National Express Group to give up franchises??

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As I keep saying private companies are not going to become involved without a profit motive or at least state guarantees - because otherwise they can't fund it - IE get financial backings from banks/shareholders. We can moan about the TOCs stripping off profits (which are actually quite modest) but the only other alternative is nationalisation. And if anyone remembers that, it was about reducing services, paying staff the minimum. BR got generally good towards the end of its life, but was hardly what could be described as entrepreneurial. It was threatening to close lines like the Settle - Carlisle in 1989, which is now a big success. And ECML main lines services were essentially hourly to Leeds and Newcastle/Edinburgh. Plus the odd extra service, and that was that.

I would like to see the railways get better and reduce costs, but I believe this will be through good management and innovation rather than having civil servants running it sat in BR HQ.

Agree the micromanagement doesn't help but BR wasn't all bad and about cutting back. I remember BR in the 70's and 80's well and I would much rather have it! Another couple of own goals was shutting March - Spalding and the Lincoln avoiding line, but could anyone have predicted that traffic would grow that much?

In the early 90's a lot of Inter-City services were withdrawn to make privatisation simpler, Cleethorpes, Blackpool and Shrewsbury to name a few. I guess that these would have stayed. (the increase fares and change the times to put customers off using the Cleethorpes service) The art of running a network has done, GNER were only ever interested in flows between thier own stations, Live in Lincolnshire then drive to the ECML otherwise we don't want your money was the attitude.

As for BR not developing routes or been entrepreneurial, regional express was a good example of them making massive improvements. Norwich - Liverpool, Cleethorpes - Birmingham (destroyed by DfT), Cambridge - Birmingham were all created by BR. Skegness - Crewe was developed by BR as well, yes it was only done to save units but it was a useful through service!

The ECML under the last years of BR was pretty much the same as it is now for London - Edinburgh / Newcastle just some of the stops have altered. It also had 3 trains per day (wow) to Hull in 1991 as well as Cleethorpes and London - Edinburgh in 4 hours, again trying to get market share. Yes Leeds was only hourly in the peak but that was all that was needed back then.

From my personal experience things are a lot worse since the network was privatised but I am from Lincolnshire and we have lost.

1. Connections, PPM is more important than holding a branchline train so it can connect into a mainline one.
2. Direct services from Lincoln - West Midlands.
3. Reduction of trains use to be 10 trains per day between Grimsby and Lincoln now only 7!

For some reason DaFT who rubber stamp (or even order) the cutback seem to be less accountable than the BR board. At least we got a consulation when they cut the Humber-Lincs, even if they had already made the choice that running it made the ECML franchise too complicated! One thing for sure in the late 1980's the trains in Lincolnshire had a lot more passengers on them then they did at the end of the present boom. Maybe we should get worried as we have a lower base to fall back on and DaFT may start shutting lines down.

 

[Metroland]

If I'm honest, I'm fairly undecided against nationalisation. Like you, I just want a better railway. I'm just aware of what the attitude it towards paying for things in this country and BR always had to watch its budget. At the same time, I don't want private companies on the take because they no there is no risks.

There are some excellent examples of nationalised networks - German railways and Swiss Federal railways is something else, and every bit as good, if not better, than what we have here. Switzerland is especially interesting as a lot of the smaller lines are private too! I have sampled both, and was very impressed. If people haven't had a look, they should really get themselves over there to sample what a good national network can deliver.

There's also some excellent examples of national private networks, such as Japanese railways and the US freight system which carries 42% of US freight and gets no public subsidy.

In the end, I think its much to do with public attitudes (IE ending I don't use rail, why should I use it! - my answer to that is why should I fund your kids or granny waiting for a hip operation!) and good management.

 

[Aussie_Rail]

National Express eh? This wouldn't be the same National Express that operated one portion of Melbourne's train network as 'M>train' as well as V/line and bailed out in early 2004 would it?

I think they have a habbit of being uncommitted and when the going gets tough they run away.


AR

 

[Callufrax]

National Express eh? This wouldn't be the same National Express that operated one portion of Melbourne's train network as 'M>train' as well as V/line and bailed out in early 2004 would it?

I think they have a habbit of being uncommitted and when the going gets tough they run away.


AR

The very same, AR.

Though, I do remember reading an interview with Richard Bowker, stating that a franchise shouldn't be re-negotiated, should times get tough. This was when GNER was given notice to hand back their keys. I can't remember which magazine it was in, now. Possibly Rail.

 

[D841]

Switzerland is especially interesting as a lot of the smaller lines are private too!

The only private railway in Switzerland which makes any money is the Jungfrau Group (Berner Oberlandbahnen), which they do principally by commanding very high fares from Japanese tourists.

All of the private railways are owned in some part (usually the majority shareholding) by local, as opposed to national, Government and are therefore not private railways at all, viewed in the strictest sense.

 

[Metroland]

Sir Richard Branson, the Virgin Trains founder, could mount a bid for the east coast rail franchise amid fears that National Express is struggling with its £1.4bn contract for the prestigious London-to-Edinburgh route and might have to renegotiate terms with ministers.

The tycoon said Virgin Trains, which runs trains from London to Glasgow on the west coast route, was ready to make a new offer should it become available.

The National Express chief executive, Richard Bowker, launched his career under Branson at the Virgin group and the public transport operator did not conceal its irritation at the tycoon's remarks yesterday.

A spokeswoman for National Express East Coast said: "Given that Virgin West Coast is now rooted to the bottom of the long-distance train time-keeping league we shiver at the very thought of Richard Branson bringing his own unique version of 'success' to East Coast. We run Britain's premier long-distance railway and we intend to keep it that way.

However, an about-turn in government policy could frustrate Branson's ambitions. Renegotiation of rail franchises is prohibited by the Department for Transport (DfT) but there is widespread speculation within the industry that the DfT might waive its policy owing to exceptional economic circumstances.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/feb/03/rail-national-express-virgin

 

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A spokeswoman for National Express East Coast said: "Given that Virgin West Coast is now rooted to the bottom of the long-distance train time-keeping league we shiver at the very thought of Richard Branson bringing his own unique version of 'success' to East Coast. We run Britain's premier long-distance railway and we intend to keep it that way.

I think that is more to do with Network rail than Virgin, come on NEEC you are not that far ahead of them either and you both have your problems with Network rail and poor train regulation.

As for running Britains premier long-distance railway - as a customer I don't think that you will keep that title for long following your recent on-board service cutbacks. I never thought I would say it but i think Virgin is now the best operator for on-board service, following NEEC recent downgrading.

However, an about-turn in government policy could frustrate Branson's ambitions. Renegotiation of rail franchises is prohibited by the Department for Transport (DfT) but there is widespread speculation within the industry that the DfT might waive its policy owing to exceptional economic circumstances.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/feb/03/rail-national-express-virgin

I hope they don't as I have said on many previous posts the private operators have already fleaced us to much! You never heard any of them complaining in the good times about thier licence to print money....

 

[Guinness]

If National Express do go under and have to hand back Rail Franchises I can see perhaps a temporary Nationalisation in the way of NXEC/NXEA/c2c similar to the Connex Fiasco in early 2000s. At least until these supposed rounds of meetings about balancing the books with the other transport companies e.g. FirstGroup, Arriva, Govia etc..

Since Seacontainers went Tits up the mangement of the ECML has been complete shambles, from TOCs to Network Rail.

 

[djw1981]

True large flows from Newcastle / York for example, but does the passenger really gain much when you have a train at x:00 to London that stops at both these places and one at 0:05 to XC places. Even the AP fares are about the same. There is a lot of air-traffic to eat into, they just need a superior product to air - not to be trying to lower rails product to match it!


The private car I should say on the majority of journeys

Not on the ECML / WCML though.

Take
Edinburgh -Newcastle - 1h30 by train, 2h15 by car (minimum)
Newcastle - York - 1h by train, 1h30 by car.
Newcastle - London - 3h30 by train, 6-7hrs by car

WCML is similar. Granted the issue is that most people do not want to go city centre to city centre.

Thus whilst Glasgow - Newcastle is 2h45 (with connection at EDB), my jounry of Glasgow City - North Shields would take 3h30 minimum, and I can drive it in 3hrs (via Carlisle) or 3h30 (following the ECML).

 

[Bayum]

Not on the ECML / WCML though.

Take
Edinburgh -Newcastle - 1h30 by train, 2h15 by car (minimum)
Newcastle - York - 1h by train, 1h30 by car.
Newcastle - London - 3h30 by train, 6-7hrs by car

WCML is similar. Granted the issue is that most people do not want to go city centre to city centre.

Thus whilst Glasgow - Newcastle is 2h45 (with connection at EDB), my jounry of Glasgow City - North Shields would take 3h30 minimum, and I can drive it in 3hrs (via Carlisle) or 3h30 (following the ECML).

It doesnt take me that long to go door to door from my house 20 minutes away from york, to the Newcastle Infirmary... Takes about an hour, maybe an hour 30 in traffic

 

[djw1981]

Google maps says 1h49 (via A1(M)) or 1h57 via the (more sensible) A19.
Even starting from Walshford - level with York on A1(M) gives 1h26.
Dishforth is 1h15 via A1(M) or A19...but the A1 is always snarled up.

Speeding /driving fast might be how we do it, but shouldn't be used for comparison purposes.

 

[37401]

Doubtfull they will and back the franchise because of money national express is spending not saving, ive heard they have plans to put class 90`s on the ECML on there NXEC franchise.

 

[Metroland]

In the parliamentary evidence meeting (see main thread) the TOCs say:

- No TOCs have requested to reduce services
- No TOCs said they would be handing back franchises - Virgin were firm about that.
- The TOCs were quite surprised to read about the DfTs 'red light' franchises, and don't know what they are themselves. The Dft haven't even told the TOCs which franchises have been defined as red light.
- No TOC is in financial problems

 

[Flyboy]

Renegotiation of rail franchises is prohibited by the Department for Transport (DfT) but there is widespread speculation within the industry that the DfT might waive its policy owing to exceptional economic circumstances.

As I said earlier this was always going to be the case, should it be required, in the current economic climate.

 

[John_158]

I wish Ned-Serco would hand back Merseyrail Electrics and the N/West part of the Northern franchsie.

 

[37401]

I wish Ned-Serco would hand back Merseyrail Electrics and the N/West part of the Northern franchsie.

a great wish but sadly we all know its never gonna happen :cry:

 

[John_158]

a great wish but sadly we all know its never gonna happen :cry:

Not unless i win the Lottery !

 

[the nxec teller]

hi all im the nxec teller, i need to use this name as i work for the company and all i can say is that the staff have noticed all the talk.rumour has it the government has told nxec to hand the keys in due to the poor running of the east coast,ryan air has been said alot as have virgin.staff morale is at a low as i have seen it.staff dont know when they are coming or going.

 

[Donny Dave]

Seems strange the the government has allegedly told NXEC to hand the franchise back when NXEC themselves say there is no problems .... :?

 

[the nxec teller]

Seems strange the the government has allegedly told NXEC to hand the franchise back when NXEC themselves say there is no problems .... :?

its understood that nxec have already missed 2 payments so far, and the folk lift trucks were taken from them down at bounds green.make what you want with it.

 

[Metroland]

It's rubbish, franchises get several warnings before they have to hand franchises back and I'm aware of none, indeed, passenger satisfaction is up.

More stirring, disgraceful.

 

[Donny Dave]

Right, I've just had a quick look at some other forums I'm a member of, and there is no mention of NXEC being told to hand the franchise back anywhere.

So either you have some inside information that no one in the know has got hold of yet, or your talking complete bollocks. Which one is it?

 

[37401]

simular thing is happening with Virgin, they could be dumped by the DfT i found this off a google link hope its usefull

 

[Metroland]

Probably written by the same people that wrote the Guardian piece, which turned out to be complete rubbish as well, probably from a left wing mole in the DfT. As for NXEC, rumours fly round companies all the time, rarely there is any truth in it.

 

[90019]

as have virgin

This bit says that you're talking cr*p.

Virgin will not get the East Coast franchise while they still have the West Coast one, as this would mean they would have a monopoly on the two main Scotland-London routes, which the government would not allow.

if you really work for NXEC why are you posting here? Surely that's risking your job as there's probably a clause in your contract (if it exists) prohibiting you from spreading info like this.

Oh, and your spelling and grammer, and the way you use full stops without a space, implies that you're a lot younger than you say.


This seems suspiciously like the guy recently who claimed his job was something to do with maintainance on the railway, driving something (I forget what, exactly).

 

[paul1609]

I think the problem with NX may not be how they operate their trains or treat their staff but the companies share price which has fallen by 75% in the last year. Obviously in a recession you expect prices to fall but the FT 250 has fallen on average 38% and NX are by far the worst performers amoungst the rail bus companies. This is going to make it very hard (expensive) for NX to fund the franchise commitments or even just to keep going.

 

[Flyboy]

I for one would love to see what a "folk lift truck" looks like! :roll:

"ryan air has been said alot as have virgin" ........translator please!

Might I suggest we ignore the nxec teller.

 

[90019]

I for one would love to see what a "folk lift truck" looks like! :roll:

It's a special fork lift truck designed so you can lift folk singers and store them on high shelves.

It can also be used to put them in high places so you can't hear them

 

[Max]

But I doubt Branson would make such comments without any evidence at all, he's a pretty shrewd businessman after all. NXEC will not want to cause panic - remember, loss of consumer confidence leads to an even greater downward spiral in the economy. It wouldn't surprise me if NXEC was struggling with the premiums, they surely can't be deliverable in the current economic climate, even with huge cost cutting.

 

[GNERman]

I think another problem with NXEC is that they said that class 90's and Mk. 3's were to be brought in for extra capacity and nothing has happened.
It just shows that wat is said before the franchise starts doesn't always happen.
I don't like the livery either (sorry) as GNER's was always better.

Don't mean to offend anyone...