the shortest route between "Bicester Town" and Haddenham & Thame Parkway as being via Oxford.

Neither the rail timetable nor the supplement Chiltern provide gives a distance between these stations, so this may well be the correct thing to do.

I should have made it clearer that I noticed the calculator doesn't have a link for the new chord, so I faked it by adding the distance from Haddenham to Banbury and the distance from Bicester North to Haddenham, figuring that's pretty much the same as the distance from Town (sorry, Village) via the new link.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I should have made it clearer that I noticed the calculator doesn't have a link for the new chord, so I faked it by adding the distance from Haddenham to Banbury and the distance from Bicester North to Haddenham, figuring that's pretty much the same as the distance from Town (sorry, Village) via the new link.

For timetable (and hence Routeing Guide) purposes, Haddenham & Thame Parkway - Bicester Village/Town/London Road is the same distance as Haddenham & Thame Parkway - Bicester North. In reality, there's a chain or two in it, but nothing significant enough to affect the rounding for the NRT.

 

[Andyjs247]

Thanks all for the replies. Out of interest, is there a "Bicester Stations" group yet? When I went to Oxford on Sunday, my ticket was printed with "Bicester Village" as the origin.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Thanks all for the replies. Out of interest, is there a "Bicester Stations" group yet? When I went to Oxford on Sunday, my ticket was printed with "Bicester Village" as the origin.

There is, but it doesn't have any fares associated with it yet, presumably related to the different pricing structures between the two stations and the fact that Great Western still own most of the relevant flows.

 

[Hophead]

There isn't a "PlusBus" zone that covers Bicester, no. Instead, you've got two main add-ons:

• Bicester Village Bus (NLC H921) - This is the shuttle bus linking Bicester North station and Bicester Village outlet. Prices are £2.25 Single and £4.50 Return (50% Child discount)
• Bicester Taxibus (NLC J701) - This is the "commuter" bus link from Bicester North to the surrounding villages. £2.30 Single and £3.50 Return.

Meanwhile, at the other end of the line, Oxford Parkway is within the Oxford PlusBus area....

PlusBus validity there may be, but Chiltern are unable to sell you one online (nor are Southern who use the same booking engine). East Midlands Trains and South West Trains can sort you out, though.

 

[infobleep]

Anyway if staying more than a day Oxford's own 24 hour bus travel cards are better value than Plus bus. Not many other places I had thought where plus bus is worse though. It's usually better value.

 

[kieron]

Another update was released on Thursday.

New dataset RJRG0384 published 05 November 2015

Journeys between Birmingham and Manchester are being diverted via Rugeley and Stone on 27th and 28th December due to engineering works. As a result jouneys through the affected area are showing "off route at Stoke-on-Trent" in journey planners e.g. Macclesfield to Taunton. Investigations show that this is because the map sequences used did not include the link between Rugeley routeing point and Stoke on Trent routeing point. This has resulted in a review of the map sequences between Stoke on Trent and routeing points to Penzance, resulting in the following changes.​

The trains in question will reverse at Rugeley and Stafford on the way to Birmingham, and they have made it so the affected tickets are all valid that way. They're also valid that way as far as Nuneaton, where the 07:35 from Manchester calls, so you don't have to wait until Christmas to benefit.

Map sequence added

Barnt Green (BTG) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - added sequence 'BV+TL'


Map sequence removed

Barnt Green (BTG) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'BP+TO'
Barnt Green (BTG) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'BV'​

This removes all mapped routes via Crewe.
It adds routes which use the direct route from Tamworth to Stoke, and which go:
via Wolverhampton and Walsall on the one direct train a week;
via Wilnecote; and
via Sutton Coldfield.

Bath Spa (BTH) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - added sequence 'BW+BV+TL'
Bath Spa (BTH) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'BW+BO'
Bath Spa (BTH) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'BW+BV'
Bath Spa (BTH) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'RO'
WESTBURY GROUP (G46) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - added sequence 'BW+BV+TL'
WESTBURY GROUP (G46) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'BW+BM'
WESTBURY GROUP (G46) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'BW+BV'
WESTBURY GROUP (G46) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'RM'​

These remove all mapped routes via Wilmslow.
They also removes those via both Cheltenham and Crewe.
They add some mapped routes via both Cheltenham and Nuneaton.

BRISTOL GROUP (G05) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - added sequence 'PE+TL'
BRISTOL GROUP (G05) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'PO'​

This removes all mapped routes via Wilmslow.
It also removes those via Cheltenham and Crewe.
It adds some via Tame Bridge Parkway.

Bromsgrove (BMV) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - added sequence 'BV+TL'
Bromsgrove (BMV) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'BO'
Bromsgrove (BMV) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'BP+TO'​

This removes all mapped routes via Crewe.

Castle Cary (CLC) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - added sequence 'BW+BV+TL'
Castle Cary (CLC) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'BW+BV'​

This removes all mapped routes via Cheltenham and Crewe.
It adds some mapped routes which go via Cheltenham, and use the direct route from Tamworth to Stoke.
It also adds mapped routes via Cheltenham and Nuneaton.

EXETER GROUP (G12) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - added sequence 'PE+TL'
EXETER GROUP (G12) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'PB+BV'
Liskeard (LSK) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - added sequence 'PE+TL'
Liskeard (LSK) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'PB+BV'
Newton Abbot (NTA) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - added sequence 'PE+TL'
Newton Abbot (NTA) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'PB+BV'
Par (PAR) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - added sequence 'PE+TL'
Par (PAR) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'PB+BV'
PENZANCE GROUP (G79) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - added sequence 'PE+TL'
PENZANCE GROUP (G79) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'PB+BV'
PLYMOUTH GROUP (G21) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - added sequence 'PE+TL'
PLYMOUTH GROUP (G21) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'PB+BV'
Stoke On Trent (SOT) and Taunton (TAU) - added sequence 'TL+PE'
Stoke On Trent (SOT) and Taunton (TAU) - removed sequence 'BV+PB'
Stoke On Trent (SOT) and Truro (TRU) - added sequence 'TL+PE'
Stoke On Trent (SOT) and Truro (TRU) - removed sequence 'BV+PB'​

These remove all mapped routes via Cheltenham and Crewe.
They add some mapped routes via Nuneaton, and some use the direct route between Tamworth and Stoke.

There is actually a map called PLYMOUTH TO STOKE ON TRENT VIA BIRMINGHAM AND WEST COAST. This isn't valid for journeys from Plymouth to Stoke, and you couldn't replace PE (Plymouth to Edinburgh) with it in the above routes without changing things as it doesn't include the link between Birmingham and Walsall via Tame Bridge Parkway.

Gloucester (GCR) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - added sequence 'BL+KH+TL'
Gloucester (GCR) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - added sequence 'LG+KH+TL'
Gloucester (GCR) and Stoke On Trent (SOT) - removed sequence 'PB+BV'​

This removes all mapped routes via Crewe.
It also removes mapped routes via Bristol which use the line from Cheltenham to Bromsgrove avoiding Worcester.
It adds some which use the direct route from Tamworth to Stoke.
It also adds mapped routes via Cheltenham and Nuneaton.

WORCESTER GROUP (G35) and Gloucester (GCR) - added sequence 'CS'
WORCESTER GROUP (G35) and Gloucester (GCR) - removed sequence 'LG'​

This removes a mapped route via Bristol, leaving only the shortest route.

To ensure that routeing as intended by pricing at NFM64 applies, (travel by a route for which the fare for one of the component legs is greater than the fare for the overall journey), the following Routeing Point easement has been published to prevent travel to central London on tickets to/from Edenvbridge Town.

700601: Tickets on Fare route 00000 Any Permitted from Edenbridge Town to Sevenoaks and stations between Sevenoaks, Tonbridge and Hastings are not valid via London Termini. These journeys have always been priced as going via the fixed link walk between Edenbridge Town and Edenbridge. This Negative Routeing Point easement applies in both directions.​

The second sentence is an interesting one. Edenbridge Town opened in 1888, although I don't know if tickets to Sevenoas were available from the start. That aside, the sentence does suggest a position on the question of whether routes which start with a walk are permitted.

This easement reminds me of easement 700541, which was introduced last August and reads:

Customers travelling from Sevenoaks to Edenbridge and Edenbridge Town may not travel via London Terminals. This easement applies in both directions.​

In both cases, this looks to me as though it is forbidding something which wouldn't be allowed anyway. I'm sure there's a reason for them, though.

 

[furlong]

The second sentence is an interesting one. Edenbridge Town

Looks like a pricing error to me. Instead of messing about with easements of questionable validity, shouldn't the fare from Edenbridge Town to Sevenoaks (etc.) lie between the fares from the two stations it is sandwiched between, namely Hever and Hurst Green? These tickets should be issued from the separate stations instead of the group.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To ensure that routeing as intended by pricing at NFM64 applies,

That's rather putting the cart before the horse - post-privatisation, routeing can NEVER be inferred from pricing. If it's decided that a group of tickets has the "wrong" price, then those prices should be corrected. How has the industry got into a situation where it finds it easier to try to bend the routeing rules through dodgy easements to deal with "wrong" prices instead of just getting on and correcting the underlying mistakes with the fares?

If people want to travel from Edenbridge Town to Sevenoaks via Croydon, how can the industry think it can get away without offering a fare for that journey any more when fares exist from the two stations either side?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
(And for the record, it remains my view - albeit seemingly a minority view on this forum - that a journey can begin with a 'Useful Transfer' as listed in the National Rail Timetable - Edenbridge is listed - and that this counts as travelling "by rail" and can form a required part of a shortest route.)

 

[kieron]

Looks like a pricing error to me. Instead of messing about with easements of questionable validity, shouldn't the fare from Edenbridge Town to Sevenoaks (etc.) lie between the fares from the two stations it is sandwiched between, namely Hever and Hurst Green? These tickets should be issued from the separate stations instead of the group.

One thing to remember is that there are regulated tickets from Edenbridge Group to Sevenoaks, Tonbridge, Tunbridge Wells and Hastings. This means that any significant increase to fares from Edenbridge Town would need ministerial approval, and may not get it. Introducing an easement appears to be much easier.

If people want to travel from Edenbridge Town to Sevenoaks via Croydon, how can the industry think it can get away without offering a fare for that journey any more when fares exist from the two stations either side?

The easement only refers to travel via "London Termini". There are other routes from Croydon to all of the stations listed.

 

[furlong]

Introducing an easement appears to be much easier.

Easements also need prior DfT approval, amongst other things - but let's not open that can of worms.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

would need ministerial approval, and may not get it

Based on what we've seen on other FOI requests so far, I'd be surprised if an appropriate change to even out the fares relative to the adjacent stations wasn't acceptable.

 

[kieron]

Based on what we've seen on other FOI requests so far, I'd be surprised if an appropriate change to even out the fares relative to the adjacent stations wasn't acceptable.

I was thinking of it in terms of media coverage. "90% fare rise" is a pretty simple message, and one which could easily overshadow whatever the government tries to say about fare rises in January. Changes to how flexible a ticket is are too complex, certainly for the national media.

 

[319321]

(And for the record, it remains my view - albeit seemingly a minority view on this forum - that a journey can begin with a 'Useful Transfer' as listed in the National Rail Timetable - Edenbridge is listed - and that this counts as travelling "by rail" and can form a required part of a shortest route.)

I think you could argue this is ATOC's view as well, otherwise what would be the point of Easement 700570: Tickets for journeys between Southend Central and London are not permitted via Southend Victoria. This easement applies in both directions.

 

[yorkie]

I think you could argue this is ATOC's view....

You could... but you may find that people within ATOC disagree with each other (sometimes unknowingly!)

 

[kieron]

There was another update yesterday. It only affects a few easements.

New dataset RJRG0385 published 18 November 2015

Due to Engineering work closing the route through Swindon and to facilitate journeys on tickets priced not via Reading to use the alternative routes, this easement will override that location restriction in Not Via Reading priced tickets.

700602: During engineering works on the weekend of the 21 and 22 November 2015, the routes through Swindon are closed. Alternative routes are via Reading and Newbury. For journeys on Fare Route 00810 Not Via Reading, for example from Oxford to Chippenham that would normally travel via Swindon may travel via Reading during these works. This easement applies in both directions.​

This does not affect "via Swindon" tickets, but I suppose that's what the 'buses are for.

Easements no longer relevant or time expired.

Easement removed

700544: To facilitate Club 55 promotion ticket journeys from Achnashellach to Dunbar to travel via Aberdeen, this Routeing Point easement to the Fare checking rules is required. Where currently travel via Edinburgh is denied because the NFM64 check reveals that the fare Achnashellach to Edinburgh is higher than the Achnashellach fare to Dunbar. as a result Journey planners are not allowing the journey beyond Edinburgh. This easement applies in both directions.​

This easement was there for just over a year. I'm not sure off-hand which way Achnashellach-Dunbar passengers are supposed to go if journey planners don't show routes beyond Edinburgh as being valid, though.

700595: During the Club 55 promotion, until 14 November 2015, Club 55 tickets on Fare route 00085 TPE ONLY will be valid on FTPE between Newcastle and Kendal via Preston. This Routeing Point easement applies in both directions

700596: During the Club 55 promotion, until 14 November 2015, Club 55 tickets on Fare route 00085 TPE ONLY will be valid from Newcastle to Sheffield via Leeds. this easement applies in both directions.

700597: During engineering works on the weekends of 7th,8th and 14th,15th November 2015, tickets from London Paddington to Westbury routed 00063 VIA NEWBURY, will be able to travel via Melksham. This positive Fare Route easement will apply in both directions.​

These have all finished now.

Due to expanded scope of engineering works, the following easement has been amended to include additional dates.

700599: During engineering works on Sundays 29 November 2015, 12 December 2015 and 03 January 2016. From 23.25 hrs on the preceding Saturdays, all day Sunday to 04.55 hrs on the following Mondays, tickets from London Paddington to Hereford on Fare route VIA EVESHAM will be valid Gloucester and Newport (South Wales). This positive fare route easement will be valid in both directions.​

Another temporary easement. I wonder where you have to be at 11:25 on the Saturday for this to be valid.

 

[island]

The "all day Sunday" part is probably most relevant

 

[Nicholas43]

Some more updates have been made to the routeing guide.

New dataset RJRG0382

700598: Following the introduction of the Chiltern services from Oxford to London Marylebone; tickets on Fare route 00000 Any Permitted from or via Oxford, Oxford Parkway, Islip or Bicester Village to London or beyond will not be valid on the new services via High Wycombe and will remain valid only via Oxford. this negative circuitous route easement will apply in both directions.
Oddly enough, the change list includes the old version of the easement rather than the new one. The new one is:

700598: Following the introduction of the Chiltern services from Oxford Parkway to London Marylebone,and until Chiltern operate direct through services from Oxford to London; tickets on Fare route 00000 Any Permitted from or via Oxford to London or beyond will not be valid on the new services via High Wycombe and will remain valid only via Reading. This negative circuitous route easement will apply in both directions.​

The main changes from this are that it comes into effect sooner, and only affects journeys from, to or via Oxford.

A test on 25 November showed that this (absurd) "negative easement" is not implemented by the NRE journey planner, or by the gates at Marylebone and Oxford Parkway.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2375075&postcount=27

 

[infobleep]

A test on 25 November showed that this (absurd) "negative easement" is not implemented by the NRE journey planner, or by the gates at Marylebone and Oxford Parkway.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2375075&postcount=27

If they are following this forum, perhaps they will now implement it on NRE and at the gates.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they are following this forum, perhaps they will now implement it on NRE and at the gates.

It certainly seems that commenting here is an effective way of getting unintentional anomalies fixed, be that in a positive or negative manner for the passenger.

 

[mikeg]

Routeing Guide

To access the latest Routeing Guide data please use the link below.
http://data.atoc.org/routeing-guide
New dataset RJRG0386 published 02 December 2015

Following request to remove circuitous routes between the Lincoln and Grantham Routeing Points, it was necessary to change map GT and amend map sequences. The following changes have been made.
Map changed
Map GT - GRANTHAM TO TEESIDE changed (0 added/ 2 removed links connecting to Lincoln Routeing Point)
Map sequence added
Darlington (DAR) and Grantham (GRA) - added sequence 'GT+ED+KS'
Darlington (DAR) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - added sequence 'GT+DG'
Darlington (DAR) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - added sequence 'GT+GH+DG'
Darlington (DAR) and Sleaford (SLR) - added sequence 'GT+ED'
Darlington (DAR) and Sleaford (SLR) - added sequence 'GT+KS'
Grantham (GRA) and Lincoln (LCN) - added sequence 'GT'
Grantham (GRA) and Lincoln (LCN) - added sequence 'KS+DO'
Grantham (GRA) and Northallerton (NTR) - added sequence 'KS+ED+GT'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and Grantham (GRA) - added sequence 'GT+ED+KS'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - added sequence 'GT+DG'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - added sequence 'GT+GH+DG'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and Sleaford (SLR) - added sequence 'GT+ED'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and Sleaford (SLR) - added sequence 'GT+KS'
Northallerton (NTR) and Sleaford (SLR) - added sequence 'GT+ED'
Northallerton (NTR) and Sleaford (SLR) - added sequence 'GT+KS'
NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) and Northallerton (NTR) - added sequence 'DG+GH+GT'
NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) and Northallerton (NTR) - added sequence 'DG+GT'
Map sequence removed
Darlington (DAR) and Grantham (GRA) - removed sequence 'GT+DL'
Darlington (DAR) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - removed sequence 'GT+DL'
Darlington (DAR) and Sleaford (SLR) - removed sequence 'GT'
Darlington (DAR) and Sleaford (SLR) - removed sequence 'GT+DL'
Grantham (GRA) and Lincoln (LCN) - removed sequence 'DL+EE'
Grantham (GRA) and Lincoln (LCN) - removed sequence 'ER'
Grantham (GRA) and Northallerton (NTR) - removed sequence 'DL+GT'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and Grantham (GRA) - removed sequence 'GT+DL'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - removed sequence 'GT+DL'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and Sleaford (SLR) - removed sequence 'GT'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and Sleaford (SLR) - removed sequence 'GT+DL'
Northallerton (NTR) and Sleaford (SLR) - removed sequence 'GT'
Northallerton (NTR) and Sleaford (SLR) - removed sequence 'GT+DL'
NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) and Northallerton (NTR) - removed sequence 'DL+GT'

Easement removed engineering work completed.
700602: During engineering works on the weekend of the 21 and 22 November, the routes through Swindon are closed. Alternative routes are via Reading and Newbury. For journeys on Fare Route 00810 Not Via Reading, for example from Oxford to Chippenham that would normally travel via Swindon may travel via Reading during these works. This easement applies in both directions.
Easement changed to remove from text dates now expired
700599: During engineering works on Sundays 29 November 2015, 12 December 2015 and 03 January 2016. From 23.25 hrs on the preceding Saturdays, all day Sunday to 04.55 hrs on the following Mondays, tickets from London Paddington to Hereford on Fare route VIA EVESHAM will be valid Gloucester and Newport (South Wales). This positive fare route easement will be valid in both directions.
Easement changed electronic data used by a Journey planner amended - no change to text
700598: Following the introduction of the Chiltern services from Oxford Parkway to London Marylebone,and until Chiltern operate direct through services from Oxford to London; tickets on Fare route 00000 Any Permitted from or via Oxford to London or beyond will not be valid on the new services via High Wycombe and will remain valid only via Reading. This negative circuitous route easement will apply in both directions.
Easement total643 easement(s) (previously: 644)
Circuitous Route: 259 (previously 259)
Doubleback: 90 (previously 90)
Fare route: 12 (previously 13)
Local: 56 (previously 56)
Manual: 15 (previously 15)
Map: 5 (previously 5)
Routeing Point: 206 (previously 206)

Am I being dense or do the Northallerton/Darlo to Nottingham changes remove validity via Grantham? Given that I have been known to make this journey, if this is the case I'm disappointed. WebTIS will still give an itinerary but I can't trace the route on any of the given map sets

So if true here's my rant: Yet again, ATOC's overzealous approach to the slightest anomaly in favour of the passenger results in genuine journey opportunities being denied. We don't all want to choose between being sandwiched in a voyager, an excruciatingly long journey time (TPE+Northern, changing at Leeds) or a walk between stations. The result is that I would no longer consider the ECML for a journey from Nottingham to Nortallerton. Bet XC are rubbing their hands with glee at all the extra ORCATS revenue coming their way, despite the fact I'll be taking the slow route on Northern and TPE. Oh and it's been valid this way as long as I can remember... Just like a whole other load of journeys I used to make (Northallerton/Thirsk/York to Stafford avoiding
Manchester, Northallerton/Thirsk/York to Stoke on Trent via Derby (handy for dogbox bashing and WCML disruption alike)).
Whatever happened to historically valid routes will be protected?

That said if it's me being daft and not being able to read it properly this late, I'll happily step off the outrage bus (well at least when ATOC have restored competition from my hometown to Stafford)...

 

[OwlMan]

Am I being dense or do the Northallerton/Darlo to Nottingham changes remove validity via Grantham? Given that I have been known to make this journey, if this is the case I'm disappointed. WebTIS will still give an itinerary but I can't trace the route on any of the given map sets

So if true here's my rant: Yet again, ATOC's overzealous approach to the slightest anomaly in favour of the passenger results in genuine journey opportunities being denied. We don't all want to choose between being sandwiched in a voyager, an excruciatingly long journey time (TPE+Northern, changing at Leeds) or a walk between stations. The result is that I would no longer consider the ECML for a journey from Nottingham to Nortallerton. Bet XC are rubbing their hands with glee at all the extra ORCATS revenue coming their way, despite the fact I'll be taking the slow route on Northern and TPE. Oh and it's been valid this way as long as I can remember... Just like a whole other load of journeys I used to make (Northallerton/Thirsk/York to Stafford avoiding
Manchester, Northallerton/Thirsk/York to Stoke on Trent via Derby (handy for dogbox bashing and WCML disruption alike)).
Whatever happened to historically valid routes will be protected?

That said if it's me being daft and not being able to read it properly this late, I'll happily step off the outrage bus (well at least when ATOC have restored competition from my hometown to Stafford)...

Yes they have - it was probably an oversight as it seems a reasonable route - send a complaint to ATOC

 

[Haywain]

Am I being dense or do the Northallerton/Darlo to Nottingham changes remove validity via Grantham? Given that I have been known to make this journey, if this is the case I'm disappointed. WebTIS will still give an itinerary but I can't trace the route on any of the given map sets

York to Nottingham remains valid via Grantham on maps GS+DL so removing the route for Northallerton and Darlington could be an error.

 

[kieron]

There was another update on Wednesday.

New dataset RJRG0386 published 02 December 2015



Following request to remove circuitous routes between the Lincoln and Grantham Routeing Points, it was necessary to change map GT and amend map sequences. The following changes have been made.

Map changed

Map GT - GRANTHAM TO TEESIDE changed (0 added/ 2 removed links connecting to Lincoln Routeing Point)​

This removes links between Lincoln and Doncaster, and Lincoln to Retford.

In addition to some routes listed below, this is used in:

Carlisle (CAR) to Grantham (GRA)​

Here it removes mapped routes via both Lincoln and Newcastle.

Map sequence added

Darlington (DAR) and Grantham (GRA) - added sequence 'GT+ED+KS'
Darlington (DAR) and Sleaford (SLR) - added sequence 'GT+ED'
Darlington (DAR) and Sleaford (SLR) - added sequence 'GT+KS'
Grantham (GRA) and Northallerton (NTR) - added sequence 'KS+ED+GT'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and Grantham (GRA) - added sequence 'GT+ED+KS'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and Sleaford (SLR) - added sequence 'GT+ED'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and Sleaford (SLR) - added sequence 'GT+KS'
Northallerton (NTR) and Sleaford (SLR) - added sequence 'GT+ED'
Northallerton (NTR) and Sleaford (SLR) - added sequence 'GT+KS'

Map sequence removed

Darlington (DAR) and Grantham (GRA) - removed sequence 'GT+DL'
Darlington (DAR) and Sleaford (SLR) - removed sequence 'GT'
Darlington (DAR) and Sleaford (SLR) - removed sequence 'GT+DL'
Grantham (GRA) and Northallerton (NTR) - removed sequence 'DL+GT'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and Grantham (GRA) - removed sequence 'GT+DL'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and Sleaford (SLR) - removed sequence 'GT'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and Sleaford (SLR) - removed sequence 'GT+DL'
Northallerton (NTR) and Sleaford (SLR) - removed sequence 'GT'
Northallerton (NTR) and Sleaford (SLR) - removed sequence 'GT+DL'
​

These removes mapped routes via both Newark and Gainsborough.

Darlington (DAR) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - added sequence 'GT+DG'
Darlington (DAR) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - added sequence 'GT+GH+DG'
Darlington (DAR) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - removed sequence 'GT+DL'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - added sequence 'GT+DG'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - added sequence 'GT+GH+DG'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - removed sequence 'GT+DL'
NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) and Northallerton (NTR) - added sequence 'DG+GH+GT'
NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) and Northallerton (NTR) - added sequence 'DG+GT'
NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) and Northallerton (NTR) - removed sequence 'DL+GT'​

These remove mapped routes via Bingham (including all those via Grantham or Sleaford).
They add some mapped routes via Gilberdyke (all going Selby-Gilberdyke-Goole-Doncaster).
They also add some via Retford, Lincoln and Burton Joyce.

Grantham (GRA) and Lincoln (LCN) - added sequence 'GT'
Grantham (GRA) and Lincoln (LCN) - added sequence 'KS+DO'
Grantham (GRA) and Lincoln (LCN) - removed sequence 'DL+EE'
Grantham (GRA) and Lincoln (LCN) - removed sequence 'ER'​

This removes routes via Peterborough.

Easement removed engineering work completed.

700602: During engineering works on the weekend of the 21 and 22 November, the routes through Swindon are closed. Alternative routes are via Reading and Newbury. For journeys on Fare Route 00810 Not Via Reading, for example from Oxford to Chippenham that would normally travel via Swindon may travel via Reading during these works. This easement applies in both directions.​

Defunct, as stated.

Easement changed to remove from text dates now expired

700599: During engineering works on Sundays 29 November 2015, 12 December 2015 and 03 January 2016. From 23.25 hrs on the preceding Saturdays, all day Sunday to 04.55 hrs on the following Mondays, tickets from London Paddington to Hereford on Fare route VIA EVESHAM will be valid Gloucester and Newport (South Wales). This positive fare route easement will be valid in both directions.​

It now reads "During engineering works on Sundays 12 December 2015 and 03 January 2016...". No other changes.

Easement changed electronic data used by a Journey planner amended - no change to text

700598: Following the introduction of the Chiltern services from Oxford Parkway to London Marylebone,and until Chiltern operate direct through services from Oxford to London; tickets on Fare route 00000 Any Permitted from or via Oxford to London or beyond will not be valid on the new services via High Wycombe and will remain valid only via Reading. This negative circuitous route easement will apply in both directions.​

No changes to the text, as stated.

 

[OwlMan]

ATOC have obviously read this today

New Dataset published RJRG0387 published 04 December 2015

To ensure permitted routes from Nottingham to Darlington, Northallerton and Middlesborogh are consistent with permissions to York and newcastle the following changes have been made.
Map sequence added
Darlington (DAR) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - added sequence 'GT+DL'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - added sequence 'GT+DL'
NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) and Northallerton (NTR) - added sequence 'DL+GT'

To remove circuitous routes created in 2013 for a promotional fare, butr not subsequently removed. The following changes have been made. (Future promotions will be see the creation of dated map easements that will permit the promotional routes in journey planners, and will not require the publication of additional map sequences).
Map sequence removed
Doncaster. (DON) and Newcastle (NCL) - removed sequence 'DW+MN'
Doncaster. (DON) and York (YRK) - removed sequence 'DW+MN'
Easements removed
700405: Customers travelling from Doncaster to Newcastle, Chester Le Street, Durham, Darlington, Middlesbrough, Thornaby, Yarm, Northallerton, Thirsk, York, Malton, Seamer or Scarborough in possession of tickets routed "Any Permitted" may not travel via Manchester Stations. This easement applies in both directions.
700411: Customers travelling from Cleethorpes, Grimsby Town, Habrough, Barnetby, Scunthorpe or Doncaster to Leeds, Garforth and Selby in possession of tickets routed "Any Permitted" may not travel via Manchester Stations. This easement applies in both directions.
Easement total 641 easement(s) (previously: 643)
Circuitous Route: 257 (previously 259)
Doubleback: 90 (previously 90)
Fare route: 12 (previously 12)
Local: 56 (previously 56)
Manual: 15 (previously 15)
Map: 5 (previously 5)
Routeing Point: 206 (previously 206)

 

[Wallsendmag]

ATOC have obviously read this today

Or a friendly TOC who suffered the law of unintended consequences

 

[kieron]

As OwlMan said, there was another update yesterday.

New Dataset published RJRG0387 published 04 December 2015

To ensure permitted routes from Nottingham to Darlington, Northallerton and Middlesbrough are consistent with permissions to York and Newcastle the following changes have been made.

Map sequence added

Darlington (DAR) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - added sequence 'GT+DL'
MIDDLESBROUGH GROUP (G42) and NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) - added sequence 'GT+DL'
NOTTINGHAM GROUP (G43) and Northallerton (NTR) - added sequence 'DL+GT'​

These add mapped routes via Bingham.

To remove circuitous routes created in 2013 for a promotional fare, but not subsequently removed. The following changes have been made. (Similar future promotions will be see the creation of dated map easements that will permit the promotional routes in journey planners, and will not require the publication of additional map sequences and accompanying restrictive controlling easements).​

That looks like a promise.

Map sequence removed

Doncaster. (DON) and Newcastle (NCL) - removed sequence 'DW+MN'
Doncaster. (DON) and York (YRK) - removed sequence 'DW+MN'​

​

These remove mapped routes via Manchester, and ones involving a train from Guide Bridge to Stalybridge.

Easements removed

700405: Customers travelling from Doncaster to Newcastle, Chester Le Street, Durham, Darlington, Middlesbrough, Thornaby, Yarm, Northallerton, Thirsk, York, Malton, Seamer or Scarborough in possession of tickets routed "Any Permitted" may not travel via Manchester Stations. This easement applies in both directions.

700411: Customers travelling from Cleethorpes, Grimsby Town, Habrough, Barnetby, Scunthorpe or Doncaster to Leeds, Garforth and Selby in possession of tickets routed "Any Permitted" may not travel via Manchester Stations. This easement applies in both directions.​

​

These were added in October 2013. Possibly for a Club 55 offer with TPE?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There was another update yesterday.

New dataset RJRG0388 published 09 December 2015

To remove circuitous routes between Leamington Spa and Northampton routeing points; a wider review of permissions has led to the following changes being published.



Map sequences added

Bedford (BDM) and Leamington Spa (LMS) - added sequence 'EN+OV+GC'
Bedford (BDM) and Leamington Spa (LMS) - added sequence 'EN+SM'

Map sequences removed

Bedford (BDM) and Leamington Spa (LMS) - removed sequence 'TV+BP+BB'
Bedford (BDM) and Leamington Spa (LMS) - removed sequence 'TV+GC'​

This removes all mapped routes via Nuneaton and via Birmingham, except for those which also go via London.

Bedford (BDM) and STRATFORD U GROUP (G72) - added sequence 'EN+OV+GC'
Bedford (BDM) and STRATFORD U GROUP (G72) - added sequence 'EN+SM'
Bedford (BDM) and STRATFORD U GROUP (G72) - removed sequence 'TV+BP+WM'
Bedford (BDM) and STRATFORD U GROUP (G72) - removed sequence 'TV+WM'​

This removes mapped routes via Nuneaton.
It also removes mapped routes via both London and Birmingham.
It adds some mapped routes via Rugby and Leamington.

Bedford (BDM) and WARWICK GROUP (G73) - added sequence 'EN+OV+GC'
Bedford (BDM) and WARWICK GROUP (G73) - added sequence 'EN+SM'
Bedford (BDM) and WARWICK GROUP (G73) - removed sequence 'TV+BP+WM'
Bedford (BDM) and WARWICK GROUP (G73) - removed sequence 'TV+GC'​

This removes mapped routes via Nuneaton.
It also removes mapped routes via both Rugby and Birmingham.

Bletchley (BLY) and Leamington Spa (LMS) - added sequence 'EN+SM'
Bletchley (BLY) and Leamington Spa (LMS) - removed sequence 'TV+BP+BB'
Bletchley (BLY) and Leamington Spa (LMS) - removed sequence 'TV+GC'​

This removes mapped routes via London, via Birmingham and via Nuneaton.
None of the routes via London would have been valid on a flexible Bletchley-Leamington ticket beforehand, as they were all routed "via Coventry", but advance tickets may have allowed it.

Bletchley (BLY) and STRATFORD U GROUP (G72) - added sequence 'EN+SM'
Bletchley (BLY) and STRATFORD U GROUP (G72) - removed sequence 'TV+BP+WM'
Bletchley (BLY) and STRATFORD U GROUP (G72) - removed sequence 'TV+WM'
STRATFORD U GROUP (G72) and Milton Keynes Central (MKC) - added sequence 'SM+EN'
STRATFORD U GROUP (G72) and Milton Keynes Central (MKC) - removed sequence 'WM+BP+TV'
STRATFORD U GROUP (G72) and Milton Keynes Central (MKC) - removed sequence 'WM+TV'​

These removes mapped routes via Birmingham.
They add a mapped route via Northampton and Leamington.
They also adds one which avoids Northampton, but this is the shortest route between stations in each routeing point anyway.

Bletchley (BLY) and WARWICK GROUP (G73) - added sequence 'EN+SM'
Bletchley (BLY) and WARWICK GROUP (G73) - removed sequence 'TV+BP+WM'
Bletchley (BLY) and WARWICK GROUP (G73) - removed sequence 'TV+GC'
Leamington Spa (LMS) and Milton Keynes Central (MKC) - added sequence 'SM+EN'
Leamington Spa (LMS) and Milton Keynes Central (MKC) - removed sequence 'BB+BP+TV'
Leamington Spa (LMS) and Milton Keynes Central (MKC) - removed sequence 'GC+TV'
WARWICK GROUP (G73) and Milton Keynes Central (MKC) - added sequence 'SM+EN'
WARWICK GROUP (G73) and Milton Keynes Central (MKC) - removed sequence 'GC+TV'
WARWICK GROUP (G73) and Milton Keynes Central (MKC) - removed sequence 'WM+BP+TV'​

These remove mapped routes via London, via Birmingham and via Nuneaton.

Leamington Spa (LMS) and Northampton (NMP) - added sequence 'BB+SM'
Leamington Spa (LMS) and Northampton (NMP) - removed sequence 'GC+TV'
Leamington Spa (LMS) and Northampton (NMP) - removed sequence 'GC+WM'
Leamington Spa (LMS) and Northampton (NMP) - removed sequence 'WM'
Leamington Spa (LMS) and Northampton (NMP) - removed sequence 'WM+TV'​

This removes mapped routes via Nuneaton, via Milton Keynes and via Stratford-upon-Avon.

STRATFORD U GROUP (G72) and Northampton (NMP) - added sequence 'BB+SM'​

This adds a route via Birmingham.
It goes Stratford-Warwick-Birmingham-Rugby-Northampton, so isn't an especially convenient route.

STRATFORD U GROUP (G72) and Watford Junction (WFJ) - added sequence 'SM+EN'​

These add a mapped route via Northampton and Leamington.
It also makes the shortest route (which avoids Northampton) a mapped route.

WARWICK GROUP (G73) and Northampton (NMP) - added sequence 'BB+SM'​

These add a mapped route via Birmingham. This does use the shortest routes to and from Birmingham.

WARWICK GROUP (G73) and Watford Junction (WFJ) - added sequence 'SM+EN'​

These add a mapped route via Rugby and Northampton.
It also makes the shortest route (which avoids Northampton) a mapped route.

Leamington Spa (LMS) and Willesden Junction (WIJ) - removed sequence 'RB+EB'​

This removes all of the mapped routes which avoid London.

To ensure tickets routed via Salisbury are valid for journeys between South Wales/Bristol and Portsmouth during a ilne closure in February 2016, the following dated easement has been published.

Easement added

700602: During engineering work between 06 February and 19 February 2016, which will see the closure of the line between Romsey and Warminster. Tickets on fare routes via SALISBURY (00837) and AP SALISBURY (00618) will be permitted for travel on alternative permitted routes via Reading. This positive fare route easement applies in both directions.​

February? I admire their confidence.
I don't know what is planned, so I imagine there's a good reason why other routes such as "via Warminster-Salisbury" are unaffected.

 

[thedbdiboy]

It is worth reminding forum users that the responsibility for route permissions lies with the flow owner of the ticket concerned. ATOC administers the RG on their behalf but any issues you have with a change of routeing should be directed to the TOC flow owner.

 

[Starmill]

It is worth reminding forum users that the responsibility for route permissions lies with the flow owner of the ticket concerned. ATOC administers the RG on their behalf but any issues you have with a change of routeing should be directed to the TOC flow owner.

Presumably though it's your people who type the actual gubbins that we're expected to make sense of. If they can't even be bothered to proof read to check for sense and basic errors...