My idea for a new DMU order for rural lines

[YorkshireBear]

The Paisley Canal is an interesting one. Whenever the infrequent freight service traverses the line they have to turn the power off!

 

[edwin_m]

It would mean dual voltage stock would be needed for most branch lines due to them joining mainlines at some point? For example, if Manchester to Holyhead/Llandudno gets AC electrification then Helsby will have AC electrification but Helsby-Ellesmere Port is a branch line.

Indeed. DC electrification of a branch becomes totally pointless if the main line is electrified with AC.

 

[ainsworth74]

The Paisley Canal is an interesting one. Whenever the infrequent freight service traverses the line they have to turn the power off!

Yeah that was quite a novel solution to keep the cost down.

 

[northwichcat]

The Paisley Canal is an interesting one. Whenever the infrequent freight service traverses the line they have to turn the power off!

Wouldn't like to see that on the Mid-Cheshire line then. The freight to the Tata Chemicals' Winnington works runs at a slower speed than passenger trains and runs close to the peak times for passenger trains - there's two return workings daily - a departure from the Winnington works to the Derbyshire Quarries at around 8:30am and an arrival at the Winnington works at around 5pm. And that's not the only freight on the line.

 

[HSTEd]

Most of the savings in that light rail study relate to the provision of telephone poles as supports and using trolleywire esque connections anyway.

No reason you couldn't apply that with 25kV.

 

[northwichcat]

Most of the savings in that light rail study relate to the provision of telephone poles as supports and using trolleywire esque connections anyway.

No reason you couldn't apply that with 25kV.

Would there by a maximum speed you can do with such overheads though?

Just thinking about my own local line if the trains reach 75mph on one section where there's a big gap between stations and with a minor track upgrade and electrification and the associated faster acceleration it could probably have something like a 323 running at it's top speed of 90mph.

 

[Greybeard33]

Wouldn't like to see that on the Mid-Cheshire line then. The freight to the Tata Chemicals' Winnington works runs at a slower speed than passenger trains and runs close to the peak times for passenger trains - there's two return workings daily - a departure from the Winnington works to the Derbyshire Quarries at around 8:30am and an arrival at the Winnington works at around 5pm. And that's not the only freight on the line.

I imagine that electrification of the Mid-Cheshire would be done to a standard (including gauge clearance works) that would allow electrically hauled freight trains to use it as far as Hartford Junction (e.g. for Trafford Park to Mossend Yard workings, to avoid going round via Wilmslow and Crewe) and include the Middlewich branch and the Heaton Norris to Guide Bridge line (to enable freight traffic between Stockport and Crewe to be routed this way, freeing up paths on the WCML between Wilmslow and Crewe).

Would there by a maximum speed you can do with such overheads though?

Just thinking about my own local line if the trains reach 75mph on one section where there's a big gap between stations and with a minor track upgrade and electrification and the associated faster acceleration it could probably have something like a 323 running at it's top speed of 90mph.

Conventional catenary could be used on the high speed section with trolley wire on the sub-60mph sections to reduce cost.

 

[Blindtraveler]

low cost or not I think wiring up a route say the WHL would never happen owing to the remote nature of such a huge pjrt of it! We've all seen a 66 come to the end of its life where it landed after derailing in an area with no road access, now swap that derailed 66 for a (underailed) cl317, suitably refurbed for the purpose and with a panto fitted which has just brought the wires down in a long single section?
Whoever is running Scotrail by then will have a big problem on there hands.

As to an rural DMU, I like the idea of the onboard facilities but agree with others 3 or 4 coaches for certain and SDO as a must. I still favour the idea of a 2nd Gen Pacer, crash worthy but using again a bus boddy supplied by any of the main manufacturers out there with the abilitty to have a panto fitted in future.

 

[HSTEd]

West Highland Line or Far North line could both be single end fed from Inverness if required, the low power demands of the route allowing you to make use of the permitted voltage drops in 25kV systems to get away with it, especially if you use autotransformers to step up the voltages on the northern systems.

With the rather low incidence of overbridges and tunnels on both routes, using appropriately specced equipment the cost would probably be far below average.
(And as to masts blocking views on the WHL.... there are rarely impressive views on both sides of the train at once right? just have the masts on the "less scenic" side at any particular point.

 

[Blindtraveler]

hadnt thought of that Edd, would be a case for that but still leavs you relient of diesel if summit goes wrong though.

 

[northwichcat]

Conventional catenary could be used on the high speed section with trolley wire on the sub-60mph sections to reduce cost.

You could do that but then it could be seen as short sightedness in the future if the same line needs more capacity/express services. I think 10 years ago we would have said that would be adequate for Chat Moss but not now there are plans for Scottish services and TPE services to use it.

 

[Greybeard33]

low cost or not I think wiring up a route say the WHL would never happen owing to the remote nature of such a huge pjrt of it! We've all seen a 66 come to the end of its life where it landed after derailing in an area with no road access, now swap that derailed 66 for a (underailed) cl317, suitably refurbed for the purpose and with a panto fitted which has just brought the wires down in a long single section?
Whoever is running Scotrail by then will have a big problem on there hands.

The Alps are criss-crossed by electrified lines running through more remote/inaccessible areas than any in Scotland. One even goes up the north face of the Eiger to the Jungfraujoch!

 

[ainsworth74]

The freight to the Tata Chemicals' Winnington works runs at a slower speed than passenger trains and runs close to the peak times for passenger trains - there's two return workings daily - a departure from the Winnington works to the Derbyshire Quarries at around 8:30am and an arrival at the Winnington works at around 5pm. And that's not the only freight on the line.

The key word was 'infrequent' obviously on lines where there are regular freight moves the Paisley Canal method wouldn't be appropriate.

 

[edwin_m]

As I understand it the freight terminal on the Canal line is not actually in use but there may be a use for it in the future. Hence the only current need to switch the power off is for engineering trains, which would probably be going to possessions on the route that needed the power turning off anyway. If the terminal is revived and needs frequent trains then money might be spent on improving the clearances.