Morecambe line

[Sox]

Noticed this short section of single track line, just east of Bare Lane station.

Seems a bit incongrous but is its primary use to facilitate the network of rails to the east as a turning triangle?

...and does it ever get used much in this respect?

 

[yorksrob]

I thought I read somewhere that the lines through Bare Lane were operated as separate reversible lines, which might explain the convergence on to one line.

 

[Elecman]

I thought I read somewhere that the lines through Bare Lane were operated as separate reversible lines, which might explain the convergence on to one line.

They are indeed treated as 2 separate single lines so yes the section of single track is needed there.

 

[Firesprite]

Used by trains carrying nuclear waste and fuel between Heysham 1 & 2 power stations and Sellafield Nuclear waste processing plant and fuel reprocessing site.

 

[yorksrob]

They are indeed treated as 2 separate single lines so yes the section of single track is needed there.

Many thanks for the confirmation !

 

[bradford758]

Ah, I think the op was referring to the Morecambe North Curve (Bare Lane- Carnforth).
Its former use was for Morecambe Promenade-Carnforth-Leeds trains (avoiding Lancaster) but around 30 years ago? services were diverted to run via Lancaster for connection with the main line. Of course the curve remains open, with a 'parliamentary' train. Not looked at the current timetable, but last year there was a Monday-Friday Lancaster-Morecambe-Leeds service and before that a Lancaster-Morecambe-Barrow ? train.

Sent from my 4009X using Tapatalk

 

[Mordac]

Ah, I think the op was referring to the Morecambe North Curve (Bare Lane- Carnforth).
Its former use was for Morecambe Promenade-Carnforth-Leeds trains (avoiding Lancaster) but around 30 years ago? services were diverted to run via Lancaster for connection with the main line. Of course the curve remains open, with a 'parliamentary' train. Not looked at the current timetable, but last year there was a Monday-Friday Lancaster-Morecambe-Leeds service and before that a Lancaster-Morecambe-Barrow ? train.

Sent from my 4009X using Tapatalk

It's this currently: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y03242/2017/04/24/advanced
(0546 Lancaster to Windermere with a reversal at Morecambe)

EDIT: And this as well http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y67952/2017/04/24/advanced (1605 Lancaster to Leeds)

 

[thenorthern]

As others have said after this point the two lines into Morecambe are effectively two separate single lines so if a train leaves Bare Line into Morecambe on Platform 1 it must return on Platform 1.

Its not ideal but its been the system used since the present station opened in 1994.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As others have said after this point the two lines into Morecambe are effectively two separate single lines so if a train leaves Bare Line into Morecambe on Platform 1 it must return on Platform 1.

Its not ideal but its been the system used since the present station opened in 1994.

Additionally, the Heysham spur is only accessible from the southernmost line into Morecambe.

 

[Sox]

It's this currently: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y03242/2017/04/24/advanced
(0546 Lancaster to Windermere with a reversal at Morecambe)

EDIT: And this as well http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y67952/2017/04/24/advanced (1605 Lancaster to Leeds)

Cheers for this, but how do you use the website to determine future services?

Or do they just advertise same with only 24 hours notice?

Most of these parliamentary services seem to leave you "stranded in the middle of nowhere"* but this one looks like it could be done on a reasonably handy (say) Lancaster-Kendal return?

*Thinking Stockport-Stalybridge and Chester-Runcorn.

 

[Mordac]

Cheers for this, but how do you use the website to determine future services?

Or do they just advertise same with only 24 hours notice?

Most of these parliamentary services seem to leave you "stranded in the middle of nowhere"* but this one looks like it could be done on a reasonably handy (say) Lancaster-Kendal return?

*Thinking Stockport-Stalybridge and Chester-Runcorn.

They're the same for the current timetable. I just had to pick a day to link.

Looking at Realtime Trains on June 01 suggests they stay the same after the May timetable change.

 

[berneyarms]

Cheers for this, but how do you use the website to determine future services?

Or do they just advertise same with only 24 hours notice?

Most of these parliamentary services seem to leave you "stranded in the middle of nowhere"* but this one looks like it could be done on a reasonably handy (say) Lancaster-Kendal return?

*Thinking Stockport-Stalybridge and Chester-Runcorn.

Just use the detailed search function for specific locations - there are lots of different filters that you can use to narrow down the search.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced

 

[QueensCurve]

Noticed this short section of single track line, just east of Bare Lane station.

Seems a bit incongrous but is its primary use to facilitate the network of rails to the east as a turning triangle?

...and does it ever get used much in this respect?

It is the line to bare lane for Hest Bank thence Carnforth from where you could go on to Barrow or Leeds. I believe presently has a Parliamentary passenger service. I traveled on it once many years ago.

They are indeed treated as 2 separate single lines so yes the section of single track is needed there.

There is an alternative layout that would have two crossovers between the two lines. That would allow parallel movements to Hest Bank and from Lancaster. That would have 4 point ends rather than 2 therefore such layouts are out of favour where the capacity is not needed.

Used by trains carrying nuclear waste and fuel between Heysham 1 & 2 power stations and Sellafield Nuclear waste processing plant and fuel reprocessing site.

Irradiated Nuclear fuel to be precise.

 

[janb]

I have ridden the north curve a couple of times, neither as part of a scheduled service, 1st time on a train from Carnforth where we diverted round a points/signalling problem, and 2nd time from Carnforth direction because the 153 was at the rear of the 150 from Leeds instead of in front and it needed to be dropped off at Lancaster so used the triangle to turn the train round.

 

[thenorthern]

Generally trains at both Morecambe and Bare Lane use platform 1 at both stations and I think its normally only some trains from Leeds, the Heysham train and the nuclear trains that use Platform 2 at both stations.

Additionally, the Heysham spur is only accessible from the southernmost line into Morecambe.

Yes and the points themselves are operated by the driver I think.

 

[Sox]

Just use the detailed search function for specific locations - there are lots of different filters that you can use to narrow down the search.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced

Hmm, there doesn't seem any ability to do a date range search (only individual days).

...or have I missed something?

 

[berneyarms]

Hmm, there doesn't seem any ability to do a date range search (only individual days).

...or have I missed something?

You can only search for a specific date. But to be fair most trains operate either Monday-Friday, Saturdays or Sundays across the length of the timetable period.

However, there is more info available:

Assuming you're using your desktop, when you get the results, click on the individual train ID, and look at the top left and the second line gives you the period of operation for that train.

If using a mobile, click on a train and then "Show service details" at the top and the same info becomes available.

Alternatively, if you are looking for parliamentary passenger services across the network, the following website is great for them:
http://www.psul4all.free-online.co.uk/intro.htm

Scroll down to halfway to select the service period.

 

[Sox]

You can only search for a specific date. But to be fair most trains operate either Monday-Friday, Saturdays or Sundays across the length of the timetable period.

However, there is more info available:

Assuming you're using your desktop, when you get the results, click on the individual train ID, and look at the top left and the second line gives you the period of operation for that train.

If using a mobile, click on a train and then "Show service details" at the top and the same info becomes available.

Alternatively, if you are looking for parliamentary passenger services across the network, the following website is great for them:
http://www.psul4all.free-online.co.uk/intro.htm

Scroll down to halfway to select the service period.

Cheers for info Berneyarms

 

[thenorthern]

Of course until 1962 the line from Lancaster to Morecambe via Bare Lane used to go into Morecambe Euston Road station. Also there was the line from Lancaster Green Ayre to Morecambe which closed in 1966 which used a much more direct route and was also electrified but given that British Rail decided that Lancaster Green Ayre was closing and they didn't want to have to pay to divert the electrified line into Lancaster Castle (now Lancaster Station) the more direct electrified line closed. The current route is about 4.3 miles but as the crow flies is 2.8 miles.

The present Morecambe station opened in 1994 an I heard a rumour that because the layout was installed when the British Rail infrastructure was being transferred to Railtrack PLC it meant that it wasn't built properly hence why now it has two platforms that are not connected, I don't know if this is true or not.

 

[Tomnick]

The present Morecambe station opened in 1994 an I heard a rumour that because the layout was installed when the British Rail infrastructure was being transferred to Railtrack PLC it meant that it wasn't built properly hence why now it has two platforms that are not connected, I don't know if this is true or not.

I don't think that's true. The layout as designed, with two independent single lines beyond Bare Lane, allowed the operation of the branch to be simplified and the closure of the signal box at Morecambe whilst retaining the flexibility to have one train to/from Heysham (on one line) whilst still allowing a second to run to Morecambe only (on the other). Seems quite deliberate to me.

 

[Ianno87]

I don't think that's true. The layout as designed, with two independent single lines beyond Bare Lane, allowed the operation of the branch to be simplified and the closure of the signal box at Morecambe whilst retaining the flexibility to have one train to/from Heysham (on one line) whilst still allowing a second to run to Morecambe only (on the other). Seems quite deliberate to me.

I'm sure it was a deliberate rationalisation to save operating cost.

While Bare Lane box was still open (closed 2013, I think), each single track from there to Morecambe had I believe some sort of token arrangement. Being operated in effect as two independent parallel single line token sections. On the southern 'Heysham' track, this also allows the train crew to operate ground frame at Morecambe for the points to/from Heysham, plus the run-round loop at Morecambe station (necessary for loco hauled trains, including the nuclear flasks). This avoided the cost of powering/motorising the points.

Not sure how the token works now that Bare Lane box has gone (into Preston PSB)

 

[thenorthern]

With the Leeds trains running through to Morecambe rather than terminating at Lancaster I am told that its because previously with the Little North Western Railway the Leeds trains went Wennington - Lancaster Green Ayre - Morecambe and then after that closed and the trains were diverted via Carnforth the services continued to run through to Morecambe just simply because thats what they had always done.

Not sure how the token works now that Bare Lane box has gone (into Preston PSB)

Is there still a token on the branch? Only because with the nuclear trains I would have thought it would have made the token system difficult.

 

[yorksrob]

With the Leeds trains running through to Morecambe rather than terminating at Lancaster I am told that its because previously with the Little North Western Railway the Leeds trains went Wennington - Lancaster Green Ayre - Morecambe and then after that closed and the trains were diverted via Carnforth the services continued to run through to Morecambe just simply because thats what they had always done.



Is there still a token on the branch? Only because with the nuclear trains I would have thought it would have made the token system difficult.

I believe there's a long history of people from West Yorkshire (Bradford in particular) holidaying in Morecambe.

 

[Grumpy]

I believe there's a long history of people from West Yorkshire (Bradford in particular) holidaying in Morecambe.

There aren't any through trains from Bradford to Morecambe. And with regard to travelling to the major destination, Lancaster,given that a change is necessary then travelling from the Interchange and changing at Preston offers a more frequent and comfortable journey

 

[30907]

I believe there's a long history of people from West Yorkshire (Bradford in particular) holidaying in Morecambe.

And in the mid 60s when the Green Ayre route closed Bradford-on-Sea was still popular - indeed I've spotted Morecambe-bound passengers with suitcases at Shipley much more recently....

It was, I think, in RR days that someone cottoned onto the idea of running most of the trains to Lancaster - and as RRNE and RRNW were separate units, there was a period when even Morecambe via Lancaster couldn't be managed. Thankfully that, at least, is Past!

 

[thenorthern]

There aren't any through trains from Bradford to Morecambe. And with regard to travelling to the major destination, Lancaster,given that a change is necessary then travelling from the Interchange and changing at Preston offers a more frequent and comfortable journey

And in the mid 60s when the Green Ayre route closed Bradford-on-Sea was still popular - indeed I've spotted Morecambe-bound passengers with suitcases at Shipley much more recently....

It was, I think, in RR days that someone cottoned onto the idea of running most of the trains to Lancaster - and as RRNE and RRNW were separate units, there was a period when even Morecambe via Lancaster couldn't be managed. Thankfully that, at least, is Past!

Occasionally when the line beyond Shipley into Leeds is closed the train start and terminate at Bradford Forster Square.

I think the last regular through trains from Bradford beyond Skipton were in the 1990s.

I do know in the early days of privatisation the through trains were operated by Arriva although the Lancaster to Morecambe shuttle was operated by First North Western. In those days the trains to Heysham Port were also operated by First North Western but only ran as far as Lancaster but then there were 2 trains per day.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040718221931/http://www.arrivatrainsnorthern.co.uk:80/pdfs/a6.pdf Arriva Time Table

http://web.archive.org/web/20031010...stern.co.uk:80/timetables/winter2003/tt18.pdf First North Western timetable

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Yes and the points themselves are operated by the driver I think.

Manual switches to the Heysham branch by Timothy Young, on Flickr

 

[Tomnick]

I'm sure it was a deliberate rationalisation to save operating cost.

While Bare Lane box was still open (closed 2013, I think), each single track from there to Morecambe had I believe some sort of token arrangement. Being operated in effect as two independent parallel single line token sections. On the southern 'Heysham' track, this also allows the train crew to operate ground frame at Morecambe for the points to/from Heysham, plus the run-round loop at Morecambe station (necessary for loco hauled trains, including the nuclear flasks). This avoided the cost of powering/motorising the points.

Not sure how the token works now that Bare Lane box has gone (into Preston PSB)

My understanding is that, previously, both single lines from Bare Lane were worked as OTW, the Heysham line with a staff (with a key attached to work the GFs at Morecambe and Heysham) and the Morecambe line without. Now, it seems that they're both OTW without staff, but with a key released (by Preston PSB) from an instrument at Morecambe to release the ground frames there and at Heysham.

 

[yorksrob]

There aren't any through trains from Bradford to Morecambe. And with regard to travelling to the major destination, Lancaster,given that a change is necessary then travelling from the Interchange and changing at Preston offers a more frequent and comfortable journey

Yes, but historically there were through trains from Bradford to Morecambe. The link between the Little North Western (albeit from another part of West Yorkshire) survives from this time.

 

[yorksrob]

And in the mid 60s when the Green Ayre route closed Bradford-on-Sea was still popular - indeed I've spotted Morecambe-bound passengers with suitcases at Shipley much more recently....

It was, I think, in RR days that someone cottoned onto the idea of running most of the trains to Lancaster - and as RRNE and RRNW were separate units, there was a period when even Morecambe via Lancaster couldn't be managed. Thankfully that, at least, is Past!

Indeed. When travelling on the route these days, there still seem to be quite a few travelling 'through' Lancaster towards Morecambe.