My idea for: Pacer - Thurso to Penzance

[Peter Mugridge]

We're going to have to make this tour Carlisle - Penzance due to the Pacer ban in Scotland.

They were tested on the Bathgate Line early on - I'm sure someone on here posted a picture or two a couple of years ago.

 

[tbtc]

They were tested on the Bathgate Line early on - I'm sure someone on here posted a picture or two a couple of years ago.

They were - 143s IIRC.

Plus, I think I've seen reference to them being used on Carlisle - Dumfries "shorts" in the past, but I could be wrong.

(obviously there's a big difference between being "banned" and "not being cleared because nobody has had to do the paperwork before because its never been a realistic possibility")

 

[gordonthemoron]

One of these presumably: http://www.pacerpreservationsociety.co.uk/uploads/1/0/5/2/10525174/6110324_orig.jpg

no, 2+2 seating with high backrests

 

[The Planner]

They are clear from Ayr to Kilmarnock to Gretna Jn and on to Carlisle as far as I can tell.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Once they've finished the Marmaris tunnel, could we not send a pacer all the way to Asia? It's the least they deserve (then we could send the rest)

 

[northwichcat]

Once they've finished the Marmaris tunnel, could we not send a pacer all the way to Asia? It's the least they deserve (then we could send the rest)

Iran decided the 141s were life expired and replaced them with new Korean DMUs so why would Asia want our life expired 142s?

 

[route:oxford]

How did 140001 get to Dufftown?

 

[PeterY]

Before we realise it, this trip could go ahead. I'm sure it'd be fully booked. because it'd be a one off and I've never ridden on a pacer either.

Be careful what we wish for.

 

[northwichcat]

Before we realise it, this trip could go ahead. I'm sure it'd be fully booked. because it'd be a one off and I've never ridden on a pacer either.

Be careful what we wish for.

In the early days of the Northern franchise they were happy to run excursions using pairs of 156s on Sundays as long as the excursion only used lines signed by Northern crews but as they started using units more intensively and requiring more units on Sundays they stopped being willing to do excursion trains.

 

[matchmaker]

Are pacers actually 'barred' from Scotland? I thought it was simply that Transport Scotland had barred them from operating scheduled services in Scotland- presumably at some point in the last decade or so they were worried about their better pre-privatisation units being cascaded South. In any case, I'd have thought an exception could be granted for a one-off railtour.

The bar is - or was - in the SA. My copy of this is pre-privatisation.

 

[starrymarkb]

A Pacer going at its design speed of 75mph for long periods (or its "real" top speed which is somewhere near 90mph!) is going to be an extremely rough ride and the noise would be so terrific you would have a headache after such a long period.

I've heard tales of 143s doing 90mph when attached to the back of a 158 when the driver (in the 158 obv) forgot. Apparently it was 'very lively' in the rear 2 coaches

 

[Polarbear]

My record with a 142 was 86 mph between Chester & Crewe just after they were introduced. The 142 was bright orange & the line speed limit at the time was 75 mph max..!!

Yep - it was lively...!!

 

[Butts]

Has anyone come up with a time for the journey yet , to give the survivors an idea of when their torment would be ended ?

Would it be over 10 hours ?

 

[Class172]

I hope your estimate is not factoring in any breakdowns, which are a certainty.

 

[marcouk2]

Why not break it into three parts? You could have a Northern 142 from Scotland to say Newcastle, change to a Northern 144 from there to Bristol and then have a FGW or ATW 143 for the final stretch.

 

[ECML180]

Why not break it into three parts? You could have a Northern 142 from Scotland to say Newcastle, change to a Northern 144 from there to Bristol and then have a FGW or ATW 143 for the final stretch.

I think that's quite a reasonable idea, solves the issue of winding up with a pacer displaced by most of a day if we could just displace a number by about 4 hours!

Staggering between the different units would be good for the circulation in what remains of our legs too!

 

[SkinnyDave]

I doubt it. Pacers have got very basic suspension & only two axles per vehicle. The ride is far smoother on a Voyager with its bogies and air bag suspension. Pacers are well known for giving drivers "bad backs" due to the rough ride

A Pacer going at its design speed of 75mph for long periods (or its "real" top speed which is somewhere near 90mph!) is going to be an extremely rough ride and the noise would be so terrific you would have a headache after such a long period.

Then there is the poor seating. You'd better hope it isn't a Pacer with its original "Bus" type seats, or worse still, the old Miseryrail "refurbished" examples.

A Pacer would not be able to tackle the Lickey incline on its own and the coupling is incompatible with the banking locomotive, so it would need a different route on the South to North trip.

I am going to be driving them on Severn Beach line soon I'll give my Osteopath advance warning

 

[Rich McLean]

I am going to be driving them on Severn Beach line soon I'll give my Osteopath advance warning

Currently, 143s are normally kept on the Exeter Services to Exmouth, Paignton and Barnstable

Severn Beech are normally 150s

 

[Tobbes]

This is such a complete nightmare, I'd have to do it if it were run. Having grown up on the comics that made it to Australia in the early 80s, in deference to the (utterly brilliant looking & sounding) "Skirl o' the Pipes" trips, I suppose that this Pacer jaunt would be "Squeal o' the Pipes".....

(Hat, coat, etc...)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think that's quite a reasonable idea, solves the issue of winding up with a pacer displaced by most of a day if we could just displace a number by about 4 hours!

Staggering between the different units would be good for the circulation in what remains of our legs too!

I'd assumed that this proposed (mis-)adventure would be a sort of 'farewell' to the pacer fleet maybe during the summer of 2019- so displacing them wouldn't be an issue. I also imagine that you'd need a 9 or 11-car formation in order to sell enough tickets to cover the costs!

Run 'em down to Penzance then an extra trip to Weymouth Quay so we can dump 'em in the sea!

 

[Carlisle]

They were - 143s IIRC.

Plus, I think I've seen reference to them being used on Carlisle - Dumfries "shorts" in the past, but I could be wrong.

(obviously there's a big difference between being "banned" and "not being cleared because nobody has had to do the paperwork before because its never been a realistic possibility")

I can remember the chocolate and cream coloured Skippers on the Barnstaple branch in the 80s which were 142s and I think Northern 142 s are allowed to Dumfries but to my knowledge it only happens very rarely if literally nothing else is available

 

[northwichcat]

I also imagine that you'd need a 9 or 11-car formation in order to sell enough tickets to cover the costs!

Weren't Pacers banned from travelling in formations longer than 8 car after problems occurred when moving Pacers from Northern to FGW?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Weren't Pacers banned from travelling in formations longer than 8 car after problems occurred when moving Pacers from Northern to FGW?

It wouldn't surprise me if there is such a rule, but equally it could just be a limit of 8 cabs in the formation, a bit like how 153s are classed as 2-cars because of there being 2 cabs (for TP&WS reasons IIRC), rather than being decided solely on the length in which case 12-car would be the limit using all 3-car 144s. I'd guess that such a rule wouldn't necessarily be non-negotiable for a one-off trip, much like the Scotland ban.

This is slightly off-topic, but doesn't really deserve it's own thread: Once the 142s (and possibly other pacers) are no longer needed or able to be used, would there be a case for NR or their maintenance contractors acquiring a few for use as track recording units/weedkiller units or whatever? Just a thought...

 

[Beveridges]

Pacers can run as 8 car max the rule applies to both depot and mainline movements.

 

[northwichcat]

This is slightly off-topic, but doesn't really deserve it's own thread: Once the 142s (and possibly other pacers) are no longer needed or able to be used, would there be a case for NR or their maintenance contractors acquiring a few for use as track recording units/weedkiller units or whatever? Just a thought...

I imagine Network Rail will have their eyes on converting the 150s for that purpose, given they aren't restricted as much as Pacers and they already have a 2 x 950s used as track assessment units, which are practically 150/1s.

 

[Beveridges]

150's are going to be available much later than 142's; I expect their withdrawal will be at least ten years later than the Pacers.


Having said that, do Network Rail even have any requirement for more Track Recording / Maintenance DMUs anyway ?

 

[ffm]

The best and simple answer to the thread title ......

"Is barking mad"

 

[Beveridges]

It's simply never going to happen. A "Pacer Farewell" will no doubt run in 2020 before they hit the scrap yard, probably with some sort of 8-car Pacer formation, but there's no way it's going to be running from Thurso to Penzance.

 

[Quakers Yard]

I'd do it for a laugh. How many stations could it stop en route if via HOWL, S&C, Ayrshire, Cumbrian coast and all other scenic loop lines on the way such as VoG, Weston etc?
Would take all day and night so how many times approx could the old Wessex passenger saloons announcement be heard at the valleys ratio of every third stop?
Dont forget your picnic either as there would not be any catering either!

 

[Butts]

It's simply never going to happen. A "Pacer Farewell" will no doubt run in 2020 before they hit the scrap yard, probably with some sort of 8-car Pacer formation, but there's no way it's going to be running from Thurso to Penzance.

Oh ye of little faith

Incidentally, how much would we charge for a ticket - or would people have to be bribed into completing the journey