90s and Mk3s are still on the table as far as I'm aware. These service enhancements aren't due until December 2009 though. And I'm sorry, but I hardly see the livery as relevant :?. Please try and keep comments sensible.
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National Express Group to give up franchises??
- Thread starter Bayum
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90s and Mk3s are still on the table as far as I'm aware. These service enhancements aren't due until December 2009 though. And I'm sorry, but I hardly see the livery as relevant :?. Please try and keep comments sensible.
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GNERman
Established Member
Sorry - just had to say it
I'd like to see the 90's at Leeds
I'd like to see the 90's at Leeds
90019
Established Member
Surely that's because it's not supposed to have happened yet?
GNERman
Established Member
But isn't by end of this year quite a long time after the franchise started
Why hasn't it happened sooner...
Why hasn't it happened sooner...
These things don't happen overnight :roll:. Probably because it wasn't a franchise requirement.
GNERman
Established Member
Fair enough...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
May I also say that I think that NXEC has been SO slack at repaints.
They started the franchise in November 2007 (?) and so far they haven't even painted a Mk. 4 set!
I think this just shows what NX think of their franchises. Surely this isn't creating a good image...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
May I also say that I think that NXEC has been SO slack at repaints.
They started the franchise in November 2007 (?) and so far they haven't even painted a Mk. 4 set!
I think this just shows what NX think of their franchises. Surely this isn't creating a good image...
flymo
Established Member
Just my 2p worth
If (now that is a big IF!!) the rumours are true and they are going to give up their franchise, there isn't much point in spending more money to repaint something you don't own. I thought they might have re-done at least one mk4 set in the time they have had them though, just for show if nothing else....
If (now that is a big IF!!) the rumours are true and they are going to give up their franchise, there isn't much point in spending more money to repaint something you don't own. I thought they might have re-done at least one mk4 set in the time they have had them though, just for show if nothing else....
This feels like a 'damned if they do, damned if they don't' type comment.
I've seen just as many posts complaining when other operators (EMT, First) have quickly reliveried their fleet with comments about 'waste of money' etc. Yet here we have a post complaining that NXEC haven't reliveried their fleet.
For what it's worth, it really doesn't matter what colour the train is, providing it turns up when it's meant to, gets to it's destination on time, is clean and fairly comfortable. The colour it's painted is purely a peripheral issue.
37401
Established Member
its creating a poor image they have pinted 1 class 91 and a few HST sets but ive seen mixed sets where all the carrages are Repainted exept one or two hmm bit lazy
87015
Established Member
London Midland should be due to be hauled up in front of DfT soon after this weeks complete shambles, no doubt it will all collapse tomorrow aswell. Some people had a nice six hour wait for a (ANY) train at Cheddington today with no information whilst every other TOC + FOC in the area ran a near as normal service. Who else could make Central Trains look so good??
BRING BACK SILVERLINK ALL IS FORGIVEN.
BRING BACK SILVERLINK ALL IS FORGIVEN.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Totally agree with you!
As for 90s - since so little of the network is electrified, proposed services to Lincoln/ Harrogate etc will obviously need to be diesel, and I think there was something in the Rail Regulator's documents about 90s not being fast enough for some ECML paths - not an ideal solution.
You'd be better sending 90s for the Virgin Birmingham - Glasgow/ Edinburgh services (if they could match the Voyagers for time?)...
I doubt they would; the Voyagers can tilt and, especially north of Carlisle, this is essential in maintaining the fast journey times.
SIR Richard Branson was yesterday accused of "mischief making" by rail operator National Express after suggesting he could take over its East Coast train franchise.
Senior National Express executive Paul Bunting spoke out as he was grilled by MPs about Wednesdays front-page Journal story that his firm was struggling with its £1.4bn deal agreed with ministers and Sir Richards Virgin Trains was ready to step in.
Mr Bunting, his companys marketing boss, said: "I think Richard Branson gave a personal view, which his company has refuted.
"So I think we will just put that one down to Richards style."
He added: "That is just a little bit of mischief making there from our friends at Virgin."
Improved services would still go ahead with the East Coast franchise in good health, said Mr Bunting.
He said: "We are seeing growth, our customer satisfaction levels are rising, our punctuality levels are rising. We have real confidence with the franchise."
http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-...ack-at-branson-takeover-claim-61634-22860728/
Senior National Express executive Paul Bunting spoke out as he was grilled by MPs about Wednesdays front-page Journal story that his firm was struggling with its £1.4bn deal agreed with ministers and Sir Richards Virgin Trains was ready to step in.
Mr Bunting, his companys marketing boss, said: "I think Richard Branson gave a personal view, which his company has refuted.
"So I think we will just put that one down to Richards style."
He added: "That is just a little bit of mischief making there from our friends at Virgin."
Improved services would still go ahead with the East Coast franchise in good health, said Mr Bunting.
He said: "We are seeing growth, our customer satisfaction levels are rising, our punctuality levels are rising. We have real confidence with the franchise."
http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-...ack-at-branson-takeover-claim-61634-22860728/
GNERman
Established Member
What about if they gave more power to the Leeds - Skipton bit...
tbtc
Veteran Member
Would be good if they upgraded the power supply to allow 90s or 91s for that section - it'd allow a regular service (of a decent length) to potential markets in the Bradford area, North Yorkshire and may even attract some (London bound) passengers from East Lancashire over the hill.
Shame it was never done before
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Failed Unit
Established Member
*Pendant alert* The 185's can't tilt but are timetabled to take the same time as the 221's (not compared to the Pendo's)
I never understand why people keep saying this, why is it important? Why does it matter if Virgin have 100% of the rail market between London and Scotland but it doesn't matter they have 100% of the rail market between London and Manchester? (By direct trains)
The real choice between London and Scotland is do you fly or do you go by train, having 2 different operators isn't going to change this. If you don't want to use Virgin Rail then fly. Having a united operator against the air market could be better than having 2 operators fighting for the minority of passengers. Would anyone from Edinburgh really use Virgin any way and change? Glasgow maybe but the extra hour makes a big difference, people that do it are only doing it for price!
Been very bad, you can get to London on both routes without using Virgin.
East Coast, XC to York then GC onwards.
West Coast, TPE to Manchester, Another operator to Stoke / Crewe then London Midland.
90019
Established Member
It won't be allowed because companies are generally not allowed by the competition comission to have a monopoly on things such as this, and if virgin were to have both the ECML and WCML franchises, it would mean they would control the two main lines between Scotland and London and would therefore have no competition on the lines, meaning that they could put prices up, within reason, without risking losing business.
For this, you can't compare it with flying, as they are completely different methods of transport, and it's not an alternative for everyone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_Commission
Failed Unit
Established Member
To Q1 tilt has been taken away from the XC voyagers.
To the point above we are only concerned about the London - Scotland flow so the competition commission are basically allowing to to take place on some routes and not others. London - Manchester / Liverpool / Nottingham and Leicester to name a few are a lot bigger flows with a monopoly. London - South Wales is the same so why worry about London - Scotland?
Looking at both routes, Edinburgh - York has got XC so passengers have a choice. Likewise Scotland to Preston now has TPE.
I see with what you are saying but I think the government would be totally wrong to block one operator having East and West coast routes without saying that London - Manchester operated by different TOC's, say the 00:00 by Virgin, 00:20 by National Express and the 00:40 by RyanRail. It is basically one rule for some areas and another for a different area. I am sure the TOC would successfully be able to appeal using other routes as an example.
Prices are not kept down by competition, on routes where competition exists the fares on both routes went up by RPI+1% on regulated fares and by more on unregulated fares.
90019
Established Member
Yes, but for someone looking for a direct train from Scotland to London or vice versa, it would be a very bad thing; if both franchises were run by only one TOC, they would be able to bump the prices up more on both routes, and they would not lose passengers to another TOC, unlike if they only had 1 franchise and bumped the prices up on that, then people would go for the much cheaper option on the other line, and the TOC woud lose customers and money.
I think if both were currently operated by a single TOC, the price rises would have been much steeper than they have been.
Failed Unit
Established Member
We will just have to disagree on this one. Edinburgh - London is already a rail monopoly in terms of direct trains, very few passengers will travel to Glasgow to get to London instead. If you look at passengers on the ECML trains that have left Glasgow only 1 or 2 are ever going beyond Peterborough most are going to Newcastle, York etc. People making that kind of journey hate changing trains.
If they put up the price too much people would fly or use the coach. I think areas such as East Anglia where National Express operate both the trains and coaches would be much worse than one operator having both rail route.
In my ideal world both routes would be operated by the same operator, BR
But I think as most of the UK has no choice put to one operator why should London - Scotland be the only flow that only having one operator is not allowed, why is it OK for London - South Wales to only have one operator? Double standards me thinks and the same arguement applies to South Wales, if they put the prices up to much who can the passengers use instead, it isn't as if they can fly or use the sleeper!The other thing I suspect Virgin think they can legally challenge the ruling as it is so inconsistent in the logic that why is only London - Scotland protect but London - Kent isn't? Otherwise they would not have bid twice on the ECML franchise. Bidding costs a lot of money so why waste it when you know "legally" you never be allowed to have it. People were saying last time around that as long as they didn't own XC which they don't they would be OK as only London would be effect the majority of destinations would have competition as discussed earlier. Edinburgh - Peterborough for example use XC and EMT!
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Failed Unit
Established Member
I think it is minute for minute the same between Preston and Scotland, as you said the quicker dwell times may be the reason.
Royston Vasey
Established Member
The government has dismissed fears that its most lucrative rail franchise is in trouble by giving a clean bill of health to the £1.4bn National Express East Coast service.
Lord Adonis, transport minister, said today that the business was fulfilling the terms of its contract, which was signed at the height of the economic boom and needs strong passenger and revenue growth to meet its targets. Responding to a question in the House of Lords, Adonis said: "I am glad to say that National Express is fulfilling the terms of its franchise agreement and that both they and we expect this to continue."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/feb/09/adonis-backs-railway-franchise
Lord Adonis, transport minister, said today that the business was fulfilling the terms of its contract, which was signed at the height of the economic boom and needs strong passenger and revenue growth to meet its targets. Responding to a question in the House of Lords, Adonis said: "I am glad to say that National Express is fulfilling the terms of its franchise agreement and that both they and we expect this to continue."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/feb/09/adonis-backs-railway-franchise
Failed Unit
Established Member
Pedant alert: pedant is spelt p-e-d-a-n-t!
Sorry mate, couldn't resist
I think the former IC routes may ride out the recession better than the former Network South East routes. People holidaying at home and Europeans taking advantage of the good exchange rate could help a lot. Not sure how recession proof the regional routes are however.
glynn80
Established Member
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11%?? Google is quoting 7.75%, still though something is quite suspect.
Share prices don't mean much, lot of things can be driven by fear - which is the whole reason of this financial crisis. I have seen investors logging onto websites and looking for information whether to buy investments or not - so be careful what you say.
Its a crazy system when you consider all transport company share prices have gone down (especially airlines and car companies) because transport so closely reflects the economy/energy prices.
Quite what happens when the world's transport system collapses because all these companies go bankrupt, I'm not too sure.
I understand commercial shipping are moving products for free, because otherwise these ships would have to be taken out of service. Again, clearly this is unsustainable, quite what happens when distribution lines are disrupted when we import so much of our food/fuel/goods I don't know.
Its a crazy system when you consider all transport company share prices have gone down (especially airlines and car companies) because transport so closely reflects the economy/energy prices.
Quite what happens when the world's transport system collapses because all these companies go bankrupt, I'm not too sure.
I understand commercial shipping are moving products for free, because otherwise these ships would have to be taken out of service. Again, clearly this is unsustainable, quite what happens when distribution lines are disrupted when we import so much of our food/fuel/goods I don't know.
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