Most Overspecced Train

[starrymarkb]

Which trains are/were most overspecced/overengineered for the work they do...

I'm not sure if we have anything quite so ludicrously over engineered as the french X72500

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/fr/diesel/dmu/X72500/misc/SNCF_72500_LR_Lunel_1.jpg

This 2 car DMU has SIX engines (4 for traction and 2 for hotel power) (a maintainance nightmare as you can imagine)

 

[Royston Vasey]

The 140 mph tilt-ready Intercity 225 anyone?? Though perhaps that's underuse rather than overspec!

 

[A60K]

No tilting equipment was ever fitted to either Class 91 or Mk4 stock, so it's not tilt-enabled. The Voyager stock that XC took on, and subsequently modified, did have tilt enabled although unused.

My vote would go to the approx 5,000hp 125mph trains used on the Newquay branch - what's the branch speed limit?

 

[The Planner]

Varies, from sections of 15mph up to 50mph, with lots of low speed level crossings. HSTs cant go above 25mph anywhere along it though. Mind you its either that or you have to join about 4 pacers to get the capacity...

 

[Royston Vasey]

In terms of permitted use in the UK, the Class 67 anyone? 125 mph capable but not enough wheels for the track to cope with it.

Actually given that the standard brakes can't cope with the Sleeper through the Highlands, and also because it stupidly hasn't got enough axles, you could probably claim equally that in some ways they're underspecced!

 

[Geezertronic]

The Voyager stock that XC took on, and subsequently modified, did have tilt enabled although unused

Just to clarify, the Super Voyager stock (Class 221) that XC took on did have tilt before they removed the components, and the Super Voyagers that Virgin Trains kept allegedly still run with tilt enabled and in use. The Voyagers (Class 220) did not have tilt.

 

[A60K]

Yes, sorry, thanks for the clarification - I forgot they are/were called *Super*Voyager! I did know that some of the stock was non-tilt, hence my reference to the modified stock

 

[route:oxford]

Just to clarify, the Super Voyager stock (Class 221) that XC took on did have tilt before they removed the components, and the Super Voyagers that Virgin Trains kept allegedly still run with tilt enabled and in use. The Voyagers (Class 220) did not have tilt.

Wasn't one of the first areas to be enabled with tilt (and at great expense) on the route between Oxford & Banbury? Is this section now "switched off" as only Cross Country Voyagers use it now?

 

[TEW]

Varies, from sections of 15mph up to 50mph, with lots of low speed level crossings. HSTs cant go above 25mph anywhere along it though. Mind you its either that or you have to join about 4 pacers to get the capacity...

Putting pacers on the Newquay branch wouldn't work, usually it is 150s or 153s.

 

[The Planner]

Same difference for the point I was making though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wasn't one of the first areas to be enabled with tilt (and at great expense) on the route between Oxford & Banbury? Is this section now "switched off" as only Cross Country Voyagers use it now?

I dont think it was ever switched on.

 

[paul1609]

Varies, from sections of 15mph up to 50mph, with lots of low speed level crossings. HSTs cant go above 25mph anywhere along it though. Mind you its either that or you have to join about 4 pacers to get the capacity...

I havent been down there this year but in the last five years every time Ive done the XC HSTs to newquay the passengers would have quite comfortably fitted in to a 153 let alone a pacer.

 

[TEW]

Same difference for the point I was making though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I dont think it was ever switched on.

They used tilt on that section under Virgin I believe but Cross Country have removed the tilt mechanisms from all there trains now so they could not tilt on that section anyway.

 

[The Planner]

They were never timed to tilt in the timetable.

 

[TEW]

That is because they couldn't guarantee a Class 221 on every service.

 

[kestrel]

class 92 would go down as the most overspecced locomotive effectively 2 loco's in one box!

eurostar is similaraily specced, 2units coupled together with 3 motor packs in each set!

 

[bluebottle]

class 92 would go down as the most overspecced locomotive effectively 2 loco's in one box!

eurostar is similaraily specced, 2units coupled together with 3 motor packs in each set!

But that's necessary for what they do, 92s need the redundancy in case of a failure in the tunnel and the 373s need the power to reach their top speed and provide enough oomph in one half set if the other half goes bang.

 

[Mojo]

The latest I've heard is that Eurotunnel are to drop the requirement for trains that can split in half.

 

[ukrob]

class 92 would go down as the most overspecced locomotive effectively 2 loco's in one box!

eurostar is similaraily specced, 2units coupled together with 3 motor packs in each set!

That doesn't make either of those examples over-specced though.

 

[alex57601]

But that's necessary for what they do, 92s need the redundancy in case of a failure in the tunnel and the 373s need the power to reach their top speed and provide enough oomph in one half set if the other half goes bang.

And in the case of the Eurostar sets, one half can be split off and continue on its own to Britain/France if there's an emergency/failure and the whole train cannot proceed.

I wouldn't say the 92s or the 373s are over-specced.

Does the use of Class 460s on the Gatwick Express services count as over-specced in terms of capacity per unit?

 

[Pumbaa]

Does the use of Class 460s on the Gatwick Express services count as over-specced in terms of capacity per unit?

I thought this myself previously. But, I have to admit, certainly during morning the services look very busy indeed. I do mean to travel on them one day to ascertain for sure.

 

[87015]

That is because they couldn't guarantee a Class 221 on every service.

What was the point in virgin ordering a fleet that only half could tilt then?

 

[Bayum]

What was the point in virgin ordering a fleet that only half could tilt then?

Why get the rest of the fleet all tilting, when only some of the routes can actually have tiliting on them?

 

[87015]

Why get the rest of the fleet all tilting, when only some of the routes can actually have tiliting on them?

Why have any tilting when you can't use it because the fleets not capable of being split effectively enough to be able to timetable some trains for tilt though?

 

[krus_aragon]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but tilting allows the trains to go faster. Even if the timetabling didn't assume that each train could travel at tilting speeds, the tilters could do so to regain lost time etc.

 

[The Planner]

That is what would have happened, but I dont think Banbury Oxford was ever EPS speed boarded.

 

[The Box Photter]

I know I'm raising a "golden oldie" but weren't Class 50s always described as over-specified, resulting in poor reliability. It would have been better just to order a fleet of 50 DP2s i.e. English-Electric 16CVST engine in a Deltic bodyshell, but no, BRB wanted loads of electronic gizmos and slow-speed-control to allow them to work MRG trains. It wasn't until they were refurbished at Doncaster and had all the useless gadgetry taken out that they became reasonably reliable.

Come to think of it, all the parts still exist to make a copy of DP2. "Borrow" a Deltic bodyshell, liberate an EE 16CSVT plus generator from a Class 50 and recycle the bogies from one of DBS's unwanted Class 37s. If the Tornado boys can build a kettle from scratch, somebody must have the ability to create DP2 v1.1 Then get it out on the main line and show everybody what could have been.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Not so much a train in themselves, but weren't the (aborted) Nightstar carriages for overnight Chunnel services overspecced to the point where they weighed too much for British tracks (with water tanks for all the ensuite bathrooms) and therefore needed electric locomotives that drained too much juice from the power lines...?

 

[lev441]

No tilting equipment was ever fitted to either Class 91 or Mk4 stock, so it's not tilt-enabled. The Voyager stock that XC took on, and subsequently modified, did have tilt enabled although unused.

My vote would go to the approx 5,000hp 125mph trains used on the Newquay branch - what's the branch speed limit?

The MK4 stock isnt tilt ready, but could easily be upgraded to tilt for 140mph running...

 

[jopsuk]

Not so much a train in themselves, but weren't the (aborted) Nightstar carriages for overnight Chunnel services overspecced to the point where they weighed too much for British tracks (with water tanks for all the ensuite bathrooms) and therefore needed electric locomotives that drained too much juice from the power lines...?

Think they were light enough for the tracks they were to operate over, but as I understand it to operate out from under the wires each rake would have been hauled by a pair of the 37s allocated to Eurostar sandwiching a generator car (for power to the carriages)

 

[O L Leigh]

Cl357's. A 100mph unit for a 75mph railway.

O L Leigh